Leica's plans for M8 REVEALED!!! [double post]

aizan

aizan

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Just kidding. This was my rainy day project. You can't really read the text I've written in the margins (can't really see them in the original either), so here's the gist of what's going on. The M8 is sort of like the R8/9 with digital module in that it does both film and digital. How the digital back and body are integrated allows for forward compatability and upgradability, etc. I didn't draw it, but the digital back would have a door over the film canister well, which doubles as a battery compartment. Slots for memory and wires would be on the other side. In the center, there is some arrangement of buttons around a screen. I'm thinking about a built-in shade for the screen, like in Graflexes.

Moving along, this camera uses the shutter from the M7 with a flash synch of 125th, or a square 60th. No more of this 50th nonsense. Viewfinder readout is like the Bessa R3a, and likewise has a 1:1 viewfinder with manually selected 35/50/90 framelines (so you only need one adapter). I never cared for the frameline preview doohicky and you might as well save some pennies. The eyepiece will be large enough for glass wearers to see the 35mm FLs. Also, there will be screw-in .8x and .58x eyepieces that'll knock those FLs down to 28/40/75 and 21/28/50, respectively.

If you think the camera looks a lot like the Zeiss Ikon, that's just because they're both descended from the Leica CL. The back is curved for the palm, the front is more angled for the fingers...it's a stroke of genius that Konica missed out on. The rewind knob is inspired by the Bessa R3a, Canon F-1n, and knob wind Ms. It's pointing out just for show; in use, it'd be turned to either side to avoid snags. The frameline selector on the back is also from the Canon F-1n, as is the shutter button (Switch left=self timer (you've wanted one of those, perhaps?), center=off, right=on. Half depress is AE lock in AE mode, meter in manual.), advance lever (with buttery smooth advance, and not as tall, but same solid stand-off detent), frame counter (numbered by fours, dots in between), and film plane mark. The shutter speed dial is from the ZI. The bottom would look like the Canon F-1n, with whatever additions and modifications are needed for a trigger winder.

Not original, but I think it looks good. Brings back Leica's most modern design, the CL, adds a few touches from other favorite cameras, and tweaks it into a full-fledged system body that I guess might keep Leica in business long enough to make a camera that uses optical data technology.

I posted this on PN, too. Couldn't resist!
 
I think you are showing more innovation than Leica's designers and engineers. Perhaps they should hire you. :)
 
You really want it to be a hybrid, doing both film and digital? I'm really more the kind that would go with either film or digital. The R-D1 shows IMO the way Leica should go with a digital M (having gone the hybrid-way with the R-series already). They could leave out the (p)review screen on the back if they'd go with a good auto white balance (not the one Canon is using). And full frame would be nice too, though probably making it even more prohibitive.
 
Maybe it doesn't need color preview, but there should be a color LCD big enough to display a histogram, incredibly useful. I'm inclined to think there's not enough room in the body for both the mechanical film handling parts AND the digital-capture parts, so separate bodies for film and digital would be most efficient.
 
I don't have a digital camera that displays a histogram, but I regularly adjust the overall histogram in my post-scanning software.

But I've been reading (at Luminous Landscape for instance) about how the camera histogram is the most useful light-meter display ever. It shows you the distribution of light and dark throughout the image, showing you the over-all contrast range. And you can see if you're losing shadow detail or clipping highlights, giving you an opportunity to adjust the exposure for the next shot to compensate. Ideally you can see histogram curves for each of the three colors...
 
ahem! But it needs to accept in-the-front tele- and wide angle converter lenses! as well as fisheyes. They are very important.

Sorry, aizan, i'm not making fun of you, i actually like your efforts:)
 
a lens would've taken too much space on the paper!

i don't know what's involved in making a digital camera go. what's in there anyway? and if it's a difficult problem to fit it all in a compact back, and leica solves it, their bragging rights are so much the greater! how do digital cameras do the histogram or preview thing, anyway?

in any case, i think digital backs are the way to go to preserve the camera's long term value and reduce the cost of keeping up to date. instead of getting a $4000 canon, get the latest $2000 back.

this could happen if leica makes a new category of products: "not jewelery". it'd have to be different from the m7 and mp. it needs to leave the "mechanically perfect" stuff alone. i was hesitant about calling my sketch m8. i couldn't think of a good name. cl stands for compact leica, so i thought maybe dl (digital or dual leica, too dull, remind me of downloading) or hl (hybrid leica, hellish!). dm for dual m is dumb. md, you're kidding! if not two letters, what other letter could start a new m-mount series? n for new, next? n1...sounds good enough for me. where's my eraser...?

thanks for the kudos, not that i'm going to take this seriously after it stops raining. i'm not even sure why i'm concerned about leica...or if i'm concerned at all. i think i just want a neat camera.
 
