monochromeimages
Established
I’m a leica M shooter. For me an M, a roll of black and white film and a darkroom is photography. Having said that there are some occasions when colour is the better option and for those I use digital. I’ve been thinking about an M8 for a long time but I’ve been put off by horror stories of UV/IR filters, lens coding, criticism of the framelines, noisy shutter, crop factor and unreliability. Online forums such as this don’t always make the M8 sound like a good idea !
I recently had a long hard look at micro four thirds. Both the GF1 and the EP1 are quite nice cameras but the lack of a proper built in optical viewfinder finally proved to be a deal breaker for me. I know there’s EVFs and external OVFs but they just don’t seem to be the answer. In addition both cameras are just to ‘Japanese’ and ‘computerised’ for my liking.
In the end I concluded there was no real alternative and when the opportunity arose to buy a very near mint chrome M8 with just over 2000 actuations, a known history and 12 months warranty from a reputable dealer I went for it.
This is a truly superb camera. In use you soon forget that it is digital, it’s just an M. You shoot it like any other M and can forget all about LCDs and buttons. For me it really is pretty much the film M experience in a digital body. Exactly what I wanted. The image quality is, to my eyes, something special too. I can’t easily put it into words but the images from more or less all the digital cameras I have seen just look ‘digital’. The M8 images, especially if you shoot DNG really do have a more film like quality. Somehow more natural looking – even compared with some very up market DSLRs which I have used.
But what of all the problems the M8 has been so criticized for ? Well, for me at least, most of them don’t exist or are pretty much irrelevant. The shutter noise is just not a problem. It’s louder than a film M but not enough to be any worry unless you were shooting in a very noise sensitive location. The framelines ? They are fine. Really can’t see what all the fuss is about. Crop factor ? I shoot mostly with 35mm and 50mm, more 50mm. A 35 on the M8 seems just a bit wider than 50 on film. Suits me fine. I got three UV/IR filters with the camera to cover all my lenses so no problem there and in reality my 35 summilux with filter is going to end up permanently attached to the M8 anyway. Lens coding ? My 35 cron is coded. My 35 lux isn’t. I really can’t see any difference (and I did switch lens detection on).
That leaves reliability. The 12 month warranty gives me some confidence. I’ve checked the camera for known issues and it’s fine. Only time will tell.
So if you are sitting on the fence wondering whether to buy an M8 but are put off by all the negative comments you have read just go and do it. It really is a fantastic camera, far better than I believed it could be after all the doom and gloom I have read. It’s certainly not for everyone and if you are expecting or wanting it to shoot like a DSLR you need to buy a DSLR. This is something quite different and if your thing is a Leica M you will probably love the M8.
I recently had a long hard look at micro four thirds. Both the GF1 and the EP1 are quite nice cameras but the lack of a proper built in optical viewfinder finally proved to be a deal breaker for me. I know there’s EVFs and external OVFs but they just don’t seem to be the answer. In addition both cameras are just to ‘Japanese’ and ‘computerised’ for my liking.
In the end I concluded there was no real alternative and when the opportunity arose to buy a very near mint chrome M8 with just over 2000 actuations, a known history and 12 months warranty from a reputable dealer I went for it.
This is a truly superb camera. In use you soon forget that it is digital, it’s just an M. You shoot it like any other M and can forget all about LCDs and buttons. For me it really is pretty much the film M experience in a digital body. Exactly what I wanted. The image quality is, to my eyes, something special too. I can’t easily put it into words but the images from more or less all the digital cameras I have seen just look ‘digital’. The M8 images, especially if you shoot DNG really do have a more film like quality. Somehow more natural looking – even compared with some very up market DSLRs which I have used.
But what of all the problems the M8 has been so criticized for ? Well, for me at least, most of them don’t exist or are pretty much irrelevant. The shutter noise is just not a problem. It’s louder than a film M but not enough to be any worry unless you were shooting in a very noise sensitive location. The framelines ? They are fine. Really can’t see what all the fuss is about. Crop factor ? I shoot mostly with 35mm and 50mm, more 50mm. A 35 on the M8 seems just a bit wider than 50 on film. Suits me fine. I got three UV/IR filters with the camera to cover all my lenses so no problem there and in reality my 35 summilux with filter is going to end up permanently attached to the M8 anyway. Lens coding ? My 35 cron is coded. My 35 lux isn’t. I really can’t see any difference (and I did switch lens detection on).
That leaves reliability. The 12 month warranty gives me some confidence. I’ve checked the camera for known issues and it’s fine. Only time will tell.
So if you are sitting on the fence wondering whether to buy an M8 but are put off by all the negative comments you have read just go and do it. It really is a fantastic camera, far better than I believed it could be after all the doom and gloom I have read. It’s certainly not for everyone and if you are expecting or wanting it to shoot like a DSLR you need to buy a DSLR. This is something quite different and if your thing is a Leica M you will probably love the M8.
Bobfrance
Over Exposed
I totally agree. Enjoy your new M.
