Lost and Disconnected

russelljtdyer

Writer
Local time
4:23 AM
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
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269
Location
Milan, Italy
This is a difficult post for me to write. I am so upset about this that for over a day now I have been trying not to think about this. I've also been trying to keep my upper and lower teeth from touching each other, lest I start grinding them in anger. But, I need to resolve the problem and I need help doing that.

A month or so ago I bought a Leica M-8.2 camera. I'm enjoying it very much. As I tend to do, I started tweaking it, personalizing it. I bought a thumbs-up from Match Technical the first week. Last week I ordered one of those mini bug soft-releases from Pop Flash. I ordered an IR/UV filter for one of my lens. And then I decided to get my two Leica lenses 6-bit encoded, so it'll adjust for them and record the lens used in the Exif data in the image files.

Looking into this I found that the simplest and cheapest way to do this is to remove the flanges or bayonet rings from the lenses and send them to Product and Design Metalwork in Brooklyn, New York. It's a great idea: they're small and light, so they don't cost as much as shipping the lenses. Since I live in Italy, I don't have to worry about U.S. or Italian customs charging me anything as they enter each country. I contacted John Milch at P&D Metalwork. He quoted me a price of $160, which included express mail back to me. I paid him by PayPal in advance. I heard that new flanges would be about €300 each, so this was much cheaper.

I marked each flange with a permanent marker to indicate where it is positioned on the lens in relation to the red dot on the side of the lens. Then I removed carefully the six tiny screws from each. I stripped one, though, and was very upset with myself. But after working it with acetone, it came off. I put each flange into separate plastic bags, along with a note stating as to which lens each belonged. I then wrote a note explaining what I wanted done to the flanges and included my return address. I put all of this in a simple business envelop with a self-adhesive flap that you can easily pull open and reseal. I was using it just for transporting everything to the Federal Express office. I intended to go there the next morning, put the envelop in one of their stiff cardboard envelops to send to New York. It would cost me about €40 to ship it to them. That's a little pricey, but it's still less than buying new flanges.

The evening before I was to go to FedEx, a friend of mine came by. She lives in Milan, but was flying to New Jersey the following morning. Her parents are there. She offered to take them with her on the plane and mail them from NJ shortly after arriving. That would be much cheaper than FedEx from Italy and they would arrive sooner. She would be mailing it from a post office less than 100 miles away from Brooklyn. I thought that was a cool idea. So I gave her the envelop and gave her a print-out of the mailing address. I asked her to buy a padded envelop from the post office when she went to mail it, and to put my envelop with the flanges in it and then to send it Priority Mail so that I'd have a tracking number. She said she would see what she could do--that was my tip that I should have told her more emphatically what to do and not to see what she could do, or I should have taken the envelop back.

Two weeks have gone by and the machine shop in Brooklyn hadn't received them--they said that they would encode the flanges and mail them back to me the same day they received them, and would send me an email with the tracking number. I asked my friend about how she mailed them. She said she put two thin pieces of styrofoam in the envelop I gave her and mailed them first class. She stressed first class as if that was necessarily the best class. I reminded her that I wanted her to put them in one of those padded envelops. I said that in the envelop I gave her, the flanges may tear open the sides and they'll fall out. She seemed unaffected by my concerns.

I called yesterday the shop in Brooklyn to see if they had received them. They said they hadn't received anything from me. Then I said it was sent from my friend from NJ. Then they said they had received an envelop from a woman in New Jersey. They read her name to me: it was my friend. The envelop arrived open and empty with a note attached to it from the post office in Brooklyn saying that that's how they received it. The lens flanges apparently fell out during shipping.

I am so furious that I can't talk to my friend. Instead, I wrote a note to her in skype saying that the envelop arrived open and empty. She hasn't responded yet, but I don't want to here what she has to say. I'm sure she'll say something like, "Oh, I'm so sorry." and then she'll forget about it. I had a friend who one night came to my apartment and snorted cocaine in front of me twice, although I told him not to do it. I've never spoken to him again. Losing the mounting rings for my Leica lenses is tantamount to doing cocaine in my home: it ends the friendship.

I traded some emails with Leica this morning asking how much it would cost for new flanges. They said I have to send the lenses to them to install the flanges. I'm not sure why I can't be trusted to screw in six screws into each lens. I asked how much it would cost, but they haven't told me yet.

What are my other options? Is there a store somewhere that sells these flanges--ones with the six-bit coding so I don't have to go through this again? I'm desperate to resolve quickly this problem. Not because I need to use the lenses any time soon, but because I'm so stressed and upset about it. I feel disconcerted and disconnected. Thanks in advance for any ideas or just sympathy.

-Russell
 
You can buy Leica, Voigtlander and ZM lens flanges from China/ebay. Just look for "Leica flange". I'm using one of those on my 75 Summilux. I'm very picky when it comes to flange and/or LTM adapter thickness and quality, but have good experience with ebay seller jinfinance.

Roland.
 
Send the lenses to Don Goldberg.
Leica would charge much more.

But the only person to be mad at is yourself -- for trusting something like that to be done properly by a non camera person without explicit packing and shipping directions.

Stephen
 
What lens flanges do you need, I think I have a 28mm and whatver the other frameline that mates with the 28mm liying around.
 
I don't have a clue what you should do with your lenses, but, honestly . . .

If it is important enough to throw away your friend then it's your fault, not hers - you should not have put her in that position.
She did it for you as a casual favor (drop some metal rings in the mail - they are metal, what could happen ?),
but you are treating it as a test of her responsibility.
(Come to thing about it - it's the Post Office you should be angry with.)

If it was that important, really, you should have done it yourself.

Lenses you can buy. Good friends are hard to come by (even if they are careless).
 
