andrew00
Established
Hey,
After deciding I'd need to save up a bit longer for a M9-P (!) I've decided to pick up a film M in the meantime to create some lovely pictures.
I've decided the M will be working with a 50mm lens, probably just this lens as I also have an X100, which is 35mm, and a GRD III, which is 28mm.
I like shooting people so the 50mm seems the smart first choice and am thinking of a Summicron 50mm f/2 for it's size/cost, perhaps the IV version or a new one maybe as I intend to use the lens on the M9-P once I sell my kidneys and have the money.
This leaves the choice of M3 or M6 - what do you think?
I've got a lead on a M3 for about £600 which has apparently been serviced recently so should be in good condition although is naturally a little old.
I've also had someone offer my a M6 TTL 0.85 supposedly in great condition for £900.
I'm tempted by the M6 for a few reasons - firstly I'm coming from the digital age so whilst I intend to learn about the manual world, TTL metering would be useful.
Also, I shoot flash with my other cameras a fair amount and whilst I am not planning on it with the Leica (I want to do some lovely natural light portraits), one never knows if that could change and so having TTL flash ability would be useful.
Likewise the M6 TTL is newer so perhaps more reliable and w/the 0.85 frame line should be good for portraits/50mm lenses.
The M3 on the other hand is the classic and it's brighter viewfinder might be more useful for portraits where I need that critical focus, and, as this one has been recently services it shouldn't have any specific problems versus the M6 in reliability or performance, it's also cheaper.
What do you guys think? As I said, I want to take natural light portraits typically - also fashion type shots. Something that feels right etc.
Currently I'm thinking M6 TTL 0.85 is the smart decision as whilst it might not be 100% of the M3, it seems to have the advantage of technology in the metering etc and that seems a reasonable compromise for me. However, I don't know if the M3 is just the pure, fun choice, as I certainly want to enjoy the process so I'm open to advice!
Thanks for any suggestions!
After deciding I'd need to save up a bit longer for a M9-P (!) I've decided to pick up a film M in the meantime to create some lovely pictures.
I've decided the M will be working with a 50mm lens, probably just this lens as I also have an X100, which is 35mm, and a GRD III, which is 28mm.
I like shooting people so the 50mm seems the smart first choice and am thinking of a Summicron 50mm f/2 for it's size/cost, perhaps the IV version or a new one maybe as I intend to use the lens on the M9-P once I sell my kidneys and have the money.
This leaves the choice of M3 or M6 - what do you think?
I've got a lead on a M3 for about £600 which has apparently been serviced recently so should be in good condition although is naturally a little old.
I've also had someone offer my a M6 TTL 0.85 supposedly in great condition for £900.
I'm tempted by the M6 for a few reasons - firstly I'm coming from the digital age so whilst I intend to learn about the manual world, TTL metering would be useful.
Also, I shoot flash with my other cameras a fair amount and whilst I am not planning on it with the Leica (I want to do some lovely natural light portraits), one never knows if that could change and so having TTL flash ability would be useful.
Likewise the M6 TTL is newer so perhaps more reliable and w/the 0.85 frame line should be good for portraits/50mm lenses.
The M3 on the other hand is the classic and it's brighter viewfinder might be more useful for portraits where I need that critical focus, and, as this one has been recently services it shouldn't have any specific problems versus the M6 in reliability or performance, it's also cheaper.
What do you guys think? As I said, I want to take natural light portraits typically - also fashion type shots. Something that feels right etc.
Currently I'm thinking M6 TTL 0.85 is the smart decision as whilst it might not be 100% of the M3, it seems to have the advantage of technology in the metering etc and that seems a reasonable compromise for me. However, I don't know if the M3 is just the pure, fun choice, as I certainly want to enjoy the process so I'm open to advice!
Thanks for any suggestions!
DamenS
Well-known
The M6 TTL sounds right for you - and for all those reasons you've already listed above - M6's can even be "fun" too. Where did you get the impression that the M3 viewfinder is brighter than the M6 and are you referring to the finder or the rangefinder patch ?
However, if the M3 was a late serial number, with all the concomitant improvements (S/S wind, metal rather than glass film pressure plate, viewfinder frame selector and depth of field indicator) I would be sorely tempted to get the M3 instead.