Cron
Well-known
oh yes, I also enjoy mine
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I've been saying that since 2006..
robklurfield
eclipse
I agree with everyone above. crop factor? who cares? not me. not only do I love my M8, but it helped to renew my love of photography.
back alley
IMAGES
too japanese, too computerised, too digital?
too funny for words...
too funny for words...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Me too: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/m8.htmlI've been saying that since 2006..
The only trouble is that the M9 is EVEN NICER.
Cheers,
R.
Efra1
Established
Complety agree...
aniMal
Well-known
Almost exactly what I wrote after getting one.
I expect to use mine for years, I got it from a reliable source, which is important not to end up with a faulty one.
Once tested like this, or checked and repaired by Leica, they should be as stable as anything. Initially I got an M7 for backup when travelling, but soon sold it as I never used it.
My favourite setup these days for travel, is a small and light 4x5 and the M8 - it all goes in a normal sized bag and is really light. The combination is perfect, all manual, and for practical purposes the files from the M8 actually stands up to 4x5. Normally I whip out the 4x5 after getting the framing and exposure right with the M8, and then I have a perfect dual capture.
What I believe will happen, is that the M8 will hit a level price somewhat lower than today when the M9 really gets into the market - and that lots of people will use it the way it is intended. They will be going for a long time, either by repairs from Leica, or others that will learn how to work with the modular setup.
I expect to use mine for years, I got it from a reliable source, which is important not to end up with a faulty one.
Once tested like this, or checked and repaired by Leica, they should be as stable as anything. Initially I got an M7 for backup when travelling, but soon sold it as I never used it.
My favourite setup these days for travel, is a small and light 4x5 and the M8 - it all goes in a normal sized bag and is really light. The combination is perfect, all manual, and for practical purposes the files from the M8 actually stands up to 4x5. Normally I whip out the 4x5 after getting the framing and exposure right with the M8, and then I have a perfect dual capture.
What I believe will happen, is that the M8 will hit a level price somewhat lower than today when the M9 really gets into the market - and that lots of people will use it the way it is intended. They will be going for a long time, either by repairs from Leica, or others that will learn how to work with the modular setup.
cidereye
Film Freak
It's a great camera!
And "personally", as much as I'd love one, I see no reason whatsoever to upgrade to an M9 as the M8 does everything I require. Remember, it's a 1.33 crop - Not a 1.5 or 1.6 like many Nikon/Canon DSLR's so it's a lot closer to full frame 35mm than such cameras.
It's not a perfect camera by any means - I find the sensor a total dust magnet myself, UV/IR filters are a pain at times especially if you want to use other filters on the lens at the same time, crop factor is not a problem I agree .... apart from the need to use even wider wide lenses and their obvious far more expensive prices. But that all said you simply adapt to such things and work around them where you can.
And "personally", as much as I'd love one, I see no reason whatsoever to upgrade to an M9 as the M8 does everything I require. Remember, it's a 1.33 crop - Not a 1.5 or 1.6 like many Nikon/Canon DSLR's so it's a lot closer to full frame 35mm than such cameras.
It's not a perfect camera by any means - I find the sensor a total dust magnet myself, UV/IR filters are a pain at times especially if you want to use other filters on the lens at the same time, crop factor is not a problem I agree .... apart from the need to use even wider wide lenses and their obvious far more expensive prices. But that all said you simply adapt to such things and work around them where you can.
MCTuomey
Veteran
as much as i like the film leicas, the M8 has really grown on me. took awhile to adjust my post-process flow to the DNG files, and now i'm happy as a clam. can't give up film though. it's a good thing for me, and i feel fortunate having both a film and digi M.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I'm wild about mine--certainly my favorite digicam ever. I had it overhauled under warranty by Leica NJ (red line problem) and it's working flawlessly...its limitations are actually rather charming.
I told my Godson that I was bringing a (Pinky to Lip) "DIGITAL CAMERA" to his wedding. He welcomed me to the 20th century.
I like mine as well. Used to to reassemble an LTM Rigid Summicron today. The person before me put THREE of the groups in BACKWARDS. That interferes with the focus. Took a while to figure out which three groups to flip around.
I can also confirm: later Rigid Summicrons are slightly tweeked from the oldest ones.
I like mine as well. Used to to reassemble an LTM Rigid Summicron today. The person before me put THREE of the groups in BACKWARDS. That interferes with the focus. Took a while to figure out which three groups to flip around.
I can also confirm: later Rigid Summicrons are slightly tweeked from the oldest ones.
Last edited:
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Speaking of Crons......I have a minty 1992 one that's from my M6, it's razor sharp on my M6 shooting film, but many many times now it has let me down, shooting as soft as a Summar on my M8.
Any suggestion as to what's wrong with this lens???? It's beautiful and like new, just does'nt focus razor sharp on my M8.
Tom
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Yes- it is calibrated from the factory for film. A sensor needs more narrow tolerances. Just have it finetuned and it will regain its character on digital.
