gyuribacsi
Established
Hallo to all and excuse my dumb questions.
I want to make night photography, specially now in winter. I was out last nigt to take some photos. I set the filmspeed to 400 ISO and f-stop to 8. My meter told me LV zero. I tried to set the speed up to the max. 3200 ISO and the f-stop down to 1 but the meter said LV zero. What can I do, estimate the exposure time? And what´s about Mr. Schwarzschild.
How do you achieve an approx. correct exposure setting.
Thanks for your helpful answers.
George
I want to make night photography, specially now in winter. I was out last nigt to take some photos. I set the filmspeed to 400 ISO and f-stop to 8. My meter told me LV zero. I tried to set the speed up to the max. 3200 ISO and the f-stop down to 1 but the meter said LV zero. What can I do, estimate the exposure time? And what´s about Mr. Schwarzschild.
How do you achieve an approx. correct exposure setting.
Thanks for your helpful answers.
George
gekopaca
French photographer
You might use a good external meter (Lunasix?)
You may use braketting exposures too.
You may use braketting exposures too.
daniel buck
Established
I'd try and read up on the "reciprocity failure" of your particular film. I used to do some long exposures with black and white. I believe Kodak used to have .pdf information on their professional films, that had some good starting points for calculating exposure compensation for long exposures.
I've found that once you get up into exposures longer than just a few minutes, there is alot of leeway. On a 10 minute exposure, the difference of an additional minute or two won't really make that much difference. And for a 2 hour exposure, and additional 20 minutes will not make that much difference. For a 2 hour exposure, to be one stop brighter, you might need to add an additional 1.5 hours.
Meters (at least the ones I'm familiar with) do not take into account reciprocity failure, and it's different from one brand or line of film to the next. Some are better than others.
If you are outside shooting long exposure night scenes, and the moon is out, you can guestemate a good exposure based on how full the moon is, I believe I've seen some websites that offer good starting points for long exposures with the moon as the primary light source. What type of stuff are you shooting? You may need to invest in a light meter that is more sensitive (I don't know of any suggestions for this, sorry) or just start guessing.
For times when it's to dark to meter but not completely dark, if you have a spot meter you can sometimes still meter on the very brightest parts of the scene, then you can place that value at the very brightest part of your image, and then calculate the exposure from there. But once it gets to dark to meter on even the brightest highlights, then it's just up to guessing. After a while, you'll get good at guessing. But if it's a shot you know you want to get, best bracket a few different exposures. I usually start my first exposure a stop or two shorter shorter than I think it needs to be, do another one right where I think it needs, and then do one a stop or two brighter than I think it needs. Usually my darker exposure is never bright enough, usually the exposure I guessed at is ok, and the brighter one is alot of times better still (but sometimes still not bright enough)
This was a 2-3 hour exposure (I don't even know the exact amount of time, I just took a wild guess and left the shutter open for several hours) at F8 I believe (wide open for that particular lens), on 4x5 Tri-x 320. If I were to have been having more of the ground in frame, the exposure would be to dark. But luckly enough, I was mostly shooting just the stars. The ground would have probably needed several more stops, probably a 6-8 hour exposure, and/or or a wider aperture lens.
Something like this shot below, it was two dark to meter on the ground, it just gave me a reading of zero no matter where I pointed it. but the sky was just bright enough to meter for, so I got that exposure and made it my highlight exposure. The meter read it out as middle grey, so I added probably 3 stops to whatever the meter told me(which would make my sky a bright value in the picture, not counting reciprocity, and then hopfully have my ground me a dark or a medium value), and then left it open another additional stop or two (twice or 4 times the length of time) to roughly compensate for reciprocity failure. This was a 4 minute exposure in the end, shooting wide open at f3.5 I believe (a fast lens for an 8x10 camera) 8x10 Tri-x 320. The negative was still not as dense as I'd like it to be, so I had to boost it up a bit in the scanning. I probably did not compensate enough for reciprocity. It's always a little bit of a guessing game
I've found that once you get up into exposures longer than just a few minutes, there is alot of leeway. On a 10 minute exposure, the difference of an additional minute or two won't really make that much difference. And for a 2 hour exposure, and additional 20 minutes will not make that much difference. For a 2 hour exposure, to be one stop brighter, you might need to add an additional 1.5 hours.
