M2 or Z Ikon or M7 ????????

[Neil]

Forgive me if this is a much mentioned post, but I sit here pondering what I should do. trouble with the internet is that there is too much information and I just can't decide.
I currently have an M2 which is really nice and made (coincidentally) the year I was born. attached to it I have a 50mm Elmarit-M 2.8.
I guess I'm lazy and have spent the last 20 years shooting SLR's for my work (now Dslr's) but it bothers me to not be able to just lift the camera to my eye and shoot
as with the M2 i have to pull out the lens, press the CV meter botton squint to see the numbers on the dial then relate that back to the camera before taking the camera back to my eye and taking the picture.

So, I have it in mind to get a Biogon 35mm f2 and either an M7 or a Zeiss Ikon.
Just wondered which one of these two cameras you folks would recommend ?
I've been offered such a poor amount of money for the M2 and lens that I'm loathed to loose so much. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!

 

[akptc]

Neil, I use an M7 but have recently handled the Zeiss Ikon and was blown away by the viewfinder, it's simply exquisite. I still prefer the heft and handling of the M7 but can't get that ZI vf out of my mind 🙂

 

[Anupam]

but it bothers me to not be able to just lift the camera to my eye and shoot
as with the M2 i have to pull out the lens, press the CV meter botton squint to see the numbers on the dial then relate that back to the camera before taking the camera back to my eye and taking the picture.

If you meter by eye and pre-focus you'd be amazed how fast shooting manually can be. And for odd light, it's even faster than AE - unless you are shooting "normal" scenes all the time and always agree with the meter. I use a Bessa T and have learned to ignore the meter and RF window when speed is of the essence. When I can afford the time i use both, of course.

-Anupam

 

[mfogiel]

Neil, the answer is in the question. If you want to use a 35mm lens on AE, there is no camera which will let you see better and shoot faster than ZI. I have both the ZI and an M7, I use the ZI primarily with the 35mm (Biogon and Nokton), and the M7 with the 50mm (it is a 0.85x VF). The ZI, at 1/3rd of the price will let you see better, load the film faster and with no hassle, focus more precisely, and will sync you down to 1/2000th of a sec, which is useful if you shoot a 400 ISO film between indoors and outdoors. Will it last 50 years? - I don't care, I will be dead by then, and maybe in 5 years time I will go all digital anyway. This is a no brainer, the Leica is great, but it is both an obsolete and an overpriced tool. As a comment to this statement, I enclose a link to this photo, which I focused, framed and shot in less than 2 seconds:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1944993365&size=l

 

[Neil]

Thanks for your thoughts.
I see you're from Coventry Anupam, That's where I was born although I'm now in London. having been so dependent on Auto focus my pre focus by eye is not so hot.
I"m moving now towards the ZI as it seems for the money it's probably the best bet.
I'm a photographer by trade so I don't get loads of time with my "personal" pictures so the camera will sit doing nothing for quite some time. An M7 is a lot of money sitting in a cupboard !

I assume all you folks scan with a dedicated 35mm scanner ? Like a Nikon Coolscan.

 

[mfogiel]

If you want to get back the quality a good RF 35mm lens permits (and the 35/2 Biogon is among the finest), you have to use a dedicated scanner, probably the best new product is the CS 5000, although there are some other options including second hand Minolta 5400 machines. I use the CS 9000, with the bonus of being able to scan MF as well.

 

[peter_n]

M2 or Z Ikon or M7 ????????

I use M7s but they were bought before the ZI came out. Had the ZIs been on the market I might have bought those instead but my M7s have been great to use and extremely reliable. In general I would encourage you to purchase a camera with AE over a manual-only camera - much more versatile.

 

[Neil]

Yes, auto sounds good. frankly I'm lazy . I want the nostalgia of RF and manual but don't want the hassle. I'm not Henry C B and never will be, I also won't ever have the time he had. My only concern of the ZI is the electrical build quality.
On another note, how good is the meter on these two cameras ?
Thank you all again for your input.

