I've read from a number of sources that with post processing the M10 aka M240 exceeds the output of the M9 - but that with no processing the M9 beats the M10 on color.
What are your favorite best guides for M240 post processing ?
BTW, I'm told by a reliable source that Monochrome sales have all but died thanks to the excellent B/W output of the M10. To me this suggests that Monochromes will be not only easier to buy new, but also less expensive on the used market.
Thanks,
Stephen
What are your favorite best guides for M240 post processing ?
BTW, I'm told by a reliable source that Monochrome sales have all but died thanks to the excellent B/W output of the M10. To me this suggests that Monochromes will be not only easier to buy new, but also less expensive on the used market.
Thanks,
Stephen
V-12
Well-known
While the M10 is excellent at B&W it is no comparison at all against the Monochrom for outright resolution or tonality. So perhaps declare your informed source? I speak not with the prejudice of one who defends one camera or the other, but as somebody who has both and can easily appreciate the difference. But that doesn't answer your question about processing M10 colour files because I rarely work in colour.
V
V
pieter
Established
Interesting... I recently heard the exact opposite, ie that M240 sales have slowed considerably so as to leave quite a lot on the shelves at dealers, while the Monochrom still sells at a steady rate. Now my source was probably not as informed as yours, but I have seen the M240 in stock at all Leica dealers near me ever since about the release of the Sony A7.
Personally I'm not that impressed by the b/w output of my M240, but then again I have a Monochrom so I guess I'm not that easily impressed.
Personally I'm not that impressed by the b/w output of my M240, but then again I have a Monochrom so I guess I'm not that easily impressed.
M10 sales do seem to be slowing down - probably a combination of the new Sony with Leica just catching up to back orders. Finally they are dealer shelves awaiting buyers.
I didn't say the M10 was better than the Monochrome in B/W, or even as good. I am told Monochrome sales are really slow. The reason seems to be the M10 is good enough at B/W that some buyers are opting for the less expensive M10 that does both color and B/W. Monochromes are often in stock waiting for buyers now.
But we digress. What about the best step by step M10 post processing procedures ?
Stephen
I didn't say the M10 was better than the Monochrome in B/W, or even as good. I am told Monochrome sales are really slow. The reason seems to be the M10 is good enough at B/W that some buyers are opting for the less expensive M10 that does both color and B/W. Monochromes are often in stock waiting for buyers now.
But we digress. What about the best step by step M10 post processing procedures ?
Stephen
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Who is your 'reliable source'?
And BTW it's Monochrom not Monochrome.
And BTW it's Monochrom not Monochrome.
angelopartemi
SnakeFace
Why does everyone want to argue? WHO CARES WHO THE SOURCE IS!????! JESUS CHRIST!
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
angelopartemi
SnakeFace
Semantics :bang:
yep, likewise the official name of the M10 is the M240.
As far as the source, I ain't saying. Believe it or don't.
Stephen
Tony Whitney
Well-known
The official name of the camera is Leica M Typ 240...TW
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
It amazes me that even the boss can start a thread around here and have it go bum up in no time at all.
You lot are hilarious!
You lot are hilarious!
YYV_146
Well-known
Trying to keep things on topic, I don't have much experience with the M240 in particular, though I have worked on some M240 files...But for every camera, the important thing IMO is to know what the limits of the sensor are. How much highlight and shadow detail can be recovered, how much noise and dynamic range loss at each iso level .etc
In my experience the M240 auto WB is a bit to the cold side, RAW files could use a slight unsharpen mask, and highlight overhead is smaller than the M9's. A lot more shadow detail in comparison, though. In the end there's nothing particular about the M240 compared to the other CMOS sensors out there, and even if there is it's mostly because of the high quality of Leica lenses. Through base iso to 800 I could not notice any difference between the look of the M240's raw files and the A7's (with the same lens and after manual white balance), aside from the Leica files being slightly sharper and having maybe 2/3 stops less shadow latitude. Above 800 the M240's noise looks totally different from the A7, and starting from iso 1200 or so banding starts to appear after extreme processing.
I'd just process in any way I want, but be careful about preparing high iso files for large prints...
In my experience the M240 auto WB is a bit to the cold side, RAW files could use a slight unsharpen mask, and highlight overhead is smaller than the M9's. A lot more shadow detail in comparison, though. In the end there's nothing particular about the M240 compared to the other CMOS sensors out there, and even if there is it's mostly because of the high quality of Leica lenses. Through base iso to 800 I could not notice any difference between the look of the M240's raw files and the A7's (with the same lens and after manual white balance), aside from the Leica files being slightly sharper and having maybe 2/3 stops less shadow latitude. Above 800 the M240's noise looks totally different from the A7, and starting from iso 1200 or so banding starts to appear after extreme processing.
I'd just process in any way I want, but be careful about preparing high iso files for large prints...
Sam Kanga
Established
Back to the original question: Does anyone have M240 post processing experience/advice?
thx
Sam
Monochrom
Well-known
It would be nice to know more about PP with such camera as the m240. Or better the real world out put in B/W of the 240 in conparison with the MM and M9...
And about is monochrom, or monochrome or m10 or what ever...i understood any of the official or unofficial names mentioned here...
Leica really messed up things with that flamboyant name M...at last no one knows for sure how to call it...
And about is monochrom, or monochrome or m10 or what ever...i understood any of the official or unofficial names mentioned here...
Leica really messed up things with that flamboyant name M...at last no one knows for sure how to call it...