^^^ Dave's got a point...

There's always two sides to a dispute, though I do feel for you and your situation.

Contact Don Goldberg, he's helped me in the past. He's your man...
 
You should have packed them properly yourself, with the shipping address written on the package. That aside, I don't see why you didn't just send them to a local machine shop. There are templates and drawings to be found on the net showing where the recesses go, and a machine shop can easily use those for doing the milling. Then it's just a case of finding the codes you need, a small paintbrush and some black and white paint to finish them off.

I can't imagine A.N.Other small local machine shop charging any more than about 50 Euros for the milling of both flanges.

Codes...
http://lavidaleica.com/content/leica-lens-codes

Template (linked to from above page)...
http://bophoto.typepad.com/bophoto/2009/01/m8-coder-simple-manual-handcoding-of-m-lenses.html

Why on earth people think that nothing can be done without sending stuff to the US is beyond me.
 
consider how ridiculous this statement sounds to an objective person not immersed in leica-lore: "Losing the mounting rings for my Leica lenses [...] ends the friendship."

sorry, you could have easily avoided all of this mess. if you want something done right...
 
You can not install them yourself because the thickness varies slightly. I had to measure mine and adjust the thickness of the new to match otherwise the focus was off. The wides even front focused requiring .001" metal thickness removal.

They were all new from the 1980`s & never been serviced. The thickness measured from .039 to .042 and that is enough to screw things up.

Leica will also adjust the focus as required so they work when you get them back.
 
If this soap opera had happened to a friend of mine I'd tell him he was getting too gizmo-happy for his own good. This ain't religion, it's photography. Maybe you need to get out more without your camera. Just my humbug opinion.
 
They probably do internal shimming AND do a 'measurement and match' to the particular flange for each lens assembly.

Saying that the flange thickness varies by as much as .003" is quite a lot of variation for small optical components! I had no idea. They certainly need to be matched for accuracy with the focusing system.

G
 
Russell,

That's a sad tale. I've made this mistake myself once upon a time ... actually twice ... but never since. I trust my friends (and family) for their best intention to be helpful, but I put strict limits on what that means. I never risk entrusting them with things that I know they haven't a clue about and that I'm sure are not important to them. It saves a lot of heartache. I don't want to put them in the situation, and have to blame myself if/when it goes wrong.

I think, in your situation, I would choose to go the safe if expensive route: I'd send the lenses off to Leica to have the flanges replaced, coded, and the focusing cams checked for accuracy. That eliminates being in doubt about them when you go out shooting, and also provides a warranty.

If I was going to replace the flanges for coding myself, knowing what others in this thread have now reported on the potential thickness variation, I'd want the original flanges along with the new replacements, and I'd match them up with a micrometer and shim them to the right thickness.

How to reconcile this situation between you and your friend ... ach. That's something you'll have to work out for yourself. It is best to just let it go and take it as a lesson learned, for me. :-(

G
 
You can buy Leica, Voigtlander and ZM lens flanges from China/ebay. Just look for "Leica flange". I'm using one of those on my 75 Summilux. I'm very picky when it comes to flange and/or LTM adapter thickness and quality, but have good experience with ebay seller jinfinance.

Roland.

I did this for a number of my lenses. Works great and was cheap (way cheaper than postage). There is only one way to mail packages in the US - Priority Mail insured (or overnight). First class is only minimally cheaper than priority and no faster (maybe slower).
 
First class is only minimally cheaper than priority and no faster (maybe slower).

Off topic but perhaps helpful to some:

There are versions of first class that are actually identical to priority -- they use a tracking number. Useful for smaller/lighter items.

This is NOT just simply putting a stamp on an envelope however. 🙂

For those in the USA that have paypal, visit paypal.com/shipnow

You'll be able to select first class as the ship option. If it's a small/light item it might cost $1.50 to $2 and the resulting ship label resembles a priority label (except where it says First Class.) It's trackable online.

I've mailed many items this way, and they usually arrive in 2-3 days along with priority mail.

Not many people know this but these mail shipments travel between airports on Fedex planes...

I've often mailed via this method on a Saturday and the package arrives Monday...equivalent of overnight, for pennies. 🙂

OK, back to the flange discussion. <

Flanges should be at LEAST mailed in a padded envelope.

HD_1257_L.jpg
 
Thanks for the tip, currently only priority is available from USPS web site. I get a lot of this kind of packages, they are easy to spot there is a big "F" on them.

That is a nice USPS shipping tip, thanks digitalintrigue.

For small precision parts like a lens flange, however, I would personally use a small size USPS Priority Mail box, with the parts individually wrapped in a plastic envelope and the boxed filled with bubble wrap.

OR individually wrapped parts, each in its own small cardboard box, then put into a sturdy padded package envelope.

They're much less likely to be damaged that way.

G
 
Take a deep breath and realize that "things happen". Friends are more important and sometimes people make mistakes. Time to move on and go to plan B.
 
Im with the OP, dump the friend. Some of you must have some pretty low expectations of your FRIENDS (which can, in SOME cases, be more important than family)... In my opinion there is a level of expected responsibility a friend should take with any item of yours entrusted to them, whether it be a metal ring, or a toothbrush, I would never treat my friends things so carelessly, I would have recognized that this was something important TO MY FRIEND, and done everything in my power to make sure it got there. I guess that is just the kind of friend I am, and I expect my friends to be...

I am sorry, I cannot believe some of these comments... I dont wanna be rude or start a comment war at all, not my intention, as I respect your opinions, but if you truly believe it was not her fault then we have wildly different expectations and understandings of what being a friend truly means.

I feel bad for whoever accepts less from their own friends, because that is not truly a friend...
 
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