sleepyhead
Well-known
Hi
I'm concerned about not being able to find Agfa Rodinal in a couple of years. I've heard that the unopened (or maybe even opened) bottles have a long shelf life.
If so, does it make sense to start stockpiling Rodinal for the future?
Any comments are welcome.
Thanks!
I'm concerned about not being able to find Agfa Rodinal in a couple of years. I've heard that the unopened (or maybe even opened) bottles have a long shelf life.
If so, does it make sense to start stockpiling Rodinal for the future?
Any comments are welcome.
Thanks!
John Robertson
Well-known
No there are plenty of substitutes. Fomadon R09 and Calbe R09 for a start, they are both readily available from Retro Photographic in UK
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
If I could get Rodinal at its price one year ago, I would not hesitate
to buy a couple bottles, as it should keep several years.
Since it became clear that Agfa Photo would cease operations,
the price of Rodinal has skyrocketed here in USA.
So I didn't buy any. I will wait and choose among several Rodinal
"clones" I expect will be marketed in the near future...
Excelsior, you fathead!
-Chris-
to buy a couple bottles, as it should keep several years.
Since it became clear that Agfa Photo would cease operations,
the price of Rodinal has skyrocketed here in USA.
So I didn't buy any. I will wait and choose among several Rodinal
"clones" I expect will be marketed in the near future...
Excelsior, you fathead!
-Chris-
peterc
Heretic
I've noticed that Rodinal is back on the shelves here in Canada. Agfa was made up of a number of parts and it seems the chemical and film side is still going.
Peter
Peter
R
ray_g
Guest
If it is available to me at a reasonable price, then I would buy a few bottles, just to avoid any uncertainty or worry. As mentioned, it keeps well, and as such, there is not much to lose.
XAos
Well-known
Given the price it shot up to, perhaps it would be feasible for them to just jack the price up until it DOES become profitable.
Seriously though, the only reason for stockpiling Rodinal is speculation if you intend to resell it later. If you just want to develop film with it, there are alternatives, including making it.
Seriously though, the only reason for stockpiling Rodinal is speculation if you intend to resell it later. If you just want to develop film with it, there are alternatives, including making it.
doubs43
Well-known
IMO, stockpiling AGFA Rodinal isn't necessary unless the brand name is essential for some reason. As others have pointed out already, other brands are readily available so it's not going to disappear except perhaps as an AGFA product. OTOH, if only AGFA Rodinal will make you happy then by all means buy a supply and lay some back. It'll keep a very long time.
Walker
Walker
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
"Mix your own"? Not me!
"Mix your own"? Not me!
One big reason many like Rodinal is that it is a highly concentrated liquid.
The syrup is easy to use in various dilutions, with no mess or waste.
There are others, but they don't give you the same look as Rodinal.
My allergies and I have no desire to mix powdered chemicals anymore.
Been there; done that...
Excelsior, you fathead!
-Chris-
"Mix your own"? Not me!
One big reason many like Rodinal is that it is a highly concentrated liquid.
The syrup is easy to use in various dilutions, with no mess or waste.
There are others, but they don't give you the same look as Rodinal.
My allergies and I have no desire to mix powdered chemicals anymore.
Been there; done that...
Excelsior, you fathead!
-Chris-
SixtiesM2
Rio's pal
There was a report that Agfa Chemical had been sold, and continued production of Rodinal seemed assured.
For links, reference my post in this thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13873&page=3
- Mike
For links, reference my post in this thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13873&page=3
- Mike
bmattock
Veteran
Two questions:
1) Is there a case to be made for the continued production of Rodinal?
2) Does it make sense to 'stockpile' Rodinal?
In my opinion - NO and NO. Here's why:
The case being made for Rodinal's continued existence has to do with a single entry in a news story about Agfa Photo, dated November 2005. In it, the story author asserts that a&o, a German company, bought Agfa's chemical plant:
It is this statement that everyone has pinned their hopes upon. But that statement is probably not what people think it is. More information was given:
Again, it would appear that a&o is saying that they intend to continue producing chemicals to process film and paper.
But in my opinion, this is misleading. Why? Let me explain. If you look at Agfa Photo's website, it says this:
It says NOTHING about a chemical plant being taken over. NOTHING.