Meters (at least the ones I'm familiar with) do not take into account reciprocity failure, and it's different from one brand or line of film to the next. Some are better than others.
If you are outside shooting long exposure night scenes, and the moon is out, you can guestemate a good exposure based on how full the moon is, I believe I've seen some websites that offer good starting points for long exposures with the moon as the primary light source. What type of stuff are you shooting? You may need to invest in a light meter that is more sensitive (I don't know of any suggestions for this, sorry) or just start guessing.
For times when it's to dark to meter but not completely dark, if you have a spot meter you can sometimes still meter on the very brightest parts of the scene, then you can place that value at the very brightest part of your image, and then calculate the exposure from there. But once it gets to dark to meter on even the brightest highlights, then it's just up to guessing. After a while, you'll get good at guessing. But if it's a shot you know you want to get, best bracket a few different exposures. I usually start my first exposure a stop or two shorter shorter than I think it needs to be, do another one right where I think it needs, and then do one a stop or two brighter than I think it needs. Usually my darker exposure is never bright enough, usually the exposure I guessed at is ok, and the brighter one is alot of times better still (but sometimes still not bright enough)
This was a 2-3 hour exposure (I don't even know the exact amount of time, I just took a wild guess and left the shutter open for several hours) at F8 I believe (wide open for that particular lens), on 4x5 Tri-x 320. If I were to have been having more of the ground in frame, the exposure would be to dark. But luckly enough, I was mostly shooting just the stars. The ground would have probably needed several more stops, probably a 6-8 hour exposure, and/or or a wider aperture lens.
Something like this shot below, it was two dark to meter on the ground, it just gave me a reading of zero no matter where I pointed it. but the sky was just bright enough to meter for, so I got that exposure and made it my highlight exposure. The meter read it out as middle grey, so I added probably 3 stops to whatever the meter told me(which would make my sky a bright value in the picture, not counting reciprocity, and then hopfully have my ground me a dark or a medium value), and then left it open another additional stop or two (twice or 4 times the length of time) to roughly compensate for reciprocity failure. This was a 4 minute exposure in the end, shooting wide open at f3.5 I believe (a fast lens for an 8x10 camera) 8x10 Tri-x 320. The negative was still not as dense as I'd like it to be, so I had to boost it up a bit in the scanning. I probably did not compensate enough for reciprocity. It's always a little bit of a guessing game
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gyuribacsi
Established
Thank you for your answers!
@gekopaca
I´m using two meters a Gossen Digisix and a Pentax Spotmeter. Both told me LV=Zero
@Daniel Buck
Thanks for your pictures. I have learned, that my quess (two minutes at f8) was a massive underexposure.
Well, I have to learn to quess the exposure time in different nightly ambients. And I have to waiste a lot of film by doing it.
Thank you for teching me.
George
@gekopaca
I´m using two meters a Gossen Digisix and a Pentax Spotmeter. Both told me LV=Zero
@Daniel Buck
Thanks for your pictures. I have learned, that my quess (two minutes at f8) was a massive underexposure.
Well, I have to learn to quess the exposure time in different nightly ambients. And I have to waiste a lot of film by doing it.
Thank you for teching me.
George
oftheherd
Veteran
I'd try and read up on the "reciprocity failure" of your particular film. I used to do some long exposures with black and white. I believe Kodak used to have .pdf information on their professional films, that had some good starting points for calculating exposure compensation for long exposures.
I've found that once you get up into exposures longer than just a few minutes, there is alot of leeway. On a 10 minute exposure, the difference of an additional minute or two won't really make that much difference. And for a 2 hour exposure, and additional 20 minutes will not make that much difference. For a 2 hour exposure, to be one stop brighter, you might need to add an additional 1.5 hours.