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RML said:
Never understood the use of a histogram. :confused:
Click to expand...

It's a graph that shows the distribution of brightness values in the image. The horizontal axis is the brightness, with black at the left end and white at the right end. The vertical axis shows how much of each particular value there is in the image.

It's exactly as if you made millions of densitometer readings off a negative, and then graphed the results. ("This image has 200,000 points that are 23% gray... 163,000 points that are 24% gray..." etc.)

A "normal" image should have some white and black values, with most of the values clustering toward the middle gray values. This will make a histogram that looks like a rounded mound, with the highest point in the center.

If the image has significant amounts of light and dark areas, you'll also see "peaks" toward the left and right of the center.

If you want to create a light, "high key" image, you adjust the exposure so that the entire histogram "mound" moves toward the right. If you want a dark, dramatic image, you adjust the exposure so it moves toward the left.

But if you shift it so far that part of the mound is cut off at the end at the end of the graph, it means your image is under- or over-exposed, and highlight or shadow tones are being "clipped" (eliminated.) It tells you that you need to change the exposure to get the mound more back toward the center.

So, a histogram is just a graphical way of representing all the exposure values of the image individually, rather than lumping them into a single-number average. It's a pretty convenient way to control exposures once you get used to how it looks.
 
I like the idea of the digital back door, maybe they could incorporate a combination film door/ drop in (film)canister that would be backwards compatible, allowing M3-M7 use, now there's a dollar to made!
There was a company a few years back that had designed a drop in digital film component, looked like a roll of film with the leader pulled out 2-3 inches. If I remember the company was Foveon?? It never came to fruition due to lack of design/funding.

Todd
 
JLW, you've explained it very clearly! Thanks.

I still fail to see the actual use, though. When I use an internal meter it already indicates under/over exposure so I can adjust it, and see the dial/LED move in the right direction. Seems to me I don't need yet another confirmation of the adjustment I made. But, most likely, I'm missing the point here, right? :)

Todd, it was called digital film (IIRC, the company was called the same way). I really would have loved to see it work but nothing ever came of it.
 
RML said:
JLW, you've explained it very clearly! Thanks.

I still fail to see the actual use, though. When I use an internal meter it already indicates under/over exposure so I can adjust it, and see the dial/LED move in the right direction. Seems to me I don't need yet another confirmation of the adjustment I made. But, most likely, I'm missing the point here, right? :)

Todd, it was called digital film (IIRC, the company was called the same way). I really would have loved to see it work but nothing ever came of it.
Click to expand...

Because digital seems to blow highlights you'll want to keep the histogram reading toward the middle and not stacked up on the right, otherwise you might lose detail in the highlights. Very useful once you use it a while.

Thanks for the correction on the "digital film", it would have been very useful!

Todd
 
Todd.Hanz said:
I like the idea of the digital back door, maybe they could incorporate a combination film door/ drop in (film)canister that would be backwards compatible, allowing M3-M7 use, now there's a dollar to made!
There was a company a few years back that had designed a drop in digital film component, looked like a roll of film with the leader pulled out 2-3 inches. If I remember the company was Foveon?? It never came to fruition due to lack of design/funding.

Todd
Click to expand...

Also known as VAPORWARE.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,49326,00.html
http://www.siliconfilm.com/

The main problem is getting sensor "that" thin to fit between the film plane and shutter window. Someone from Canon had a Q&A last year at university, I asked if they would make such and item. He said 'no', why should they make such and item what would effectively kill off their digital camera line up.
Good point... well for them, not us.

If the R8 or R9 wasn't so stupidly expensive, I'd consider a R8/9 with Digital-Module-R rather than a Nikon or Canon DSLR.

Stu :)
 
Good thinking.

Let's keep at it to show Leica that there is enough interest to keep them going at it.

Meanwhile, some of us can shoot film with our Ms ... and digital with our M glass ... on an RD-1. ';)'
Which has a nice LCD and a histogram to review if you want. Or you can turn it around and shoot without it if you want.
 
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