K3N
Member
What do you reckon? 
c.poulton
Well-known
With an interchangable lens (digital) camera, this does seem like a logical step to make.
Alpacaman
keen bean
If it doesn't interfere with other functions, and doesn't take up more space, and is reliable, why not? But how would it be best implemented?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Or shorten battery life...
How do people imgaine you can ALWAYS fit more into an M-body?
Cheers,
R.
Alpacaman
keen bean
Renzsu
Well-known
M9: Do you want cream with that and a cherry on top?
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
If it is possible to do in an M body given the restrictions imposed by the body itself and limited battery power, it would cut down on the number of times you had to clean the sensor. It would not eliminate the need to clean altogether. I have it on my D700 and have had to clean the sensor once in over 2 years of use. I think it has it's uses.
Bob
Bob
K3N
Member
It should be possible. The Olympus PEN is thin and has both IBIS and a dust reduction system. I really would like to see such a system in a future M.
tlitody
Well-known
Moores Law for digital cameras.
usayit
Well-known
I'm all for this as well.... I've done my share of cloning out dust in post.
Ben Z
Veteran
I love my M9, don't get me wrong, but if Leica couldn't manage to make sure my rangefinder was adjusted correctly before they shipped it out, I cringe when I think about all these added features like IS and dust reduction people want Leica to put in the next model.
j j
Well-known
What is it about a Leica that means it couldn't cope with IS and sensor cleaning? The concerns raised here (battery, internal dimensions, rangefinder too delicate) seem odd one when we are discussing a well-constructed camera that is made with minimal concern to cost. Simple technology such as IS/dust removal (the same mechanism does two jobs) is cheap, would fit in the M body, does not use a great deal of battery charge and is not connected to the rangefinder mechanism. Why is it controversial?
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Would be nice, but not absolutely vital--and a long as it did'nt cause them to have to change the camera's current configuration.
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Well, j_j, the problem is that it doesn't seem to stop there....
There are already people suggesting that the M9 be equipped with focus confirmation, which seems a little odd, as the rangefinder patch(two images merging into one) would seem to be its own focus confirmation. Then, it wouldn't surprise me if someone suggests an EVF--and why not a Program Mode? And before you know it, you have--an M9 DSLR....
There are already people suggesting that the M9 be equipped with focus confirmation, which seems a little odd, as the rangefinder patch(two images merging into one) would seem to be its own focus confirmation. Then, it wouldn't surprise me if someone suggests an EVF--and why not a Program Mode? And before you know it, you have--an M9 DSLR....
MarkoM8
Member
If you want all this junk, why not buy the SLR's?
For me, the Leica is a traditional and simple camera system without all unnecessary gadgets ..
Sensor Cleaning takes about 5 minutes. I use a Rocket Air Blower about four times a week, and that's it. I have had to do wet sensor cleaning only twice a year.
For me, the Leica is a traditional and simple camera system without all unnecessary gadgets ..
Sensor Cleaning takes about 5 minutes. I use a Rocket Air Blower about four times a week, and that's it. I have had to do wet sensor cleaning only twice a year.
ampguy
Veteran
IS and dust reduction would require the Leica engineers to design a unique 7-bit patterning scheme.
This is in the works, but is slated for 2090. Watch for early leaks in Wikileaks or at Photokina 2087.
This is in the works, but is slated for 2090. Watch for early leaks in Wikileaks or at Photokina 2087.
ZlatkoBatistich
Established
I don't agree with the arguments against it. Automatic sensor cleaning is extremely valuable, not a junk feature. Some cameras with dust reduction have phenomenal battery life, much better than the M9. Rather than argue against dust reduction because it uses a tiny bit of battery power, why not argue for dust reduction AND improved battery life?
Why do people imagine you can't fit anything into an M body? Wasn't that one argument against a digital M, that there's no way to fit all the digital stuff into an M body?
Also, there is nothing traditional or simple about dust on sensors or cleaning the dust. It's not a more traditional or simple camera if it has dust that I have to clean manually. If you want a traditional simple camera, without automatic sensor cleaning, why not buy a film camera? After all, traditional simple cameras use film and only film, not digital gadgetry.
Why do people imagine you can't fit anything into an M body? Wasn't that one argument against a digital M, that there's no way to fit all the digital stuff into an M body?