I've adjusted a couple of lenses for the M8, including the 9cm F2 Summicron and 10.5cm F2.5 Nikkor. But, they were off to begin with. I've used at least ten Fast 50's on the M8, including some converted Sonnars, all were good with it. I've used Three Summicron 50's, Collapsible, Type 1 Rigid, and Type 2 Rigid on it, all were Spot-On.
I have on particularly good J-3 that needed to be fine-tuned for wide-open work. Scanned negatives were not sharp enough to show the difference, but "pixel peeping" did. It also allowed getting a balance for the focus shift: set F1.5 to slightly front-focus to minimize focus error at F4.
1953 J-3, Wide-Open on the M8:
After fine-tuning.
I have on particularly good J-3 that needed to be fine-tuned for wide-open work. Scanned negatives were not sharp enough to show the difference, but "pixel peeping" did. It also allowed getting a balance for the focus shift: set F1.5 to slightly front-focus to minimize focus error at F4.
1953 J-3, Wide-Open on the M8:
After fine-tuning.
alecgold
Established
I found my lux 35 is at close range a little off. Not much, just a little.
Now I know it, I can compensate for it, I focus just a little bit more distance than I need to. No big problem for me as I use the 35 for a lot of street shooting.
When it will be serviced I will ask to have it better calibrated.
Now I know it, I can compensate for it, I focus just a little bit more distance than I need to. No big problem for me as I use the 35 for a lot of street shooting.
When it will be serviced I will ask to have it better calibrated.
proenca
Proenca
I've been saying that since 2006..
I have to agree with Jaap here....
I bought mine few months after it was out and to be honest, I was terrified.
Actually was even worse : My wife bought it for me, in Singapore. So when I saw it I was thrilled but at the same time I was horrified, I had been reading all about the shutter noise, image noise, green lines ( oh yes, this one is for M8 old school people
) , banding, intermitent shutter failures and so on.And I was thinking "my God, she spent a fortune on this and I'm going to hate this to bits and shes going to feel hurt ".
No fear at all after a few months.
I sold it last week and to be honest, it was the first cameras I was sad to see going away : it worked flawlessly for 3 almost 4 years, put into lot of abuse, never failed me once, have priceless memories taken with it. Love the size, the weight, the style, the optics.
Yes the framelines arent perfect but which camera has a perfect viewfinder ? could always be a little bigger, sharper, clearer, etc...
Yes the shutter is a bit on the loud side but unless you are taking pictures of a priest praying in the vatican, shouldnt be a problem everywhere else
Image noise is a drag and there is no way around it : well actually there is, bump the ISO even more and convert the images to BW, most gorgeous things ever that came out a digital camera ( see picture in the end of the thread )
All the other problems ( green lines, banding, purpleness, etc etc ) Leica pretty much adress it via firmware and filters.
Its a quite stable and mature product.
If can live with the 10mp - its a wonderfull camera. Actually I pondered a LOT if I should go M9 or simply get a second M8.2. Its that good.
My main problem with the M9 is that I had to buy it and the wife didnt bought it for me
And the M9 cost a lot ehehhehe
Typical example of M8 black and white gorgeousness ( at least to me , sorry for the lack of photographic skills ! )
Last edited:
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I love mine!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I have to agree with Jaap here....
I bought mine few months after it was out and to be honest, I was terrified.
Actually was even worse : My wife bought it for me, in Singapore. So when I saw it I was thrilled but at the same time I was horrified, I had been reading all about the shutter noise, image noise, green lines ( oh yes, this one is for M8 old school people
And I was thinking "my God, she spent a fortune on this and I'm going to hate this to bits and shes going to feel hurt ".
No fear at all after a few months.
I sold it last week and to be honest, it was the first cameras I was sad to see going away : it worked flawlessly for 3 almost 4 years, put into lot of abuse, never failed me once, have priceless memories taken with it. Love the size, the weight, the style, the optics.
Yes the framelines arent perfect but which camera has a perfect viewfinder ? could always be a little bigger, sharper, clearer, etc...
Yes the shutter is a bit on the loud side but unless you are taking pictures of a priest praying in the vatican, shouldnt be a problem everywhere else
Image noise is a drag and there is no way around it : well actually there is, bump the ISO even more and convert the images to BW, most gorgeous things ever that came out a digital camera ( see picture in the end of the thread )
All the other problems ( green lines, banding, purpleness, etc etc ) Leica pretty much adress it via firmware and filters.
Its a quite stable and mature product.
If can live with the 10mp - its a wonderfull camera. Actually I pondered a LOT if I should go M9 or simply get a second M8.2. Its that good.
My main problem with the M9 is that I had to buy it and the wife didnt bought it for me
And the M9 cost a lot ehehhehe
Typical example of M8 black and white gorgeousness ( at least to me , sorry for the lack of photographic skills ! )
Well that's easy ... the OM-1 of course!
Shooting black and white with my M8 will be it's primary usage from now on and I'm curious about how others approach it. You obviously choose to shoot raw and convert the files but I've heard that the black and white jpeg setting produces very good results and after quickly checking I have to agree. At 2500 ISO the noise produced is not unlike grain with a little work in post processing after converting the file to a tif!