 

[peter_n]

Can't speak for the ZI but the meter on the M7 is very usable and really accurate.

 

[mfogiel]

The metering is accurate on both, although the M7 is semi-spot and the ZI is centrally weighed. On the M7 you can block the exposure pressing the shutter half way, on the ZI you can do the same by pressing with the thumb a button on the back of the body, which freezes the meter reading for 15 seconds during which you recompose and shoot. The metering correction frequency is inversely proportional to the focal length used: the wider the lens, the more likely you are to include some bright portion of the sky inside. I normally use AE completely for all the fast street shots and tend to use the "intelligent" metering only for landscape or close range shots, when needed.

 

[Neil]

So, mfogiel to conclude as you have both these cameras. I wouldn't be going down the wrong road with the ZI ?
And with the biogon 35mm f2 would be a good combination for general carry around camera shooting coupled with a Nikon coolscan V ed.
cheers.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

It seems those who own and use a Zeiss Ikon (“ZM”) swear by them. And at no less than 1/2 the price of a (used) Leica M7, it is worthy of consideration.

The way I see it there are two downsides to the ZM when compared to an M7:
1. While nice and bright, the RF patch whites out at the slightest eye-movement off center; and
2. The build quality in no way measures up to the Leica.

Resale value with the ZM, if bought new, appears to be less a factor than if buying a new M7.

In the end, my advice to anyone who is considering a ZM or an M7 is to handle both side-by-side before buying.

Any M-Mount Zeiss lens is a good buy when compared to a Leica.

 

[back alley]

i have never noticed that the rf patch whites out on my zi.
and i find it interesting that major dslr makers mention that their professional bodies are made with magnesium, same as the zi.

 

[mfogiel]

Neil, the ZI is a great camera, where the engineering went into functinality and practicity, while in the case of M7, the engineering is in the durability, and the practicity is more of a secondary issue. Shooting with both these cameras is a pleasure, although with the Leica you really have to overcome the squinty VF vision to frame your shot effectively. IMHO the focusing on the ZI is easier than on the M7, above all, because you can see everything so much clearer, and I haven't suffered from decentering my eye, although I wear glasses, and this could explain the difference. The Biogon 35/2 is a close to perfect lens: it is slightly soft at f2.0, but this is relatively speaking, and is the kind of rendition that lets you make a splendid portrait. From my tests, this lens reaches the peak performance around f3.5, and frankly, the only drawback it has, is a relatively "big" size compared to the Summicron. In my opinion it betters the Summicron in most optical measures, but this is a hair splitting debate - you cannot go wrong with a lens of this class. As to the scanner, I believe it is ok, although I am not sure this one works at 16 bit, which would be important to preserve the tonality.

 

[splitimageview]

Having owned both, unless you get the M7 for a steal (I fell into that category which is the only reason I acquired one) I'd get a ZI. Heck, get two used ones for less than the price of a used M7.

 

[Marc-A.]

Hi Neil,
I've received this week my ZI and own also an M2. I posted some remarks on the differences between the two bodies. I don't know if it can help you. See here:
Zeiss Ikon vs Leica M2
IMO, the ZI is a very desirable body for its VF which is incredibly comfortable. If you shoot mostly with a 35mm lens, I strongly recommend you the ZI. See below.
I don't own or use a Leica M7 so I can't talk about it, but the metering of the ZI seems great to me. However, the AE lock button is not the most convenient feature of the ZI as it is on the back, as mfogiel stated.
All in all, I am very pleased with the ZI, and I feel I'm going to use it much more than my M2. Besides, with the ZI, I feel I don't need a Leica M7 at all.
Make the right choice for you, good luck,
Best,
Marc

35 framelines of the ZI:

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

I would go for Zeiss because of the price, the film loading, and the lenses.

 

[Uwe_Nds]

However, the AE lock button is not the most convenient feature of the ZI as it is on the back, as mfogiel stated.

That's what worries me about both ZI and Bessa R*A.
I'm left-eyed, so I'm afraid that when using AE-lock, it will involve poking my right thumb into my right eye...

Best regards,
Uwe