back alley
IMAGES
i get some feedback on my images but not all that much.
more of the feedback i get is from non photographers rather than photographers...amateur types.
the non photographers that like my stuff are the most effusive...the photo guys keep it short ("nice shot")...
is this your experience too and does it matter much to you?
more of the feedback i get is from non photographers rather than photographers...amateur types.
the non photographers that like my stuff are the most effusive...the photo guys keep it short ("nice shot")...
is this your experience too and does it matter much to you?
skucera
Well-known
It's rare for me to see a photographer's works in their presence. It's happened vicariously on this website, but only a few times in real life since college. Having two art degrees, I'm fairly well equipped with words to compliment artists that they understand and appreciate... terms like composition, balance, use of color or tonal range, framing, scale, etc. In those few times I have complimented what I like, and I was quiet about what didn't grab me.
I've only been asked twice for actual criticism, and I jokingly said that I wasn't an art professor and I'd never played one on TV, but I'd do my best. Then I just channeled my less abrasive professors from art school, gave some advice on what to minimize and what to capitalize on, and maybe a point or two that they hadn't thought about to bring their compositions up to the next level, along with some pointers to the works of great painters, sculptors, and even a photographer or two. However, my main aim was to nurture, not to denigrate or abuse. If someone is earnestly trying to become better at their craft, someone who's opening themselves up for possible abuse, I try to offer encouragement, just as many art instructors and professors did for me when I was a student and a young graphic designer, before I turned to engineering for a living.
Scott
I've only been asked twice for actual criticism, and I jokingly said that I wasn't an art professor and I'd never played one on TV, but I'd do my best. Then I just channeled my less abrasive professors from art school, gave some advice on what to minimize and what to capitalize on, and maybe a point or two that they hadn't thought about to bring their compositions up to the next level, along with some pointers to the works of great painters, sculptors, and even a photographer or two. However, my main aim was to nurture, not to denigrate or abuse. If someone is earnestly trying to become better at their craft, someone who's opening themselves up for possible abuse, I try to offer encouragement, just as many art instructors and professors did for me when I was a student and a young graphic designer, before I turned to engineering for a living.
Scott
PKR
Veteran
Learn to be your own critic. Study art history, visit museums and galleries. Look at your work critically. Who cares what others think, unless someone is paying you to photograph something? The only thing that really matters is what you think, because if done honestly, that photo is you.
My two cents.
My two cents.
:: Mark
Well-known
While this is a great aim, I think that most people are far poorer at self photo-criticism than they believe they are.
There are three main reasons why you might take pictures: (i) for the fun of exploring and using the camera, (ii) for personal memories, and (iii) for people unknown to you to gain something from your images.
If the last of these is the reason you take pictures, you might find that that your work is distorted by your perception of the first two. If you are genuinely aware of this and can channel it to your advantage, more power to you. But most people mix these things up without ever realising it. This is where an independent critic becomes essential, even before you get in to deeper and fluffier artistic issues such as the connection between your photographs and contemporary and historical contexts.
PKR
Veteran
So then, whose pictures are they, yours or the critics?
Big Ursus
Well-known
It matters very much to me because I need to find out whether other people see in my photographs what I hope they see.
Phrases like "nice shot" or "I like it," aren't very helpful to me since they reveal more about the viewer, than they do about the pictures.
I discovered years ago, when I began teaching photography, that pushing students by asking them what they liked about a picture didn't get me very far, because they didn't know how to respond. That's when I started to talk about how to talk about photographs. Once folks learn that vocabulary, they can give feedback that we can use to improve each other's work.
Since I stopped actively working as an art instructor, I've looked hard for other chances to discuss photographs meaningfully with people.
That's not easy, even in camera clubs, where members find it much easier to have conversations about how to emulate Adams or Cartier-Bresson than to figure out how to make pictures that don't look like those a limited number of masters created. – Or- we just admire shiny gear - which is always fun, I must admit!
Phrases like "nice shot" or "I like it," aren't very helpful to me since they reveal more about the viewer, than they do about the pictures.
I discovered years ago, when I began teaching photography, that pushing students by asking them what they liked about a picture didn't get me very far, because they didn't know how to respond. That's when I started to talk about how to talk about photographs. Once folks learn that vocabulary, they can give feedback that we can use to improve each other's work.
Since I stopped actively working as an art instructor, I've looked hard for other chances to discuss photographs meaningfully with people.
That's not easy, even in camera clubs, where members find it much easier to have conversations about how to emulate Adams or Cartier-Bresson than to figure out how to make pictures that don't look like those a limited number of masters created. – Or- we just admire shiny gear - which is always fun, I must admit!
Michael Markey
Veteran
I think this is good advice .... however many want some kind of external validation and it's then that things start to become difficult I think.
They end up taking photographs that conform to other people tastes if they're not careful.
I belong to a local Photographic society and the whole premise is built on competitions and gaining accolades.
It is, like other clubs in the UK, affiliated with a governing body and the national and regional judges arbitrate on what they consider to be a "good" picture .... sharpness being the key.
Complete madness but very popular.
Whole generations of photographers being suckered in year after year and losing their identity in the process.
:: Mark
Well-known
Oh, I do not think that you need or should agree with the critics.
However, engaging with a (good) critic should open your mind to aspects or potentials of your work that you might not be able to see either because you are too close to it or because you simply have never encountered something before.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
That's a great question. Do people want critique or do they want praise? I think people should attend a workshop run by someone they respect if they want their work to be critiqued. Else making do with the "nice shot" is the polite way to go in a public forum. I second the recommendation to be your own critic.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Photography seems to be more of a cathartic process for me now ... often a way of sharing my life with those that are interested in pics of goats, sheep etc! lol
Yokosuka Mike
Abstract Clarity
Well, I love a compliment, who doesn't? I also love a bit of criticism if it'll make me a better photographer. But, around here I don't expect either. RFF is the kind of place where one puts their best foot forward and then another person puts their best foot forward right on top of it. And, so it goes.
