M8 in 07 $4,750 M9 2010 $7,000. Why?

E

eleskin

Well-known
Local time
5:27 AM
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,080
I am sure the response to this will be Leica is a small company, and has low production numbers, new technology costs, etc,,,,

But have you noticed in edition to the M9, EVERYTHING is going up?

Cable ,electric, health insurance, college tuition, etc,,,,

Except what some of us are paid. I know there are some who have alot of $$$$, but most photographers are not in that position at all!

I plan on buying the M9, but this time, it is going to hurt alot more than when the M8 came out (I was hoping they would price it the same as the M8.2, but not to be!).

At some point, this will have to end. A $10,000 M10 is a not sane at all in a market where these products are replaced every 2-3 years. Something has to change, along with everything else. My daughter is 5 now. When she goes to college, what will it cost? Half a million or more? (Oxford in UK today is under $10,000!!!).

Leica, Universities, the Health Care Industry, Government (Rising Taxes Anyone?), must realize this cannot go on forever.

By the way, with relations woth Russia improving, where is the peace dividend? Mabe Ike was right in his last speech to the American People!!!
 
Well, 5500 Euro was and is generally considered very reasonable for a FF Leica M, as the M8 three years before was 4200 Euro and Leica still IS a European company that calculates in Euros....
 
Last edited:
Yeh, I forgot the Euro thing. That really makes alot of Americans upset including me. I really wish it was one Dollar per Euro. My wife is from Portugal and she complains about it all the time. Her parents are dual citizens and they complain about it. As a matter of fact, they say most people in Portugal HATE the Euro feeling that the Euro has made live much more expensive for them! So much for the efforts of politicians and bankers (I call them "BANKSTAS").

And so life goes on. I will be an M9 customer (after tax season here in the USA) probably later in the summer (August) when I have enough money. My wife will not be happy though!
 
It probably helps to know a little about sensor production.
This little diagram should shed some light on the issue.

2gw9pih.jpg
 
I imagine the higher cost of the larger sensor, the weakening dollar, and general inflation all contribute. Coming out of a recession inflation could get worse before it gets better.
 
You would have to ask Leica for specifics, and they are not going to release those. Who would? Part of why I bought an M8 was to let Leica know this was a product I wanted them to continue to develop. I will buy an M9 because it is the product that I want.

R&D is extremely expensive. I can not imagine that Kodak and Leica found the solution to a full frame sensor without great cost. Neither is looking at large production numbers to offset the cost. I don't like the price either, but I do understand they need to make a profit. I do not shop cameras, but I have read that it is in line with other bodies in this tier. As for the economy, I can't imagine that Leica wouldn't like to see a strong dollar. But, they sure don't have a say in it.

But, you already new all this didn't you?
 
Remember the M8 was $4795 for less than a year. Then although every other digital camera gets cheaper once there's good supply and part of its product life is gone, Leica raised the price to $4995, and then $5395. Then the M8.2 came along, which differs very little from the M8 (and not at all in image quality) at $6300. So I think the M9 at $7000 really needs to be compared to that, not the initial price of the M8. But it's a good thing for Leica that (evidently) the majority of their customers are either immune to the economic downturn, inflation, etc., or else they just put camera buying in the top end of their priority list. I personally don't fit in either category.
 
Leica M9 is a bargain

Leica M9 is a bargain

Well in New Zealand any way.
Leica M8 Body only 10701/02
– $8,575.00 NZD ($6,327.91 USD)

Leica M8.2 body only 10711/12
– $10,150.00 NZD ($7,490.19 USD)

Leica M9 Body only 10704/05
– $9,900.00 NZD ($7,305.70USD)
 
Last edited:
$4750 in euros on January 19th '07: 3682€

$7000 in euros today: 4895€

So in hard currency you're paying about 1200€ more for full-frame, with 3 years inflation: about 33% more expensive. Fair, I'd say. In 1936 a III body was £25:6s and a II body was £18: about 40% more expensive. Were the slow speeds worth the extra money? About the same sort of increase as full-frame, in my book...