Also, there is nothing traditional or simple about dust on sensors or cleaning the dust. It's not a more traditional or simple camera if it has dust that I have to clean manually. If you want a traditional simple camera, without automatic sensor cleaning, why not buy a film camera? After all, traditional simple cameras use film and only film, not digital gadgetry.
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Ampguy: Wiseass.
Zlatko: that only problem I see is that if you keep adding this, that, and the other, the M loses what makes it great: its simplicity. The M really IS a DIY camera, for people who'd rather do their own thinkng and shooting, rather than have all the bells and whistles do the work for them.
While I love my DSLR, (yes, I have one) it is a RELIEF, after using it, to get back to my M. Nice to get back to a simple, elemental camera (even if it is horrible expensive, for all that simplicity) that makes me do the work and THINK about what I'm doing.
Besides, I haven't really had much of an issue with dust on the sensor--just careful about changing my lenses....
Zlatko: that only problem I see is that if you keep adding this, that, and the other, the M loses what makes it great: its simplicity. The M really IS a DIY camera, for people who'd rather do their own thinkng and shooting, rather than have all the bells and whistles do the work for them.
While I love my DSLR, (yes, I have one) it is a RELIEF, after using it, to get back to my M. Nice to get back to a simple, elemental camera (even if it is horrible expensive, for all that simplicity) that makes me do the work and THINK about what I'm doing.
Besides, I haven't really had much of an issue with dust on the sensor--just careful about changing my lenses....
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I don't agree with the arguments against it. Automatic sensor cleaning is extremely valuable, not a junk feature. Some cameras with dust reduction have phenomenal battery life, much better than the M9. Rather than argue against dust reduction because it uses a tiny bit of battery power, why not argue for dust reduction AND improved battery life?
Why do people imagine you can't fit anything into an M body? Wasn't that one argument against a digital M, that there's no way to fit all the digital stuff into an M body?
Also, there is nothing traditional or simple about dust on sensors or cleaning the dust. It's not a more traditional or simple camera if it has dust that I have to clean manually. If you want a traditional simple camera, without automatic sensor cleaning, why not buy a film camera? After all, traditional simple cameras use film and only film, not digital gadgetry.
And indeed it WAS impossible, hence the chubby M8/9.
You want an even chubbier camera?
Cheers,
R.
ZlatkoBatistich
Established
Paul, I don't follow your argument. Automatic dust cleaning works in the background. It doesn't get in the way of photography — ever. It works without you thinking about it. Photography with the camera doesn't become the slightest bit more complicated. You can think all you want about the pictures without having to worry about the dust. DIY sensor cleaning takes time and doesn't make for more thoughtful photography. Likewise, spotting out dust in Photoshop doesn't make for more thoughtful photography. Cleaning dust just a flat-out waste of time, not a beneficial photographic activity.
Think of it with a computer analogy. Would you rather have a computer system that makes automatic daily backups in the background without requiring any intervention, or would you rather have a computer that never makes a backup unless you direct it make a backup? Which system is more susceptible to human error and forgetfulness? Which system is more likely to lead to an easily avoidable waste of time?
Besides, the M is not a DIY camera. It has aperture priority mode, automatic ISO, automatic exposure bracketing, exposure compensation, a snapshot mode hidden in the menu, two jpeg modes. two dng compression settings, a black & white mode, an old timey sepia mode, a built-in light meter, continuous frame advance, automatic shutter cocking, four shutter release modes, five automatic power off settings, automatic lens detection, various settings for contrast, sharpening and contrast. Simple?? A DIY camera would not have all of those options and features. A Tichy camera is a DIY camera.
Think of it with a computer analogy. Would you rather have a computer system that makes automatic daily backups in the background without requiring any intervention, or would you rather have a computer that never makes a backup unless you direct it make a backup? Which system is more susceptible to human error and forgetfulness? Which system is more likely to lead to an easily avoidable waste of time?
Besides, the M is not a DIY camera. It has aperture priority mode, automatic ISO, automatic exposure bracketing, exposure compensation, a snapshot mode hidden in the menu, two jpeg modes. two dng compression settings, a black & white mode, an old timey sepia mode, a built-in light meter, continuous frame advance, automatic shutter cocking, four shutter release modes, five automatic power off settings, automatic lens detection, various settings for contrast, sharpening and contrast. Simple?? A DIY camera would not have all of those options and features. A Tichy camera is a DIY camera.
Last edited: