Longevity: Makina 67 vs Fuji GF670/Bessa III

[jaredangle]

I am planning to buy another medium format rangefinder for overseas travel, particularly landscapes in areas where I wouldn’t want to hike with a medium format SLR. I already own a Fuji GSW690, but I want something more compact and not so wide (both in focal length and aspect ratio).

My main requirements are (1) working rangefinder, (2) collapsible lens, (3) 645/6x6/6x7 format, (4) modern-ish lens coatings, and (5) normal focal length.

The Fuji GS645 series is the inexpensive choice, but I don’t love the vertical orientation, and I don’t have a great understanding of the lens quality.

In terms of lens quality, I know that the Makina 67 and the GF670 have exactly what I’m looking for. But with one being older and having a reputation for being difficult to repair, and the other being fully electronic and no longer supported by the manufacturer, it’s hard to tell which one has the better likelihood of remaining functional, say 10 years from now.

What’s the community’s verdict?

 

[jaredangle]

Oops, didn’t realize there is an identical thread from 2020 - feel free to delete this.

 

[Out to Lunch]

In case you haven't seen this

Fuji GF670 Review: 11 Reasons Why You Should Buy! - Leica Blog (Matt Osborne)

Here is my Fuji GF670 Review / Voigtlander Bessa III Review - Medium Format Rangefinder Film Camera

mrleica.com

 

[38Deardorff]

I'd take the Makina everytime.... repairs are still possible

 

[Oren Grad]

IIRC, these folks...

Fuji Film Repair - SPTS

...were/are(?) the last shop in the US known to be repairing GF670's. You could ask them whether they can still do it.

That said, I owned a GF670 for a while. I did not have any problems with it, but one of the reasons I sold it was because the folding mechanism felt quite fragile to me and I had my doubts about its longevity/long-term repairability.

Even as far as the Makina 67/670 cameras, though, I'd suggest identifying a specific repair shop or shops that are supposed to be able to work on them, and contacting them to verify that that is still true, and how long they expect to be able to continue.

 

[besk]

It doesn't fold which may eliminate it from consideration but a Rolleiflex is something I would consider. The ones with a f/3.5 lens weigh the same or are slightly lighter than the Makina.
I have carried my Rolleiflex in a very small bag in Europe.

 

[Iogdka]

Well, I'm waiting for a GS645 CLA'd with new bellows from Japan. My third 645 but I'm hoping to pocket it around France and Italy next year.

 

[Godfrey]

I am planning to buy another medium format rangefinder for overseas travel, particularly landscapes in areas where I wouldn’t want to hike with a medium format SLR. I already own a Fuji GSW690, but I want something more compact and not so wide (both in focal length and aspect ratio).

My main requirements are (1) working rangefinder, (2) collapsible lens, (3) 645/6x6/6x7 format, (4) modern-ish lens coatings, and (5) normal focal length.

The Fuji GS645 series is the inexpensive choice, but I don’t love the vertical orientation, and I don’t have a great understanding of the lens quality.

In terms of lens quality, I know that the Makina 67 and the GF670 have exactly what I’m looking for. But with one being older and having a reputation for being difficult to repair, and the other being fully electronic and no longer supported by the manufacturer, it’s hard to tell which one has the better likelihood of remaining functional, say 10 years from now.

What’s the community’s verdict?

I've owned all the cameras you list above, as well as others. I was excited when I bought the GF670, but I found it simply too clumsy in use. The Makina 67 is much better that way, although pretty bulky even folded. (F. Binder, aka wizcam on Ebay, offers repair services for the Makina 67. He did an excellent job of restoring mine ... needed a new meter board, repairs to the viewfinder/rangefinder, etc etc. Works like new now. If you have a Makina you need serviced, look him up on Ebay. He's based in Florida.)

For travel, though, my favorite MF cameras are:
- Voigtländer Perkeo II
- Hasselblad SWC/M
- Mamiya GS645S Wide 60 Professional

The Perkeo II, folded, is the compact champ. The Color-Skopar 80mm f/3.5 lens is superb, a normal field of view.
I can never say anything wrong about the Hasselblad SWC, although it is expensive and somewhat bulky. The wide Biogon 38/4.5 T* lens is as good as it gets.
The GS645S Wide 60 is excellent if a bit bulky. The lens is outstanding, and just wide enough but still in a normal range.

A camera I have not owned/used but remain interested in is the Lomo LC-A 120 ( Lomo LC-A 120 Film Camera). It has a 38mm f/4.5 lens on 6x6 format, similar to the SWC, but is much more compact and includes metering with auto exposure. $450 new. I remain tempted to buy one...

I might carry the Makina 67 on travel, but I'm much more likely to carry the Perkeo II.

