Rangeman133
Established
I'm struggling really hard here. Got decisions to make this week. Currently, I have an m6 and a recently acquired m8. I can't afford to keep both. I either sell the m6, or return the m8.
My only lens is a 50mm summicron, and I love that fov on the m6. I also like the bright, clear frame lines, and the handling of the camera. I prefer the act of shooting film, and the results I get from film. But I seriously dislike the developing and scanning.
I've only had a few days to try out the m8. So far, I definitely enjoy it. But obviously not ideal for low light, problems with the frame lines. Not liking the fov as much. Absolutey hate editing photos in software like capture one, mainly because i'm not good at it. but obviously like the immediate results, not having to develop/scan.
It really does come down to film vs digital. And I like the pro's of film (imo, its aesthetically superior to digital), but the negatives (haha) of developing/scanning takes too much time. i don't enjoy that process as much as i use to. as for the m8, pro's of immediate results, but negatives of editing. for some reason, i can't get good results from dng files. they have to be edited, and i now realize that it really is an art in itself.
right now, i'm leaning towards selling both the m6 and 50mm summicron, and getting a 28mm lens, or 35mm lens for the m8. but when i pick up the m6, and look through the viewfinder, i just can't seem to part ways with it! this is assuming i can somehow learn how to post process dng files properly. maybe i'm not exposing properly in the m8? i'm not sure, but i guess i'll test it out some more, before deciding on it.
Got any advice? From the searches I've done, it seems that it really does come down to film vs digital. I just can't seem to get good results from the m8 so far, and I know that thats because of my own lack of skills when it comes to editing, and nailing exposure.
My only lens is a 50mm summicron, and I love that fov on the m6. I also like the bright, clear frame lines, and the handling of the camera. I prefer the act of shooting film, and the results I get from film. But I seriously dislike the developing and scanning.
I've only had a few days to try out the m8. So far, I definitely enjoy it. But obviously not ideal for low light, problems with the frame lines. Not liking the fov as much. Absolutey hate editing photos in software like capture one, mainly because i'm not good at it. but obviously like the immediate results, not having to develop/scan.
It really does come down to film vs digital. And I like the pro's of film (imo, its aesthetically superior to digital), but the negatives (haha) of developing/scanning takes too much time. i don't enjoy that process as much as i use to. as for the m8, pro's of immediate results, but negatives of editing. for some reason, i can't get good results from dng files. they have to be edited, and i now realize that it really is an art in itself.
right now, i'm leaning towards selling both the m6 and 50mm summicron, and getting a 28mm lens, or 35mm lens for the m8. but when i pick up the m6, and look through the viewfinder, i just can't seem to part ways with it! this is assuming i can somehow learn how to post process dng files properly. maybe i'm not exposing properly in the m8? i'm not sure, but i guess i'll test it out some more, before deciding on it.
Got any advice? From the searches I've done, it seems that it really does come down to film vs digital. I just can't seem to get good results from the m8 so far, and I know that thats because of my own lack of skills when it comes to editing, and nailing exposure.
tomalophicon
Well-known
Get the M6. It will last forever, the M8 most certainly will not.
ramosa
B&W
Big decision: film vs digital. Really only you can decide that. But I will say that I, too, really don't like 50mm lenses on the M8. So, if you decide on the M8, I would recommend a 28mm or 35mm lens as your main lens. That makes for a much more enjoyable and productive time.
NaChase
Well-known
The M6 is a timeless classic, you will regret selling it!
huntjump
Well-known
M6 + R-D1 , so you can share lenses and afford both..
But to address your specific question: If you don't need immediate results, then the m6 is the long run, smart decision. If you work primarily with color, then m8 probably.
I've used most M's and sold my m8. This is a question you will ultimately find is only answerable by you. whatever said in this thread will just help you justify what you already knew
But to address your specific question: If you don't need immediate results, then the m6 is the long run, smart decision. If you work primarily with color, then m8 probably.
I've used most M's and sold my m8. This is a question you will ultimately find is only answerable by you. whatever said in this thread will just help you justify what you already knew
kshapero
South Florida Man
I went M6 and I am old and wise.
Rangeman133
Established
i actually thought about that too, but it became less important because i really don't expect the m8 to last more than 2 or 3 years. and by that time, i'd probably upgrade.
couldn't agree more. i just don't think the 50mm is suited for the m8 at all. for me, its the fov, but more than that, its the frame lines in the m9 for 50mm. i just can't get use to it.
you are definitely right. its been sitting on the side the past few days, while i play with the m8. but every time i pick it up, put the 50mm lens on it, and look throughout the viewfinder, it simply feels 'right'.
seriously don't know what to do. either way, i'm going to regret something. wish i could keep both!!!
wafflecakee
Well-known
If it were an m8.2 this might be a more difficult question, the m8 just isn't that good. To me the answer will always be film though.
