M8 or M8.2 as a sidekick to the R-D1s?

--

Well-known
Local time
9:07 AM
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
492
I like the output of my R-D1s tremendously but I am also a gear addict. I have been eyeing 2nd hand M8s for a while [the M9 is simply too expensive and wide angles are not my thing anyway] but cannot really make my mind up.

The standard M8 is reasonably priced whereas the M8.2 is not altogether cheap. I do fancy the improvements though.

What did you feel after supplementing you Epson rangefinder (or replacing it) with the M8/M8.2?

And could you get used to the non 1:1 viewfinder?

There are several things I prefer from the Epson line, but I would not mind the 1.33 factor instead of the 1.5 factor and I would buy it to shoot primarily BW so the IR-filter thing is not a show stopper.

Please do not start any flaming wars. We all know that the Epson/Voigtländer digital RF was first, and that Leica is a mere upstart 😉

[…since Voigtländer optics can trace its name back to good ol’ Johann Christoph in 1756]

All input much appreciated
Xpanded
 
I use both the M8 (with the M8.2 shutter upgrade) and R-D1. They work very well together, although the files have a different look. The viewfinder magnification is no problem, they are both nice. But I do have a 1.25x magnifier for the Leica for times when I only want to use longer lenses. One reason for getting the magnifier was that I did not own anything in the 24-28 range for a long time. You pretty much lose those lines with the magnifier. So it's not really an essential accessory in my opinion.
 
no matter the camera, i have always preferred a second same body as a back-up...so i use 2 rd1 bodies.
the m8 requires lens coding, which, for some reason bothers me more than the use of the uv/ir filters...in fact, i have uv/ir filters on all my lenses for the rd1.
 
I use both the M8 (with the M8.2 shutter upgrade) and R-D1. They work very well together, although the files have a different look. The viewfinder magnification is no problem, they are both nice. But I do have a 1.25x magnifier for the Leica for times when I only want to use longer lenses. One reason for getting the magnifier was that I did not own anything in the 24-28 range for a long time. You pretty much lose those lines with the magnifier. So it's not really an essential accessory in my opinion.

Yeah, I gave up using a 28mm on the R-D1s because I could not see the frame lines very well through my glasses. Does the upgrade of the M8 include all M8.2 goodies?
 
no matter the camera, i have always preferred a second same body as a back-up...so i use 2 rd1 bodies.
the m8 requires lens coding, which, for some reason bothers me more than the use of the uv/ir filters...in fact, i have uv/ir filters on all my lenses for the rd1.

It makes perfect sense to have two R-D1s [ although I would rather have one R-D2 ;-) ]. It would make batteries and such much easier. But I would not mind something with a more silent shutter. I love my Epson to bits but I absolutely hate the shutter sound :bang:
 
I might add one thing. Another reason for not getting the M9 is the fact, that I do not have the technique needed. My hands are very unsteady and I am not sure I would be able to focus it correctly. My R-D1s is much more forgiving. I wonder if the M8 is something half between these two?
 
i barely notice the sound of the shutter. interesting note, when i head out with the local flickr group (they all use dslrs and big zooms) there are a few who always comment that they love the sound of the rd1 shutter...
 
the m8 requires lens coding, which, for some reason bothers me more than the use of the uv/ir filters...in fact, i have uv/ir filters on all my lenses for the rd1.

Missed it first time. Is this absolutely necessary, or is it "only" to avoid vignetting?
 
Does the upgrade of the M8 include all M8.2 goodies?
I believe you can choose all the upgrades separately. I bought mine used and paid regular M8 money, which seems typical pricing for upgraded M8's.

The lens coding is not absolutely necessary, but you avoid a lot of hassle (Cornerfix) by doing the coding. For 35 or longer, I would not bother doing it unless you want the lens info in EXIF.
 
I believe you can choose all the upgrades separately. I bought mine used and paid regular M8 money, which seems typical pricing for upgraded M8's.

The lens coding is not absolutely necessary, but you avoid a lot of hassle (Cornerfix) by doing the coding. For 35 or longer, I would not bother doing it unless you want the lens info in EXIF.