G

 

[jaredangle]

I just checked out the Perkeo II and that is very appealing. Do you think the Color-Skopar or the Vaskar version is better for color landscapes?

 

[38Deardorff]

I just checked out the Perkeo II and that is very appealing. Do you think the Color-Skopar or the Vaskar version is better for color landscapes?

The Color Skopar is said to the better lens. It's sure worked well for me
Here's the very first photo w my Perkeo ll w CS lens ..... TMax 100

 

[bucs]

I just checked out the Perkeo II and that is very appealing. Do you think the Color-Skopar or the Vaskar version is better for color landscapes?

Would recommend the Color Skopar. See linked post from reddit below (not mine):

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/s/BwNzfNqY9z

I use a Perkeo I (not II) for snapshots. The lens is sharp enough and is coated. I prefer the 1st version because the auto film counter reset on the 2nd version can fail due to a weak spring in the mechanism. The 1st version uses a red window 🙂

Edit: I also keep an accessory rangefinder on the hotshoe if I need to measure distance precisely, e.g. for portraits

 

[ChrisPlatt]

A lightweight medium format folder is a great idea.
I have always fancied a Plaubel Makina 67 or 67W.
That said like many cameras from that era it is rather underbuilt.
Same goes for my Fuji GS645, its contemporary, which broke quickly.

I have never handled the Bessa III, but I have had much better luck with CV cameras.

Chris

 

[Moto-Uno]

One that I haven't seen suggested , is the Welta Weltur 6x6 ! Comes with a Tessar 75mm f2.8 lens and is barely the size of my
Kodak Retina . A half century later the shutter speeds are still fine and the rangefinder is good in reasonable lighting . An
uncoated lens , but many of the slides I've taken in distant travels are perfectly satisfactory . I'm a sucker for it and as mentioned
it's compactness pretty much guarantees you'll always have it with you !

 

[TenEleven]

I shoot medium format as my main format. I often take a scale-focus Zeiss Ikonta 523/16 with me. It is as small and as light as you're going to get for 6x6. The 523/16 post-war model has a coated Opton-Tessar lens. I find it sufficient as a side-arm to my larger medium format cameras which I usually carry. Since it's a folder I try to shoot it at f8 or f11 so the scale focus is less of an issue. Is it as sharp as my Rolleiflexes? No, course not. It weighs 1/3rd though and is quicker for snap-shots.

A folder that takes good pictures is the Agfa Super Isolette - these are now quite pricey.
Another folder with good IQ (for a folder!) is a strange folder that seems to take inspiration from the original Makina. The "Suzuki PressVan" it has a coated 75/3.5 Takumar lens. (Pentax a.k.a. Asahi Kogaku) Seperate VF and RF - Barnack style. The lens is really good (well medium format Pentax, what do you expect?) and it seems to be able to hold the film quite flat for a folder. I also use the 530/2 (Uncoated lens though) for 6x9 since the GW690 is a huge commitment to carry around.

Generally with folders - even the GF670 or the Makina you have to be careful. Do not wind on before you unfold it or you will get blurry pictures. There is always a trade-off.

Speaking of the GF670 - I have sold mine.
I loved the lens & the camera. It is not small but was nice to shoot. However, the lens developed a back focus problem. Most likely due to the folding mechanism developing slop.

So to Fuji it went for repairs. Things were good for another 2-3 years and then the problem returned. Back to Fuji - this time I had to pay out of my own pocket. Deviously, the problem does not show up as rangefinder misalignment, so you only see it when you print or scan your negatives. So after another 21/2 years of peace in 2022 the problem appeared - again.

Fed up I sold it for "junk" disclosing the problem, which somehow still netted me more than I originally paid for it.

Long story short, it may have been my copy but the GF670 was not a very reliable camera for me*

*And before someone chides me - I have shot folders for decades and I am always very careful to return the lenses to the dead infinity stop before folding. No other folder I have used in 35mm or 120 ever developed such consistent problems. That includes the Makina, which you also have to be gentle with.

 

[TenEleven]

Thinking about it I think the Mamiya 6 or 7 would be a good fit. They are still repairable in Japan - it's a bit of a hassle since you have to use mail or fax but they get the job done. They recently replaced the wind assy on one of my Mamiya 6 with a re-manufactured one and it works like new now.

My thinking is that if you are hiking a plastic body might be preferable to metal, leather and leatherette - if there's a drizzle you can just wipe it off - whereas a wet bellows is seriously no good. They are pricey and there are basically no weight savings to be had over a Rolleiflex etc. but at least the Mamiya 6 collapses to be nice and flat which is perhaps more hikeable. The lenses are great.