Rangeman133
Established
really good points! i don't need immediate results. but i'd rather be out shooting, than bother with developing and scanning. i'm still in the learning process, so its important for me to get my film developed, to see what i'm getting. otherwise i'd probably just shoot, and not worry about developiong/scanning, and just do it all at the end of the year or something, lol.
personally, i do enjoy color more than black and white. but i'm not good with color though, lol. with black and white, no matter how much i try, i cannot replicate or get the same look as tri-x 1600 in diafine. i love that combo, and recently took some pics with it, and it blows me away.
but you're right, in my mind, i am sort of leaning/set on keeping the m8, and getting a 28mm or 35mm lens to go along with it. subconsciously, i probably did make this thread for some justification for it, lol.
filmfan
Well-known
Easy.
One of the best 35mm film bodies ever to be made, or one of the most disappointing digital cameras ever to be released...
One of the best 35mm film bodies ever to be made, or one of the most disappointing digital cameras ever to be released...
daveywaugh
Blah
Another consideration might be investigating other film to digital alternatives... not sure what your current dev/scanning workflow is, but perhaps it could be improved? Outsourcing perhaps... a better scanner / software... improved profiles...? Just a thought anyway. I personally quite enjoy developing and scanning but then I've got a 'system' now. Processing digital RAW files is hardly faster IMO...
Reddot9
This Is Not Here
Keep the M6 and find someone else to do the developing and scanning. Though I have an M9 which is truly a wonderful camera, as said before, the M6 will last forever. The M8 and M9 will not prove to be that robust or long lasting. Digitally, things change frequently, mechanical M's changed very slowly. Totally different animals. I will never give up my M6 no matter how many pixels future digital M's have.
huntjump
Well-known
i seriously think you should take a closer look at the R-d1. You said: digital Rf, Color primarily, immediate results needed and money is an issue.
R-D1 + zeiss 25mm = 36mm equivalent and its really good with b&W at 1600. nothing compares to the feel of the M, and i do love doing b&w on film. The m6 stays. the r-d1 allowed me to do it and is amazing in and of itself.
R-D1 + zeiss 25mm = 36mm equivalent and its really good with b&W at 1600. nothing compares to the feel of the M, and i do love doing b&w on film. The m6 stays. the r-d1 allowed me to do it and is amazing in and of itself.
Rangeman133
Established
right now, i'm developing b/w tri-x with diafine. this is very straight forward, and i'm scanning with plustek 7600. for color, i'm using cvs films, and having it developed their. and i scan on the plustek. its not that bad, and i don't shoot daily. but when i do shoot, i shoot about 4 to 5 rolls at a time. and it a headache to scan/develop everything. i have rolls here that haven't been developed for weeks. and i don't even feel like getting them developed. i'm also a beginner shooter, so i only get 1 or 2 shots that i really like per roll. i was thinking that with digital, i could practice more, and that way, get more keepers with film if i ever do return to film.
Rangeman133
Established
this could be the answer for me. budget wise, i think it does make sense too. this way, i would definitely be able to keep both the m6 and r-d1. i'm definitely going to look into this again. thanks for pointing this out! i do see r-d1's on classified now and then, and at times, i have thought about buying one..
huntjump
Well-known
dedicating myself to film in my journey to the RF world was maybe one of my best decisions in my time doing photography, in general. how much i grew was such a rewarding experience, and granted this is a personal reflection and self review...but the process of film is part of the learning. You should consider at the rate you photograph and burn through rolls, developing the film yourself (4-5 a month) seems manageable. You can convert any bathroom or closet into dark rooms. Unless you really dont have any time whatsoever, i think you should rethink everything
I had to learn to appreciate the wait and see of filmzwarte_kat
Well-known
M6
M6
If you read my posts/threads, you'll see that I have been contemplating the digital versus film thing as well, and that I have tried various digital cameras including the M8. Here is why I think you should keep the M6:
1. By properly editing a DNG file you can get the film look for the M8, but for the time and effort it takes, you might as well shoot straight to film. Any quality increases from digital (though not too many from the M8 with 10MP) will also be reduced when putting those heavy "film simulation" effects on files. Sure some people will say they you can do it it quickly by exporting a tiff for a silver FX preset bla bla bla, whatever. Check Flickr, most M8/M9 files don't look that good compared to the shots from the film M's. People don't want to heavily edit each shot, leaving stale files as they are.