I have not seen so many upgraded M8 for sale around here, so that is good to hear. And thanks for the explanation - I actually prefer darkened corners 😱
 
The RD-1 was my first digital camera. I did love the thing, but I do prefer the M8 (or the M8.2 that I'm now using). The crop factor is a big part of that.
I do think there is a lot to be said for having a two of the same camera - at least in terms of usage. Different controls can create some havoc in some settings when you go back and forth.

Obviously, I don't listen to my advice on that - since I use a Nikon D700 alongside my M8.2

In the end, though, you'll get used to whatever you shoot with - as long as you shoot with it enough.
 
I bought a m8.2 and used it for a while. I never got hooked by it. Image quality is better than R-D1 but ergonomics sucks. In the end I recently sold it and back to the R-D1. Bottom line for me, better ergonomics=more keepers.
 
I bought a m8.2 and used it for a while. I never got hooked by it. Image quality is better than R-D1 but ergonomics sucks. In the end I recently sold it and back to the R-D1. Bottom line for me, better ergonomics=more keepers.

went back to the rd1...i think this is the first time i have heard of this happening...what didn't you like about the ergonomics of the m8?
 
I bought a m8.2 and used it for a while. I never got hooked by it. Image quality is better than R-D1 but ergonomics sucks. In the end I recently sold it and back to the R-D1. Bottom line for me, better ergonomics=more keepers.

Thanks Yoni - food for thoughts. And unlike ʎǝllɐ ʞɔɐq it is not the first time I hear it hence my enquiry.

...Xpanded
 
There are a few issues in my mind with the Leica. First the lack of indication of shutter speed in the viewfinder. I know, I know classic Leica. I don't like it. Secondly, when in aperture priority, changing compensation sometime worked with the buttons sometime not. Third, I used a thumb up and grip and still I found that I was uncomfortable with a single hand grip on my side-the way I like to carry a camera (not to mention the ridiculousness of paying this kind of money for a camera that for me was essentially unusable without the extra grip and thumbup). Fourth, removing the bottom plate to change battery and card is a pain. All-in-all I was disappointed. I tried to love it, but it wouldn't get out of the way and let me shoot.

I shoot with two setups depending on circumstances: R-D1 and 1dsIII. I have some issues with the R-D1 but all-in-all very much enjoy using it and get the level of keepers I expect. I have no issues with my 1dsIII but it simply not suitable in many settings where the R-D1 steps in nicely.

To me cameras are about getting the images I previsualize. That means they have to move with me not against me.
 
I primarily use the CV 35 1.4 on my M8 and CV15 on the RD1. I'm not a long lens guy. The 35 feels tight but I'm getting used to it. That said:

I feel like the RD1 with the built in frame lines is a two lens camera at most. The difference between the 28 and 35 frame lines is too slight for me to feel like it's worth using both. The 50mm lines feel like they could be useful as a second lens choice on the RD1. The long focusing distance on the 50 1.1 keeps it from being the telephoto I was after 🙁

I hate that the M8 pairs the 35mm and 24mm lines together. It's hard enough to see the 24mm lines for me (I don't even wear glasses and my eyesight is fine afaik) and having the 35mm lines blocking the view makes me unlikely to use a 24 even though I'd really like to. The 28mm frame lines, however, are relatively uncluttered. The low crop factor actually puts that close to a focal length that I'm actually comfortable using too which seems nice.

Using the RD1 with the CV 35 1.4 and the M8 with the CV 28 f/2 seems like an ideal setup to me if I needed a two camera setup with fast lenses that were small enough to still enjoy rangefinder shooting. I would not switch that pairing around though. Both of those lenses use what I find to be ideal frame line setups on the M8 and for the RD1.

If I had to drop to a one lens setup on either camera it'd be the 35 1.4 since it's small and in a no man's land FOV that I find pretty annoying. It makes me feel like I'm learning something 😉 Also, on both bodies there's some breathing room to see outside the frame (though it is inhibited on the M8) which I really dig. Two lens setup would be the 35 and the 15.

