RdEoSg
Well-known
So my M4 sucks. When I bought it and got my first roll of film back I discovered that it had some issues. It has uneven exposures and marks.
I sent the camera in to a well known Leica repair specialist and they replaced one of the curtains and did a full CLA to the camera. When I got it back, the exposures were better and the marks were gone, but it was still showing shutter bounce problems, and had developed a strange light leak that would show up on one or two frames of a roll, in the middle of the frame, not on the edging or sprocket holes.
I sent the camera back in again, and they fixed the shutter bounce and thought they fixed the fogging but it persisted. I sent the camera in again (third time) and they once again went through the camera checking light seals etc and said they thought it was good now.
It was not. So I sent it in for the 4th time to them and they spent more time going through it, checking for leaks, adding additional seals to fix the problem. They shot a roll themselves and told me it showed no leaks and they thought it was finally fixed.
This is my first roll after receiving it back. As you can see, it's gone from bad to worse. Not only are the light leaks still there, but they are far worse, now showing up in the sprocket holes and edging of the rolls too. In addition you can see that the bad exposures, shutter bounce etc are all back again as well.
I've used different types of film, I've used different lenses. I've shined light through the shutter curtains, I've shined light through the front and back of the rangefinder windows. I've shined light through the rear door, I've shined it though the bottom with the plate off. I can't find the leak anywhere but obviously there is one and it's not small.
I am currently in discussions for a full refund for the camera repairs. They want another chance at it, I've told them no.
I'm probably going to send it in to Youxin Ye and give him a shot since I'm in the US. I've heard good things and have already spoken to him by email about this.
I'm just scratching my head and hoping by some chance someone else has experienced something similar and has an opinion on how they fixed it!
I'm not new to Leicas or to film cameras and have worked in a camera store for nearly 20 years so I do know my way around cameras, film, processing etc.
HELP!
I sent the camera in to a well known Leica repair specialist and they replaced one of the curtains and did a full CLA to the camera. When I got it back, the exposures were better and the marks were gone, but it was still showing shutter bounce problems, and had developed a strange light leak that would show up on one or two frames of a roll, in the middle of the frame, not on the edging or sprocket holes.
I sent the camera back in again, and they fixed the shutter bounce and thought they fixed the fogging but it persisted. I sent the camera in again (third time) and they once again went through the camera checking light seals etc and said they thought it was good now.
It was not. So I sent it in for the 4th time to them and they spent more time going through it, checking for leaks, adding additional seals to fix the problem. They shot a roll themselves and told me it showed no leaks and they thought it was finally fixed.
This is my first roll after receiving it back. As you can see, it's gone from bad to worse. Not only are the light leaks still there, but they are far worse, now showing up in the sprocket holes and edging of the rolls too. In addition you can see that the bad exposures, shutter bounce etc are all back again as well.
I've used different types of film, I've used different lenses. I've shined light through the shutter curtains, I've shined light through the front and back of the rangefinder windows. I've shined light through the rear door, I've shined it though the bottom with the plate off. I can't find the leak anywhere but obviously there is one and it's not small.
I am currently in discussions for a full refund for the camera repairs. They want another chance at it, I've told them no.
I'm probably going to send it in to Youxin Ye and give him a shot since I'm in the US. I've heard good things and have already spoken to him by email about this.
I'm just scratching my head and hoping by some chance someone else has experienced something similar and has an opinion on how they fixed it!
I'm not new to Leicas or to film cameras and have worked in a camera store for nearly 20 years so I do know my way around cameras, film, processing etc.
HELP!
Attachments
fad gadget
Established
That's a nuisance.
Youxin's done a half dozen M's and a lllg for me, they're all brilliant!
Youxin's done a half dozen M's and a lllg for me, they're all brilliant!
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Could be wrong, but last photo doesn't look like a light leak to me. Light lights are supposed to be white on positive right?
Regards
Marcelo
Regards
Marcelo
RdEoSg
Well-known
Correct. That is shutter bounce I believe.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
And the name of the repair firm that has had four cracks at fixing it?
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Also, why did they only repaired one curtain? was the other ok? umm The way I see it, it is a curtain related issue.
Marcelo
Marcelo
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
For the records, I have 2 M4 with broken curtains, waiting for budget to get repaired. Seems shutter curtains on M4 where a bit weak.