2. Though the digital M's come close, Film is still more straightforward and enjoyable to shoot. Period. You can never trick yourself into thinking otherwise. The fact that you ask this question proves it.
You have to turn on the camera each time, or check if it's on or woken up or whatever, what iso setting was it in? Did it really take the pic? Let's check the LCD. Let's zoom in to 100% to check the pixels... to check the motherf@%#$ng PIXELS! You don't have to, but you will, because you can.
Film: look, click, put your camera away. You don't have to check because you're confident and awesome!
4. I think that right now we are in some sort of a transition period in terms of cameras. DSLR's will loose interest by most people within 5-10 years, because they are still too analog. New mirrorless cameras will take over, though I am not sure in what shape. I think it is still too early to buy a digital rangefinder equivalent. And there are too many other cool digital options for less money. Don't put your racing horse before a cart or your ox on the track, use each one for it's advantages,
5. Sell the M8 now that you can still get some money for it. Optimize your film workflow with for example a better scanner. Get a small digital point and shoot like the GRD(1/2/3/4) or Fuji X10, depending on what you like. Use digital for every day shooting, and use the M6 on the days when you have time too shoot and enjoy shooting. You'll get both beauty and REAL digital convenience without too much hassles. Nothing but the best for you
M6
If you read my posts/threads, you'll see that I have been contemplating the digital versus film thing as well, and that I have tried various digital cameras including the M8. Here is why I think you should keep the M6:
1. By properly editing a DNG file you can get the film look for the M8, but for the time and effort it takes, you might as well shoot straight to film. Any quality increases from digital (though not too many from the M8 with 10MP) will also be reduced when putting those heavy "film simulation" effects on files. Sure some people will say they you can do it it quickly by exporting a tiff for a silver FX preset bla bla bla, whatever. Check Flickr, most M8/M9 files don't look that good compared to the shots from the film M's. People don't want to heavily edit each shot, leaving stale files as they are.
2. Though the digital M's come close, Film is still more straightforward and enjoyable to shoot. Period. You can never trick yourself into thinking otherwise. The fact that you ask this question proves it.
You have to turn on the camera each time, or check if it's on or woken up or whatever, what iso setting was it in? Did it really take the pic? Let's check the LCD. Let's zoom in to 100% to check the pixels... to check the motherf@%#$ng PIXELS! You don't have to, but you will, because you can.
Film: look, click, put your camera away. You don't have to check because you're confident and awesome!
4. I think that right now we are in some sort of a transition period in terms of cameras. DSLR's will loose interest by most people within 5-10 years, because they are still too analog. New mirrorless cameras will take over, though I am not sure in what shape. I think it is still too early to buy a digital rangefinder equivalent. And there are too many other cool digital options for less money. Don't put your racing horse before a cart or your ox on the track, use each one for it's advantages,
5. Sell the M8 now that you can still get some money for it. Optimize your film workflow with for example a better scanner. Get a small digital point and shoot like the GRD(1/2/3/4) or Fuji X10, depending on what you like. Use digital for every day shooting, and use the M6 on the days when you have time too shoot and enjoy shooting. You'll get both beauty and REAL digital convenience without too much hassles. Nothing but the best for you
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
I'll second--or third--the suggestion of an R-D1. I wrote a long post about it in the R-D1 forum just last week. I wandered away from rangefinders a while back for lack of an affordable digital alternative and bought an R-D1 just for giggles while I was waiting for a Ricoh GXR M mount. I had a blast with the R-D1 and yes, as suggested, a Zeiss 25mm. Just love the files from it, right from the camera. The JPEGs are excellent. Great color, great monochrome mode, and the 1600 is pretty usable. Read my post for more (a lot more) but I think this might be for you. I forgot how fun photography can be until I got the R-D1 again.
I foolishly sold it for an M8, then sold that, and now have the R-D1 again. Happy.
And thinking about getting an M6!
I foolishly sold it for an M8, then sold that, and now have the R-D1 again. Happy.
And thinking about getting an M6!
Rangeman133
Established
my heart is definitely leaning toward film. but in practice, its going to be difficult to find time. in the past 8 years, i have been a student, and i've had lots of time to shoot, develop, and scan. but starting this year, i'm beginning my medical residency, and the amount of hours i will be working is insane. this may sound like an excuse, but a big part of my reason for going digital is to save time. its difficult, because deep down, i really want to keep the m6, and the 50mm summicron, which is perfect. i have a week before i can send the m8 back, so got plenty of time to make a decision. thanks everyone for your advice. some really good points!
hausen
Well-known
Would be a no brainer for me. Have an M6 and M9 and I never leave home without M6.