M8 or RD1s?

[Olsen]

I am going to Singapore in late March. My original plan was to buy a M8 - so I can use all my nice M-glas. But now I am in doubt. Particularly I fear the freezing issue which will be unpractical to solve without cooperation from the norwegian importer. The dealer I usually buy from, Cathay Photo, sells RD1s too. So now I wonder which one to buy?

1)What do they cost (ex. sales taxes)? - And what's included..?

2)Which one is the most reliable?

3)Apart from crop and file size, which one produces the best files?

 

[sirvine]

1) No sure what they cost in Singapore or Norway. Here in the USA, the R-D1 costs about half of what the M8 costs. Refurbished R-D1s are about one-third the price of an M8.

2) My guess is that the Leica is more reliable in the long run. Others may disagree but I believe Leica is going to support the M8 for a lot longer and at a higher standard of care than Epson will do for the R-D1. As for build quality, my impression is that the M8 is a tougher, better built, better designed body. (Don't get me wrong--I love my R-D1 too)

3) M8 RAW files are sharper, more detailed, allow deeper cropping and more tolerance for post-production tweaking. M8 files also seem to be less appropriately
adjusted in-camera, so I spend more time getting white balance and color settings right. R-D1 images are very sharp, very usable, very printable and have a more "painterly" quality (if you will excuse the conceit) which is very nice.

 

[RF-Addict]

I think there is no doubt that the M8 is the better camera of the two, but it has so many significant issues to iron out, that I am holding off buying one. I can't see myself spending 5K on a camera that doesn't work properly. I just bought a used RD-1 and will use it until the M8's problems are solved or a successor to the M8 is announced. I still have an issue with the Infrared filters - I think it is ridiculous and I don't know if I am willing to live with them.

 

[Iron Flatline]

There are a lot of people we hear from who are having a hard time with their M8. However, the majority of M8 owners are NOT having problems. Mine has been flawless so far. It's just important to keep that in mind. The things we hear on forums tend to be skewed in both extremes (love vs hate) whereas most people are actually in the middle.

 

[abumac]

Be carefull with the Epson-camera. Check the R-D1 very well when you buy it. Two month ago I have ordered one. It had the frontfocus issue. I send it back. The second one had a problem with infinity and rangefinder and a lot of dead pixels. It seem that the quality-check of the R-D1 is more than poor.

I canceled the R-D1, got my money back and now I'm saving for an M8. I think one month more and Leica will resolve all the problems. The IR-filter is now issue for me. I always have UV-Filters on my lenses to protect them.

 

[sirvine]

The most important thing is to buy from a great dealer who you can trust. I paid sales tax on my M8 because I knew my dealer would replace it if anything went wrong. When I ordered my R-D1, I went through Robert White because I knew they'd stand behind it (which they did when I had a problem with my first unit). The better the dealer, the better your experience with the camera.

 

[jaapv]

I am going to Singapore in late March. My original plan was to buy a M8 - so I can use all my nice M-glas. But now I am in doubt. Particularly I fear the freezing issue which will be unpractical to solve without cooperation from the norwegian importer.

Not knocking our local Dutch importer - they are doing fine- but I often dealt with Solms directly - no problem at all within Europe.

 

[Olsen]

You will have no warranty in Norway if you buy your Rd-1s in Singapore. They will not help you in any way. After I had been trough numbers of people in Epson Norway they gave me a telephone number to Epson Japan and told me to ask if somebody talked english. I had a productions error on my Rd-1s and the seller sent me a new one right away and I havent had any trouble since.

The Rd-1s is a rather cheap camera compared to the M8 and you will probably have no troubles selling it again for almost the same price. If Leica failes with the new firmware and the owners have to wait another 6months you could loose more money on that deal if you want to sell it again before they get it solved. I will not buy the camera before the problem is solved completely.

If you want to lend my camera for a couple of days, just let me now. Didnt you have a Leica M? Maybe we could swap for a couple of days since Im going to buy a M6 or M7 soon and it would be nice testing one before buying.

- I will have a warranty problem regardless of which camera I buy. To buy it in Norway with a sales tax of 20% is not in question. I buy most of my photo gear - mostly Canon, - in Singapore at Cathay Photo and have never been in need of any warranty service from the norwegian importer - except for that they cleaned my 1Ds II sensor for free once. That much for 'others have had problems with their digital cameras too'- talk.

It's no less than tragic that a streight forward and usuable digital camera without serious reliability hick-ups can be bought for the wast number of M-series glas out there. This seems to be the case when i read the thread.

But, like most of us here, I haven't given up.

Thanks for offering me to borrow your RD1s (is it?). That's very kind of you.

I have a MP which is a very elegant and loveble piece of an old fashioned camera. I even have a Zeiss Ikon,- somewhat more efficient, but without the aura of the Leica. I have a film in the MP right now, but just say when if you want to borrow any of them.

 

[jaapv]

- I will have a warranty problem regardless of which camera I buy. To buy it in Norway with a sales tax of 20% is not in question. I buy most of my photo gear - mostly Canon, - in Singapore at Cathay Photo and have never been in need of any warranty service from the norwegian importer - except for that they cleaned my 1Ds II sensor for free once. That much for 'others have had problems with their digital cameras too'- talk.

It's no less than tragic that a streight forward and usuable digital camera without serious reliability hick-ups can be bought for the wast number of M-series glas out there. This seems to be the case when i read the thread.