Marcelo
Marcelo
charjohncarter
Veteran
I agree that looks very similar to my IIIf shutter bounce. I also have used too many repair persons to fix this and got charged for a CLA which each one prior had done. So, be more specific with your request which I wasn't because I didn't understand what was wrong, and tell them to only fix the problem you want fixed. Then if they do that tell them you will send it back for a CLA but not first.
This WAS my Shutter Bounce:
Kodak 400 Max expired by John Carter, on Flickr
RdEoSg
Well-known
One curtain had problems with the vulcanized rubber. It was all splotchy and bubbly. The other curtain looks fine. I admit I'm curious myself as to whether the curtain they replaced isn't correct. Too small, out of alignment etc. There seems to be something to the fact that the light leaks didn't start until then. In addition, obviously uneven exposures and shutter bounce are caused by the shutter so there's definitely something there. As to why there are also light leaks hitting the sprocket holes and edging of the film I am not sure. Two problems possibly, shutter and rear door?
As for which shop, I'm not going to say right now. I've used them for years and they've always done a good job, this seems to be the aberration. I'm also still dealing with getting a refund with them.
As for which shop, I'm not going to say right now. I've used them for years and they've always done a good job, this seems to be the aberration. I'm also still dealing with getting a refund with them.
bluesun267
Well-known
I think just about everyone here will recommend Sherry Krauter (Golden Touch) and Don Goldberg (DAG)...these two are the foremost experts on Leica in the US.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Send it to Youxin.
There are a few threads on RFF about Leica repair folks and a recent one regarding Sherry. I have made my comments there so I won't reiterate them but I will sum up by saying "never again."
Every single interaction I've had with Youxin has been outstanding. His custome service is top rate and he does a real good job on Leicas.
Phil Forrest
There are a few threads on RFF about Leica repair folks and a recent one regarding Sherry. I have made my comments there so I won't reiterate them but I will sum up by saying "never again."
Every single interaction I've had with Youxin has been outstanding. His custome service is top rate and he does a real good job on Leicas.
Phil Forrest
Huss
Veteran
Yes to DAG.
I won't say anything else... and I'm not alone here. Do a recent search.
Peter Jennings
Well-known
There is a procedure to track down the leak yourself. Approach it with a scientific mind. Tape up the rear door and make a couple exposures. Tape up the bottom plate and make a couple more. Make a couple with a lens cap on, as well. Remove the tape and make a couple more with lens cap on. Make a record of the procedure and check the negatives. Someone here might have a more detailed approach. Ive never needed to do it myself, but I’ve heard of it being done.
If YOU know where the problem is, it’ll be much easier to tell the repairman what you want done.
Best of luck!
If YOU know where the problem is, it’ll be much easier to tell the repairman what you want done.
Best of luck!
Huss
Veteran
Didn't someone once mention about getting a light leak through the RF window?
RdEoSg
Well-known
Thanks for the replies! So I’ve done a roll like peter suggested, taping up sections at a time to try and pinpoint the problem. I’ll get the roll back mid week and hopefully have a few answers.
I think it’s probably going to go to Youxin Ye for repair but before I send it I’d like to see if the film shows anything that I can pass on information wise..
I think it’s probably going to go to Youxin Ye for repair but before I send it I’d like to see if the film shows anything that I can pass on information wise..
Erik van Straten
Veteran
It can also be a light leak trough the hole of the strap lug in the "exposed" film chamber, so the left one seen from front.
It is sad that so many good Leica repairmen are out of business now. Repairing the M-Leicas is not as simple as it seems.
Erik.
It is sad that so many good Leica repairmen are out of business now. Repairing the M-Leicas is not as simple as it seems.
Erik.
Highway 61
Revisited
The M4 shutter is known for some weakness of the black metal slats in which the shutter curtains ends are taken (without any glue). On yours one shutter curtain may begin to get out of its slat and not be fully parallel to the film gate. Check this (remove the lens and carefully inspect the areas where the shutter curtains ends are taken in the slats, shutter cocked and shutter uncocked).
RdEoSg
Well-known
I’ll take a closer look at the lugs area and the shutter curtain slats, thank you!
traveler_101
American abroad
Wow, four rounds: how much is this costing you? I have flirted with the idea of getting a M camera for some time, but this certainly doesn't encourage me.
RdEoSg
Well-known
Don’t let this be an example of Leica. I’ve been owned three and this is the only problem one. You’ll find the vast majority of people do not have this problem. This is the exception, not the rule.