All that said: I never carry two cameras. The M8 is with me almost all the time, including my daily walking around sessions. If I'm doing a concentrated street session I take the RD1 and 15mm. The 15mm and it's viewfinder just fit with the RD1 better and I like that it can have grit rather than noise. I like being able to use a strobe with the 15mm where the RD1 also wins because of the sync port.

I guess I could always tape off the frame line illuminator and use that 24...actually that doesn't seem like a bad idea at all 🙂
 
Last edited:
After I used the then newly added M8.2 a few days after using the R-D1 for a while (loved it and strangely still keep it), I have written a quick brain storming list on my immediate thoughts on the M8.2, which is still partly valid as of Today.

You can find the list here: http://www.teknopunk.com/articles/about_the_Leica_M8.2.html

I struggled a few weeks (!), to get happy with a new workflow and processing with the Leica files and almost gave up on this during the process, so different are the files (especially for exposing in low light and potential push processing).

Seeing it from Today's perspective, I say, once, you learned the M8, you will leave the R-D1 alone at some point.

The M8 has better sensor output - sharper, more detail (not just a higher resolution).

The M8 feels entirely different in handling at first going in the way, when being used to the R-D1 (no shutter cocking lever, no direct controls for ISO, different AE Lock, no shutter speeds in viewfinder in manual exposure, etc…)

The M8.2 is faster than the R-D1 (if you must dive into the menus, the M8 feels responsive, while the R-D1 can be sluggish).

Battery life is a lot better with the M8 (I usually shoot 300 - 400 shots with the M8, which is about 100 - 150 more than the R-D1).

The files are actually smaller, which is very nice (a bit over 10MB each raw file).

The viewfinder and especially the rangefinder is a lot better, although unfortunately no 1:1 finder (much better contrast, nice, that the focus patch stays centered, not to speak about the most important fact: better precision, allowing long and very fast lenses, to be spot on reliable, once set properly).

The M8 is actually less bulky (lower top) and a lot cleaner in design (less hanging, while stuffing or pulling into/ from bags/ pockets).

The lens mount is more precise, heavily damped lenses like Noctilux, 90 Cron, Nikkor 105/2.5 LTM fit without play and do not wobble around in the lens mount, when adjusting focus precisely.

If you ask me, the M8 is an adequately priced upgrade on a R-D1, judging from Today's prices.

The R-D1 is still a very nice camera, especially with it's still unmatched out of the box black and white high ISO look.

The M8.2 files need more and different post processing, which is no issue, once, you have your workflow and software down to scratch and fly through the files.

The M8.2 enabled one thing, I could not dream of with the R-D1 - shooting motor sports with a 135mm lens, which I didn't do with the R-D1 (RF precision + lower res for potential crops, as reach is not sufficient).

I would say, go for a M8, make sure, it is top (usual issues, than could be there and can be EXPENSIVE) and you might find yourself using the R-D1 less and less.

You could also just sell the house and go for a nice second hand ~4000 EUR ish one year old M9 with rest warranty from private, making sure with Leica Customer Service, that you can overtake the warranty and have any potential flaw fixed.

I can tell you, that the M9 is worth the money over the M8 - I just added a M9 and the files above ISO640 are crazy, compared to the M8.
The R-D1 has finally found it's master, when it comes to high ISO files.

Btw - the M8 does not need any lens coded. Extreme wide angle lens (with strange angling rear elements do vignette less wild than with the R-D1).
Any potential color issues can be fixed in post to a satisfying extend.

To my surprise, I found, that particular lenses, that performed poorly on the R-D1 were pure bliss on the M8 (less aberrations, less fall off, sharp from edge to edge, namely the Leica 35 Cron ASPH).
 
There are a few issues in my mind with the Leica. First the lack of indication of shutter speed in the viewfinder. I know, I know classic Leica. I don't like it.

To me cameras are about getting the images I previsualize. That means they have to move with me not against me.

Did not know that - thank you. And your last sentence is difficult to disagree with 🙂
 
Back
Top Bottom