Meters (at least the ones I'm familiar with) do not take into account reciprocity failure, and it's different from one brand or line of film to the next. Some are better than others.
If you are outside shooting long exposure night scenes, and the moon is out, you can guestemate a good exposure based on how full the moon is, I believe I've seen some websites that offer good starting points for long exposures with the moon as the primary light source. What type of stuff are you shooting? You may need to invest in a light meter that is more sensitive (I don't know of any suggestions for this, sorry) or just start guessing.
For times when it's to dark to meter but not completely dark, if you have a spot meter you can sometimes still meter on the very brightest parts of the scene, then you can place that value at the very brightest part of your image, and then calculate the exposure from there. But once it gets to dark to meter on even the brightest highlights, then it's just up to guessing. After a while, you'll get good at guessing. But if it's a shot you know you want to get, best bracket a few different exposures. I usually start my first exposure a stop or two shorter shorter than I think it needs to be, do another one right where I think it needs, and then do one a stop or two brighter than I think it needs. Usually my darker exposure is never bright enough, usually the exposure I guessed at is ok, and the brighter one is alot of times better still (but sometimes still not bright enough)
This was a 2-3 hour exposure (I don't even know the exact amount of time, I just took a wild guess and left the shutter open for several hours) at F8 I believe (wide open for that particular lens), on 4x5 Tri-x 320. If I were to have been having more of the ground in frame, the exposure would be to dark. But luckly enough, I was mostly shooting just the stars. The ground would have probably needed several more stops, probably a 6-8 hour exposure, and/or or a wider aperture lens.
Something like this shot below, it was two dark to meter on the ground, it just gave me a reading of zero no matter where I pointed it. but the sky was just bright enough to meter for, so I got that exposure and made it my highlight exposure. The meter read it out as middle grey, so I added probably 3 stops to whatever the meter told me(which would make my sky a bright value in the picture, not counting reciprocity, and then hopfully have my ground me a dark or a medium value), and then left it open another additional stop or two (twice or 4 times the length of time) to roughly compensate for reciprocity failure. This was a 4 minute exposure in the end, shooting wide open at f3.5 I believe (a fast lens for an 8x10 camera) 8x10 Tri-x 320. The negative was still not as dense as I'd like it to be, so I had to boost it up a bit in the scanning. I probably did not compensate enough for reciprocity. It's always a little bit of a guessing game
That sure is an interesting star trail photo. How did you manage to get two opposing arc star trails?
FrankS
Registered User
Last winter I took some pictures at night of a steet-light lit snowy street. With 400 speed film, a good exposure in this situation was 45sec @ f8.
Are you in a rural, urban, or wilderness setting? Moon-lit or artificial light?
Are you in a rural, urban, or wilderness setting? Moon-lit or artificial light?
oftheherd
Veteran
Good as it may be, I think the Pentax is a CDS cell meter. It may not be as sensitive as you need. I think the Lunisix was the European name for the Luna Pro here in the USA. It is good for low light (hence its name), but the Luna Pro SBC is better. By its name, it has silicon blue cells. They are more sensitve in low light, and don't have a memory. There is also a true spot meter attachment for the SBC, but it adds greatly to the cost. Only you can decide if it is worthwhile.
For star trails, unless you are trying to get ground portions, it is of no consequence, since the stars are point light sources.
delft
Established
LV zero would mean 1s at f/1 at ISO 100, so 1/15 at f/1.4 at ISO 3200, or EV 5 at ISO 3200.
( Or am I off by one?).
( Or am I off by one?).
gyuribacsi
Established
Thank you for your very helpful answers.
@FrankS
I´m in an urban setting an you hint 45 sec an f8 is very helpful for braketing.
@delft
Sorry, but I don´t think LV zero can be more than zero. My Gossen Digisix gave me an "ERR" an the display, the Pentax Digital Spotmeter LV 0,00 and the D300 Nikon showed up an "LO" (more than 15 sec.
But I´m like terrier dogs an stifling in this topic till there is an usable result. I´m learning and thats very fine for me (with a 63 years head).