However, if the M3 was a late serial number, with all the concomitant improvements (S/S wind, metal rather than glass film pressure plate, viewfinder frame selector and depth of field indicator) I would be sorely tempted to get the M3 instead.
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errorlogin
Love vintage Hifi, too!
Cannot speak for you, but I would go for the M3!
I had both and sold the M6 soon. I did not like the M6 quirky lightmeter inside the rangefinder. I did not like the worse built qualitiy (compared with M3). The whole camera did not give the "leicafeeling" to me. The cazy film advance lever etc...
The M3 is my camera. The finder is great. You can use it normally or with both eyes open, what I do most of the time.
I do not agree, that later serial numbers of the M3 are more desirable. Some things at the changes were just saving costs e.g. the old strap lugs (buddha ear lugs) were double riveted. The later ones have only one rivet and (if hardly used) sometines tend to loose and rotate, which cannot happen to the old lugs.
Earlier M3's have ball bearings at the back plate. Later ones do not....
Also the top plate is thicker at the old M3's compared to later M3's and some interior buildings are still made of metal compared to brass at the later serial numbers.
I had both and sold the M6 soon. I did not like the M6 quirky lightmeter inside the rangefinder. I did not like the worse built qualitiy (compared with M3). The whole camera did not give the "leicafeeling" to me. The cazy film advance lever etc...
The M3 is my camera. The finder is great. You can use it normally or with both eyes open, what I do most of the time.
I do not agree, that later serial numbers of the M3 are more desirable. Some things at the changes were just saving costs e.g. the old strap lugs (buddha ear lugs) were double riveted. The later ones have only one rivet and (if hardly used) sometines tend to loose and rotate, which cannot happen to the old lugs.
Earlier M3's have ball bearings at the back plate. Later ones do not....
Also the top plate is thicker at the old M3's compared to later M3's and some interior buildings are still made of metal compared to brass at the later serial numbers.
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kshapero
South Florida Man
I have had both. Initially I was put off by having no inboard meter. But it is not a problem. Go for the M3.
B.J.Scharp
Still developing
If you wear glasses => M6
If you don't wear glasses => M3
Also consider that the M6 has 75mm framelines. These enable you you use 75mm lenses (also nice for people-photos), but clutter the 50mm view, so if you're certain you're only going to use a 50mm, they're a bother.
Of course, it might also depend on how good your meterless skills are. If they're crap, you'll need an external meter with the M3.
If you don't wear glasses => M3
Also consider that the M6 has 75mm framelines. These enable you you use 75mm lenses (also nice for people-photos), but clutter the 50mm view, so if you're certain you're only going to use a 50mm, they're a bother.
Of course, it might also depend on how good your meterless skills are. If they're crap, you'll need an external meter with the M3.
andrew00
Established
You know I do actually wear glasses half the time, contacts the other. Do you say glasses w/the M6 b/c you can still see the framing if a little back from the viewfinder? Is a deal breaker do you feel or just a tick in the box?
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
The M6 shows frames in pairs: 35 and 135, 50 and 75. A 0.72 finder shows the 28 and 90 together too, not sure about the 0.85 finder.
The M3 shows a single frame line with a 50mm lens. Much calmer viewfinder. And bigger magnification to boot.
The M3 shows a single frame line with a 50mm lens. Much calmer viewfinder. And bigger magnification to boot.
B.J.Scharp
Still developing
I recently switched from glasses to contacts. The M3 was one of the reasons.
Being able to see the complete framelines is a big plus, but my primary reason was that my glasses were being damaged by the metal eyepiece.
But now that I'm used to them, the viewfinder is a lot bigger than with glasses, and this goes for my other cameras as well.
Being able to see the complete framelines is a big plus, but my primary reason was that my glasses were being damaged by the metal eyepiece.
But now that I'm used to them, the viewfinder is a lot bigger than with glasses, and this goes for my other cameras as well.
robbert
photography student
I have owned both, and if your single lens for the camera will be a 50mm I would def. recommend the M3.
If you think about the future of using a film M alongside the M9, maybe you should look into a 0.72 M6? That way if you plan to use a 35mm lens, you would also be able to use it on the film body. But if you will use 50mm only, M3 no doubt.