And yes, inflation can go on forever. In fact, it has done for most of history in most countries. Otherwise we could still buy a Leica II for £18.

Cheers,

R.
 
Last edited:
The M8 was a half frame sensor, the M8 is a full frame sensor. Check the price difference between Canon & Nikon full frame and half frame sensors and you'll see about the same price difference. No mystery.
 
I know that Norway is an expensive country to live in, but you should count yourselves lucky. The M9 costs nigh on $9500 here, with the current exchange rate. A white edtion M8 w/28 ASPH nearly $12000! No wonder Jarle is thinking of any which way to fund an M9.
 
eleskin said:
But have you noticed in edition to the M9, EVERYTHING is going up?

Cable ,electric, health insurance, college tuition, etc,,,,
Click to expand...

Yep! During the high market time the argument is poor availability/high prices, raw materials, utilities, whatever, and during the low market time the argument is rising general expenses due to low volumes etc etc. But, eventually, in many cases we as consumers (and in some cases as professional buyers) can only blame ourselves for accepting to pay these prices. That is not to say there are of course situations where there's no alternatives.
 
Catalog price

Catalog price

Hi, i have a bhphoto catalog from mid year 2009, and the price for the m8.2 is 5,99x and so 6,999 for the FF m9 is not such a big difference,.
the diff tween 07 and 09 is due to economics.

Bye.
 
The reason kinda doesn't matter all that much to me... but the different between what the M8 was brand new and what the M9 is brand new is enough that I can't afford it. At least if it were $4500-$5000 I could sell the M8 and make a dent in the purchase price, but that just isn't the case now. I'll be waiting quite a while until used M9s hit the market and much lower prices (probably when the M10 comes out! LOL)

And yes, everything else has gone up A LOT in 3 years... and in that time I haven't gotten one raise.
 
Most guys could buy an M8.2 by just not buying beer for a year (Impossible you say? )...

I agree with this statement only if you substitute my annual spending on single malt Scotch :D
 
Roger Hicks said:
So in hard currency you're paying about 1200€ more for full-frame, with 3 years inflation: about 33% more expensive. Fair, I'd say.

And yes, inflation can go on forever. In fact, it has done for most of history in most countries.
Cheers,

R.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for things on your side of the Atlantic Roger, as I haven't been there since the end of '07, due in large part to the currency exchange. But here in the US, almost nothing is anywhere near 33% more expensive than it was 3 years ago. Not even as a result of rising gasoline prices. In my profession, fees have not gone up at all, and in fact I know many dental surgeons who place implants who have lowered their fees. Restaurant prices haven't risen, nor have any service-business prices either. Even the prices on German cars like Mercedes and BMW here have not gone up at all. Last fall Porsche dealers were heavily discounting remaining MY09 stock, which was something that nobody remembers when the last time that happened. From my perspective the rise in cost of Leica product (lenses in particular) is way out of whack with either inflation or for that matter currency fluctuation. I don't mean to be argumentative, but "because they can" seems like the only one that's actually a reason vs an excuse.
 
I think Ben Z is right in his comments about Leica's price increases vs. other companies like Mercedes, etc,,,,

This attitude that if you can afford a Leica you can afford anything is pure bull. I know there are many who wear photo jewelry, but photographers select tools to present their vision in photographs, and most photographers do not shop at Saks 5th Ave or Neiman Marcus. What is the average pay for most photographers? $27,000 and up per year?

Lets face it, artists are always on the lower economic end of things, and their supplies are getting more expensive by the day. The least some companies shoud do is keep things reasonable. A 33% hike in pricing within the time frame discussed, especially in these hard economic times is bad policy!

Art can best be supported if everyone else plays ball more fairly, and here, Leica should at least make sure 33% price increases are not the norm!
 
Roger Hicks said:
And yes, inflation can go on forever. In fact, it has done for most of history in most countries. Otherwise we could still buy a Leica II for £18.
Click to expand...

And just imagine what salaries would be like.
Not to speak of how people would love to invest in things if they didn't have the idea that they might cost more in the future.

Moderate inflation can be a good thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom