M4-2 - A sad legend?

[rolleistef]

Hello all,
I'm vaguely thinking about investing in a user Leica M, and since the M4-2 has sometimes got a bad reputation (reliability, Canada...) it's not that expensive. The question : is that reputation justified or not?

 

[chris91387]

my m4-2 was made in 1978 and works perfectly. no complaints.

- chris

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Look Here:

http://www.nemeng.com/leica/016b.shtml

Andrew sums it up nicely.

 

[VictorM.]

My M4-2 (1979) has been fault-free!

 

[xayraa33]

I been using two M4-2 bodies which I bought new in 1978 and 1980 and have been running great since.
People make too much of the M4-2s so called short comings.

 

[35mmdelux]

any Leica depends on the mileage and if it has been CLA'd. These are excellent rigs, get a warranty of some sort if you buy from store. Otherwise, like anything else, buyer beware.

 

[cinematix]

I had one and it was perfect. I sold it but still miss....

 

[JNewell]

Depends who you ask. Most users had no problems. But I know of a couple of repair people who, if asked, will say they're dogs. But remember, they are the lightning rod for these issues. No one calls to say "I'd like to not have you repair my M4-2 because contrary to internet lore it continues to work perfectly."

 

[xayraa33]

It makes me wonder about all the Leica models after the M4-2
including the new MP, did Leica revert to the build standard of the M4, M3 and M2 with all the traditional provisions for minor adjustments bult in?
I suspect not, as build cost savings was the intention of the M4-2 , a standard that was kept to the present day models.
No one seems to question the build quality of the M6, M7 or the MP, as any teething problem that the M4-2 had , has long been fixed in 30 or so years.

 

[payasam]

Can't say if the bad reputation was deserved. Anyhow, you can take heart from what Erik said.

 

[Ororaro]

I prefer my M4-P, which is almost the same as m4-2, to any other M I've tried. It's that good.

The M4-2, besides having stonger steal gears, is all black in front, a thing the Black tape lovers are supposed to respect. I mean, every Leica user hates the logo and the red dot... And altough the M4-2 provides extra stealthiness it's still maligned.

After all, to think of it, I deduct the M4-2 hate was simply started by Classic M chauvinists and has nothing to do with the real world.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I prefer my M4-P, which is almost the same as m4-2, to any other M I've tried. It's that good.
.

Interesting you say that. Yes, mine has been reliable since I bought it new 25 or more years ago, but it is also the roughest Leica I've ever used; I had to switch to an M2 under some lighting conditions to get rid of rangefinder patch flare-out; and the black chrome finish rubbed so badly in the first 18 months or so that a Leica dealer friend recommended returning it under warranty. (I didn't becuse it was to use, not to show off).

Even so, there was no need to get anything newer until the MP came out.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[JNewell]

It makes me wonder about all the Leica models after the M4-2

Production had been mostly (though not exclusively) carried out in Wetzlar until the M4-2. There was Canadian M2, M3 and M4 production, but not in large numbers. My guess is that the combination of materials changes, production method changes and moving what passes for large-scale production in the Leica world to a new facility combined to produce a learning curve that took a while to get on top of. By the time the M4-P came out, the problems had been sorted out.

The other factor is that most manufactured products have some issues in early production (e.g., cars). This has been true of every Leica M body, I think, including the vaunted M3 and M4 models. So, even without the factors guessed at above, you could have expected some issues with early M4-2 production.

 

[rolleistef]

Thanks a lot. so in fact, the M4-2 being not as well made as the M1 to 5, it's not that sought after... But finally Leica only revert the building quality from "perfect" to "fantastic" and it was the building quality they kept till the M6 TTL. Plus the troubles they had with earlier production batches... well, isnt it a legend we need to conserve so that the M4-2 remains an affordable first-price camera? 😉

 

[Ronald M]

All production starting with the M4-2 used different machining methods. Rather than adjustment points, the parts were supposed to be made perfectly to tighter tolerences. There were some early glitches with this process.

The whole world has gone to numeric control machining now with far better quality control than was ever possible before.

 

[xayraa33]

Thanks a lot. so in fact, the M4-2 being not as well made as the M1 to 5, it's not that sought after... But finally Leica only revert the building quality from "perfect" to "fantastic" and it was the building quality they kept till the M6 TTL. Plus the troubles they had with earlier production batches... well, isnt it a legend we need to conserve so that the M4-2 remains an affordable first-price camera? 😉

yes,keep telling everyone that the Leica M4-2 is a crappy camera,and the M4-P is also a piece of sh1t.
makes them affordable for all of us.

 

[Andrew3511]

I suspect that natural selection has by now got rid of the dogs and the surviving M4-2's will be excellent users. I have a very battered M4-P with a light leak from what someone has done to the rear door. But it still works very well indeed with a good clear viewfinder and quiet accurate shutter. M4's have this reputation for being the last "proper" Leica. As a result M2's and M4-2's/M4-P's are relative bargains. Long may it continue. You won't regret buying one.

 

[xayraa33]

Other than shutter curtain bounce, and certain ones that came out of the box with stiff wind lever action, those were all the problems I was aware of, and these were quickly sent back to Leitz Midland for repair.
The change in the RF construction that caused the RF patch to white out happened around the middle of the M4-2s production and was present on all later M Leicas to the M6.

 

[maddoc]

I replaced my MP with a M4-P... 🙂 Don't know about the M4-2 but it should be an equivalent well-build camera as the M4-P.

 

[laptoprob]

I recently sold my M2 and kept my (early)M4-2. I didn't notice real difference between the two. Yes, the advance feels and sounds a little different, but so do different specimens of the same type too.
So I kept the M4-2 because of features mostly. 135mm frames, motor capability (I also have a great working motor), flash hotshoe (although never used yet).
The camera works like a charm for me. Do note I don't have the later flaring rangefinder. Mine comes has the best vintage, I think.