Thank you again for teaching me!
George
@FrankS
I´m in an urban setting an you hint 45 sec an f8 is very helpful for braketing.
@delft
Sorry, but I don´t think LV zero can be more than zero. My Gossen Digisix gave me an "ERR" an the display, the Pentax Digital Spotmeter LV 0,00 and the D300 Nikon showed up an "LO" (more than 15 sec.
But I´m like terrier dogs an stifling in this topic till there is an usable result. I´m learning and thats very fine for me (with a 63 years head).
Thank you again for teaching me!
George
oftheherd
Veteran
I noticed that before and didn't say anything. Are you referring indeed to LV or to EV? EV can be a minus number. I don't know about LV, or if my Luna Pro or Luna Pro SBC has LV. It's not something I use if they do.
JOE1951
Established
I'm thinking, a wide angle lens where the suns ecliptic passes across the frame, where the star trails are straight. North of the ecliptic, the trails bend increasingly to the North Pole, south of the ecliptic, the trails bend to the south pole.
MartinP
Veteran
As an idea of a meter setting, the Lunasix set to 400asa will read to EV -2. At your chosen f8 (why btw?) that is about four minutes without any reciprocity correction. The Lunasix is also reportedly not as sensitive as the LunaPro - I only have a Lunasix and haven't compared the specs. The readings on your various measurement tools seem to indicate out-of-range and not an actual reading . . .
venchka
Veteran
A Luna Pro sbc will read the amount of light from a single LED reflected off a light colored wall 6 feet away from the LED. In other words, light so dim that I need a flashlight to read the meter after taking a reading.
Fuji Neopan Acros 100 has no reciprocity failure up to 2 minutes. From 120 seconds to 1,000 seconds, add +1/2 stop. Essentially zero reciprocity failure. Making Acros the fastest film available for very low light/very long exposures.
ps: Set your meters to ASA/ISO 25 for low light readings. Get a reading for f/1 or f/1.4 @ Whatever seconds. Then convert to your film's ASA/ISO and aperture and time.
Fuji Neopan Acros 100 has no reciprocity failure up to 2 minutes. From 120 seconds to 1,000 seconds, add +1/2 stop. Essentially zero reciprocity failure. Making Acros the fastest film available for very low light/very long exposures.
ps: Set your meters to ASA/ISO 25 for low light readings. Get a reading for f/1 or f/1.4 @ Whatever seconds. Then convert to your film's ASA/ISO and aperture and time.
daniel buck
Established
I'm not quite sure actually! It's a 90 Super Angulon, it doesn't have much distortion, so I'm quite sure it's not lens distortion. I have no idea really
FrankS
Registered User
gyuribacsi
Established
Excuse my mixing up LV an EV on my Gossen-meter. The Pentax Digital Spotmeter shows only LV.
I found some very interesting informations on Wikipedia and this confirms FrankS statement about 45 seconds at f 8 with a 400 ISO film. I´ll try it the next day.
George
I found some very interesting informations on Wikipedia and this confirms FrankS statement about 45 seconds at f 8 with a 400 ISO film. I´ll try it the next day.
George
freeranger
Well-known
The Black Cat exposure guide is great for night photography
http://www.blackcatphotoproducts.com/guide.html
http://www.blackcatphotoproducts.com/guide.html
oftheherd
Veteran
Sorry, nobody commented for a while so I quit looking. Yes, that and those above it. The arcs seem to be in different directions. I thought that unusual.
gyuribacsi
Established
Evrica!
My problems regarding long time exposures seem to be solved. With my reading glasses on I could read my Gossen meter properly and it suggested me the exposuretime of 2 minutes.
Yes, my eyesight turned worse. So I have to wear my glasses in total darkness too.
Cheers, I ruching out for shooting!
George
My problems regarding long time exposures seem to be solved. With my reading glasses on I could read my Gossen meter properly and it suggested me the exposuretime of 2 minutes.
Yes, my eyesight turned worse. So I have to wear my glasses in total darkness too.
Cheers, I ruching out for shooting!
George