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Dante Stella seems to be a big fan of the camera so it would be interesting to hear his approach to PP?
Richard G
Veteran
I remember it was Steve Huff who claimed that the M240's black and white made the Monochrom redundant. I didn't believe it. I don't have the M240 and am very happy with the M9 and the Monochrom. I like the OP/HB calling the latest one the M10.
Sam Kanga
Established
I too agree with the OP/Head Bartender: M10
(I learned a long time ago not to disagree with the bartender)
(I learned a long time ago not to disagree with the bartender)
Ronald M
Veteran
While I do not have a 10, every digital camera I own is the same.
Profile the camera and set ACR to recognize preset by camera serial rather than Adobe Standard or embedded.
Get WB correct. I almost never use auto because it is wrong . Whi Bal card is the defining color. I set for sun and use one of the profiles to save it for all sun shots.
Leave the uv/ir filter in place unless there are light sources in the pic
moving on, set the exposure and shadow and highlites.
add medium contrast curve
sharpen for capture. Adobe preset is fine.
burn/dodge as required. Maybe spot a reflection or piece of trash or sensor dust Correct perspective and correct for distortion as required.
open as smart object, dup layer, return top layer back to ACR for noise reduction if required. NR softens the image, so make an edge mask to confine NR to non edges.
save as photoshop file.
Open your pic, dup it, put the two side by side, open soft proof on one and match it to the other. I made a preset from macBeth color checker in selective color and saved it. Do RGB only and make the color sampler read the same in the profiled image and original.
Use it over and over. Turn off profile & save a JPEG at proper size, final sharpen. save.
Send to Ai Pro Lab for economy print. If you did everything correctly, you get back a perfect print.
Profile the camera and set ACR to recognize preset by camera serial rather than Adobe Standard or embedded.
Get WB correct. I almost never use auto because it is wrong . Whi Bal card is the defining color. I set for sun and use one of the profiles to save it for all sun shots.
Leave the uv/ir filter in place unless there are light sources in the pic
moving on, set the exposure and shadow and highlites.
add medium contrast curve
sharpen for capture. Adobe preset is fine.
burn/dodge as required. Maybe spot a reflection or piece of trash or sensor dust Correct perspective and correct for distortion as required.
open as smart object, dup layer, return top layer back to ACR for noise reduction if required. NR softens the image, so make an edge mask to confine NR to non edges.
save as photoshop file.
Open your pic, dup it, put the two side by side, open soft proof on one and match it to the other. I made a preset from macBeth color checker in selective color and saved it. Do RGB only and make the color sampler read the same in the profiled image and original.
Use it over and over. Turn off profile & save a JPEG at proper size, final sharpen. save.
Send to Ai Pro Lab for economy print. If you did everything correctly, you get back a perfect print.
V-12
Well-known
Well OK, lets have a go at M10 (M240) colour processing. Do what you did with the M9. The colour is more accurate with the M10 so less work is needed in that department, but all other things are pretty much the same. More sharpening is required with the M10, but as you do that for the print size anyway it isn't a primary post processing step. And likewise there isn't any fundamental difference in converting a colour file into B&W from either the M9 or M10, there is no big advantage in the M10 other than more resolution. But even resolution is masked a little bit by the change in sensor type, with the M9 having more 'punch' to start with from the CCD sensor. I think of the 'punch' as the micro contrast, and is what people prefer from the M9 sensor.
A thought about Monochrom sales. I also hear they are still selling like hotcakes, but that is to a very specialist user base, buying small numbers of cameras. So any blip in sales, a months slowdown maybe, will statistically look like a massive drop, but its taken from a tiny sample. And while truly excellent monochrome pictures can be made with the M10, the Monochrom gives the specialist other things, a couple are mildly negative (more post processing to alter the linear nature of the base file, and no colour channel manipulate), but the key thing is perhaps the high ISO performance (5000 is perfectly usable) and that at high ISO the noise looks like attractive film grain, not the interpolated colour mush seen from M10 files. And it is this breadth of use that makes the Monochrom attractive, its a camera that can go from imitating large format ultra fine grain to pushed Tri-X and actually look like that without trying hard or adding filter effects in post processing.
Steve
A thought about Monochrom sales. I also hear they are still selling like hotcakes, but that is to a very specialist user base, buying small numbers of cameras. So any blip in sales, a months slowdown maybe, will statistically look like a massive drop, but its taken from a tiny sample. And while truly excellent monochrome pictures can be made with the M10, the Monochrom gives the specialist other things, a couple are mildly negative (more post processing to alter the linear nature of the base file, and no colour channel manipulate), but the key thing is perhaps the high ISO performance (5000 is perfectly usable) and that at high ISO the noise looks like attractive film grain, not the interpolated colour mush seen from M10 files. And it is this breadth of use that makes the Monochrom attractive, its a camera that can go from imitating large format ultra fine grain to pushed Tri-X and actually look like that without trying hard or adding filter effects in post processing.
Steve
pieter
Established
What I find to be the main challenge with M240 files processing is find the proper colors when it's not a normal daytime outside picture. I keep having to struggle with funky white balance and skin color issues. Thankfully lightroom has all kinds of sliders but to me it seems the M240 files actually NEED all that much touted mendability of its files so that we can reinvent skin color with every colored light we take a picture in... Its very impressive how "fixable" the M240 files are, but one has to wonder if it wouldn't be much easier if there was less to fix in the first place.