But, like most of us here, I haven't given up.

Thanks for offering me to borrow your RD1s (is it?). That's very kind of you.

I have a MP which is a very elegant and loveble piece of an old fashioned camera. I even have a Zeiss Ikon,- somewhat more efficient, but without the aura of the Leica. I have a film in the MP right now, but just say when if you want to borrow any of them.

You would have no watrrantee problem whatever if you bought your camera in an airport "taxfree"in Europe. I know it is not really taxfree but for instance at Schiphol one gets an comparable 20% rebate on the high street price. I am sure other airports offer similar rebates. As a Dutchman I bought for instance a Longines watch at taxfree price at Schiphol and had it repaired under warrantee in Holland

 

[Olsen]

You would have no watrrantee problem whatever if you bought your camera in an airport "taxfree"in Europe. I know it is not really taxfree but for instance at Schiphol one gets an comparable 20% rebate on the high street price. I am sure other airports offer similar rebates. As a Dutchman I bought for instance a Longines watch at taxfree price at Schiphol and had it repaired under warrantee in Holland

- I will check what I have to pay at Frankfurt Airport when going thru there. I bought a pair of Carl Zeiss binoculars there last year 'tax free' - since I was a norwegian - the shop attendant argued (Norway is not a member of EU), while I am indeed obliged to pay sales tax in EU countries due to the trade/tax agreement between Norway and EU. I pulled my credit card and got out of there, fast.

Regardless, I will have to rely on the international warranty service of either Leica and Epson - communicating directly with the factory, which will be easier with Leica. I think.

 

[Richard Marks]

Dear Olsen
Why not buy one of each in Singapore? Use them both and then sell on the one you rate least! Its going to be a dam site more reliable than internet opinion.
Have a good trip.

 

[Olsen]

Dear Olsen
Why not buy one of each in Singapore? Use them both and then sell on the one you rate least! Its going to be a dam site more reliable than internet opinion.
Have a good trip.

As it stands now I will not buy any of them. Nice avetar you have. Up the street from where I live you find this: http://www.morgan.no/

 

[Richard Marks]

Many thanks Olsen. Glad you like it.
Looks like a very nice morgan agent! I imagine a 'Moggy' could be a bit draughty where you live!
Incidentally I would certainly not buy a Morgan without a test drive. You really have to try an M8 for yourself. If its any help Id be delighted to send you some M8 files for your perusal.
Have a good trip to Singapore
Richard

 

[Olsen]

Many thanks Olsen. Glad you like it.
Looks like a very nice morgan agent! I imagine a 'Moggy' could be a bit draughty where you live!
Incidentally I would certainly not buy a Morgan without a test drive. You really have to try an M8 for yourself. If its any help Id be delighted to send you some M8 files for your perusal.
Have a good trip to Singapore
Richard

As you see from the link page of Roadster Square there is about 250 Morgans in Norway (population 4,7 million people) and a Morgan Club with about 225 members. They are very active. - During the summer, that is. But a Morgan costs twice as much in Norway as in UK (The cheapest is NOK 478.500 NOK). The difference is tax. So, it is regarded as a rather expensive hobby.

Have you had any freeze problems with your M8? What lenses do you use with it?

 

[Richard Marks]

As you see from the link page of Roadster Square there is about 250 Morgans in Norway (population 4,7 million people) and a Morgan Club with about 225 members. They are very active. - During the summer, that is. But a Morgan costs twice as much in Norway as in UK (The cheapest is NOK 478.500 NOK). The difference is tax. So, it is regarded as a rather expensive hobby.

Have you had any freeze problems with your M8? What lenses do you use with it?

Hi Olsen
Ive not had any probelms with my M8.
I have used it pretty hard for about 6 weeks now and it really does inspire confidence. I have a 50f2, 90 2.8 and have just purchased the new 28 2.8 and an SF24 flash gun
I have a feeling that a lot of the freeze probelms may be related to faulty batteries. It is actually difficult to test these out in advance.
I also trust Leica to stick by this product, and I suspect anyone buying one now will get a more relaible camera than the initial release batches.
I have 2 complaints onyl; No sign of my free filters yet (although I have not really had colour problems)
The image view screen initially shows a dark blurred picture which is fully processed in about 3-4 seconds. One gets used to this, but a quick glance may suggest under exopsure, the pic then suddenly clears!
The images from this camera speek for themselves. Try and you will see!
Thanks for your info on Morgans in Norway. Fascinating. They are not likely to go digital any time soon!
regards
Richard

 

[grduprey]

I have had my M8 for 3 weeks now and hav had zero problems. The AWB works every bit as good as my D200 AWB does, if not better. I have used PSE4 and C1LE and had no problems processing the images, and in fact had little post processing to do, as the color balance, sharpness, etc have been near perfect right out of the camera. I have used in temperatures down to 4 degrees F with no problems, even with 8 hour cold soak, and even in some rain. I have gotten some Heliopan IR filters for 2 of my lenses and have ordered the free ones from Leica for the other 2 lenses, and the MAgenta problem is totally fixed, I only had 4 shots which showed it in the firsst place. To beshort the camera has worked just as advertised in my book. Batteries seem to last as long as if not longer than the batteries for my D200, and seem to charge in 2 to 2.5 hours, a reasonable time, as the Nikon batteries take just as long. My recomendation is buy the M8 with an extra battery, which are readily available, and have a great time making photos, all the hoopla over problems, in my book is way over blown.