If you think about the future of using a film M alongside the M9, maybe you should look into a 0.72 M6? That way if you plan to use a 35mm lens, you would also be able to use it on the film body. But if you will use 50mm only, M3 no doubt.
robbert
photography student
Also I use flash alot, but never used the TTL functions of the M6TTL, I like manual flash much better, you can pick up a nice small sekonic light meter, for way less than the 300 pounds difference.
Also, why 35mm film for portraits? Have you thought about using Medium format? The camera prices are really low, especially compared to Leica.
I used to shoot Leica, but recently I've switched to 6x7 and even 4x5".
If it's about the size then I completely understand. But portraits on 4x5" (even 6x7) are lovely!
Also, why 35mm film for portraits? Have you thought about using Medium format? The camera prices are really low, especially compared to Leica.
I used to shoot Leica, but recently I've switched to 6x7 and even 4x5".
If it's about the size then I completely understand. But portraits on 4x5" (even 6x7) are lovely!
roboflick
Well-known
I have both but for 50mm. The m3 is best just get a hotshoe mounted meter like voigtlander vc ii. You will use it more if you do
Nik
Nik
Archlich
Well-known
I suggest you go for the M6. Otherwise once you are used to it, the M3 would pale the M9-P or even the MP (craftmanship wise).
BobYIL
Well-known
I have both. The M6 .85 is fine, I can see the 50mm frames with eyeglasses however the M3 on the other hand has a better finder, flare-proof, also the smoothest mechanism. (You will note the quality difference) If you can afford £900 then rather buy an excellent+ M3 and a small exposure meter to keep in your pocket and use it for many decades to come.
PatrickT
New Rangefinder User
Interesting post, as I am considering selling my M6 to get an M3 to primarily use a 50mm lens. My M6 is a .72 version however, and the 50mm frame is fairly small.
thegman
Veteran
If you're talking portraits in which people know you're taking them, then you can can probably spare a little time to meter with a handheld meter of some kind.
For me, I had an M6 and quickly sold it for an M3. It's a very personal choice, but I just found the M6 a bit lacking in "Leica magic", hard to explain why. I found it did not have the modern features of a ZI, nor the old school charm of an M3, so for me, just left me cold.
However, I got an M3 (now on my second, due to a fault with the first) and I think it's great, pure simplicity, beautiful to look at and several hundred pounds cheaper than the M6. If you're concerned about a steep learning curve coming from digital, I'd check out the Zeiss Ikon, cheaper than the M6 (and maybe even the M3) and it's an excellent camera. It's 50mm frame lines are just a tad small though.
For me, I had an M6 and quickly sold it for an M3. It's a very personal choice, but I just found the M6 a bit lacking in "Leica magic", hard to explain why. I found it did not have the modern features of a ZI, nor the old school charm of an M3, so for me, just left me cold.
However, I got an M3 (now on my second, due to a fault with the first) and I think it's great, pure simplicity, beautiful to look at and several hundred pounds cheaper than the M6. If you're concerned about a steep learning curve coming from digital, I'd check out the Zeiss Ikon, cheaper than the M6 (and maybe even the M3) and it's an excellent camera. It's 50mm frame lines are just a tad small though.
N.delaRua
Well-known
Totally agree with the above post. If you subject is someone who is willing to stick around for more than 2 minutes than a handheld meter and a M3 will save you some change. M3's have flash sockets anyway, and flash metering with a handheld meter is more accurate than any TTL system I've ever tried.
Either way you can't go wrong, but you might actually learn more aboute exposure using a handheld meter than you would with a TTL camera. I feel like the more readings you take, the more you understand light and get a feel for EV values.
Either way you can't go wrong, but you might actually learn more aboute exposure using a handheld meter than you would with a TTL camera. I feel like the more readings you take, the more you understand light and get a feel for EV values.
jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
M3 need a mod to focus down to 0.8m, regularly down to 1m, M6 to 0.7m afaik.
frankly I dont like RF for portraits at all...
frankly I dont like RF for portraits at all...
bwcolor
Veteran
I purchased a couple of M3's for fast 50 and 90mm. I also have an M6TTL (0.58x & Sherry did MP finder upgrade). All of the complaints, probably overblown, regarding flare scared me away from the 0.85x finder. I had Don modify one of my cameras to focus to 0.7M. He didn't charge much, but you never know what the turn around time will be. I also sent my fast 50 & 90mm lenses to make sure focus was dead on. You best decide if you need the meter. If not, M3.. if you need it.. M6.