One can post what one thinks is the best shot of their life in the "Words no Words" section and there it will sit, and there it will continue to sit until it just drops out of sight buried under other images or simply neglected. Meanwhile, someone will start a thread about "lint in their camera bag" and it'll take off like wildfire... 200 plus responses; there you have it.
So, that's the way it is, take it of leave it. On the brighter side, it's nice to share ones photography whether or not it's acknowledged or, less likely, even appreciated. Who cares anyway? If one is pleased with their own work, well then, good enough.
However, there are times when I see images posted here that impress and inspire me and, I sometimes say nothing - that's not right. This thread has impressed upon me the need for me to be more forthcoming with my comments toward others that have done what in my opinion is damn good photography!
I apologize if there are any grammatical errors in this post. Perhaps Roger Hicks can screen it for errors and set me straight.
Kanpai (Cheers)!
Mike
One can post what one thinks is the best shot of their life in the "Words no Words" section and there it will sit, and there it will continue to sit until it just drops out of sight buried under other images or simply neglected. Meanwhile, someone will start a thread about "lint in their camera bag" and it'll take off like wildfire... 200 plus responses; there you have it.
So, that's the way it is, take it of leave it. On the brighter side, it's nice to share ones photography whether or not it's acknowledged or, less likely, even appreciated. Who cares anyway? If one is pleased with their own work, well then, good enough.
However, there are times when I see images posted here that impress and inspire me and, I sometimes say nothing - that's not right. This thread has impressed upon me the need for me to be more forthcoming with my comments toward others that have done what in my opinion is damn good photography!
I apologize if there are any grammatical errors in this post. Perhaps Roger Hicks can screen it for errors and set me straight.
Kanpai (Cheers)!
Mike
John Lawrence
Well-known
Very true!
Another site has an (in)famous 'critique my pictures' section, where members post pictures for others to critique. I'd say that well over half of those who post pictures get nasty and abusive with anyone who says anything they consider to be negative - which is just about everything except glowing praise!
My favourite comment was when someone pointed out they'd asked for a critique of their work, posted it in the 'critique my pictures' section and now were abusing everyone who didn't say it was amazing. Their reply was, 'yes - but I don't expect people to say there's anything wrong with it' !
John
daveleo
what?
cz23
-
That's about where I'm at, too, although "cathartic" is not quite right for me. It's a free state of mind, without much concern for what others think.
We don't have many goats or sheep here in downtown Chicago, but humans fill in nicely for them.
John
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I'm getting more than two words from those who are photographing as well. And not only from amateur type. Sometimes .
I'm getting mostly no comments but "likes" from non photographers on my personal and for people I know FB page.
Oh, and I'm getting "it is crap", "why did you print this" comments as well. And not only from Russian speaking audience.
Don't know why. But I'm constantly learning, looking, practicing and commenting.
.I'm getting mostly no comments but "likes" from non photographers on my personal and for people I know FB page
.Oh, and I'm getting "it is crap", "why did you print this" comments as well.
And not only from Russian speaking audience. Don't know why. But I'm constantly learning, looking, practicing and commenting.
PKR
Veteran
I think this is good advice .... however many want some kind of external validation and it's then that things start to become difficult I think.
They end up taking photographs that conform to other people tastes if they're not careful.
I belong to a local Photographic society and the whole premise is built on competitions and gaining accolades.
It is, like other clubs in the UK, affiliated with a governing body and the national and regional judges arbitrate on what they consider to be a "good" picture .... sharpness being the key.
Complete madness but very popular.
Whole generations of photographers being suckered in year after year and losing their identity in the process.
My favorite interweb "Critical Review": https://petapixel.com/2011/07/13/why-you-shouldnt-give-too-much-weight-to-anonymous-online-critics/
And yes, Michael..Sharpness!
f16sunshine
Moderator
There is critique and there is what amounts to encouragement.
The common etiquette seems to be, critique one must request where encouragement comes unsolicited.
Photographers should not expect critique without asking for it.
The common etiquette seems to be, critique one must request where encouragement comes unsolicited.
Photographers should not expect critique without asking for it.
PKR
Veteran
I encourage all of you to go out and make as many pictures as your time and resources permit. Look at them carefully and, ask yourself if they look like what you thought they would, when you took them (previsualization). If they don't, keep at it until you have mastered this. Pleasant surprises are great but, they should be very rare if you have learned to photograph (see), rather than just learned to use a camera.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Thanks for the reminder
They once put it to David Bailey that he didn`t get the respect for his work in the UK as he would if he`d been born in the US.
He answered "respect from who" ," I don`t care ...there`s only a few people who understand anyway".
I think that`s key .
Find someone who understands what you`re trying to do but also understands you.
Here`s the interview .... it rambles as David Bailey interviews are apt to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQbyQgkOB9s
PKR
Veteran
Thanks for the reminder
They once put it to David Bailey that he didn`t get the respect for his work in the UK as he would if he`d been born in the US.
He answered "respect from who" ," I don`t care ...there`s only a few people who understand anyway".
I think that`s key .
Find someone who understands what you`re trying to do but also understands you.
Here`s the interview .... it rambles as David Bailey interviews are apt to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQbyQgkOB9s
David Bailey is an artist and master of his craft. I'm sure he had a pool of critics guiding him on his way to success.. maybe his local camera club?
"The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera". - Dorothea Lange