Furthermore, if you then click on the link that takes you to a&o's website, you can see what kind of company they are. A service company. A copy-machine fixer company:
If you examine a&o's own statements about what they intend to do with the parts of Agfa Photo that they purchased, it would appear very clear that they purchased ALL THE SPARE PARTS to the minilabs that Agfa has installed, and they have a committment to restart the Agfa production lines to finish approximately 316 minilabs that had been sold to customers, but not yet built.
If they are in the chemicals business at all (referring to the CEO's intriguing statement), it appears clear to me that they are planning to produce the chemicals they need to RUN THE MINILABS. That would be C41 chemistry, unless I am very much mistaken, and not Rodinal.
Everything that Agfa says about a&o and everything a&o says about themselves is consistant - they service machinery - that's what they do. They bought the spare parts and some unassembled machinery so that they could continue to service Agfa minilabs. THIS IS INTERNALLY CONSISTANT LOGIC. Why would it make ANY SENSE for them to go into the business of producing and selling Rodinal?
I am also one who follows the industry newsletters, and I see NOTHING in them to indicated a huge sigh of relief over the revival of Rodinal - in fact, just the opposite. Ilford is taking advantage of the shortages to raise their prices to distributers, which everyone is complaining about, but paying - and why? Because they are not getting anything from Agfa or a&o.
The easiest thing to do would be to ask one of our fine RFF readers in Germany to call a&o on the telephone and ask them if they are planning to continue to make Rodinal. So far, none of the threads of rumor and innuendo I have read on any other photo-related chat board has indicated that anyone has gotten off their half-moons to actually drop a dime and ask a&o directly.
So, to sum up - I think Rodinal is dead, dead, dead. I think a lot of people are repeating rumors and regurgitating a single link in a single news source over and over again, and reading into it exactly what they want to hear.
Which brings me to the second question - should one stockpile Rodinal?
Well, people can do what they want. Whatever floats their boat, I guess.
I would not do it, because there is no need to. As has been pointed out OVER AND OVER again, there are several developers made that are Rodinal clones, using the same formulae. Both in powder and liquid form. There is nothing that Rodinal offers except a familar bottle and label.
If you need that security blanket, then I guess you should stockpile the stuff. But why do you keep asking us? You're going to do it anyway, so do it already.
I read these frantic, idiotic, messages that scream, "OMIGOD, RODINAL IS GONE!" and "OMIGOD, RODINAL IS SAVED!" and even "OMIGOD, AGFA IS MAKING FILM AGAIN, MY DEALER SAID SO!" and I think to myself, "Go, Lemmings, Go."
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
PS - I will be more than happy to eat my words if someone calls up a&o and reports that the CEO told them personally that a&o is planning to continue the production and retail sales of Rodinal. Just make the call, folks, and I'll apologize. But the information that is available just doesn't support this wild rumor.
1) Is there a case to be made for the continued production of Rodinal?
2) Does it make sense to 'stockpile' Rodinal?
In my opinion - NO and NO. Here's why:
The case being made for Rodinal's continued existence has to do with a single entry in a news story about Agfa Photo, dated November 2005. In it, the story author asserts that a&o, a German company, bought Agfa's chemical plant:
It is this statement that everyone has pinned their hopes upon. But that statement is probably not what people think it is. More information was given:
Again, it would appear that a&o is saying that they intend to continue producing chemicals to process film and paper.
But in my opinion, this is misleading. Why? Let me explain. If you look at Agfa Photo's website, it says this:
It says NOTHING about a chemical plant being taken over. NOTHING.
Furthermore, if you then click on the link that takes you to a&o's website, you can see what kind of company they are. A service company. A copy-machine fixer company:
If you examine a&o's own statements about what they intend to do with the parts of Agfa Photo that they purchased, it would appear very clear that they purchased ALL THE SPARE PARTS to the minilabs that Agfa has installed, and they have a committment to restart the Agfa production lines to finish approximately 316 minilabs that had been sold to customers, but not yet built.
If they are in the chemicals business at all (referring to the CEO's intriguing statement), it appears clear to me that they are planning to produce the chemicals they need to RUN THE MINILABS. That would be C41 chemistry, unless I am very much mistaken, and not Rodinal.
Everything that Agfa says about a&o and everything a&o says about themselves is consistant - they service machinery - that's what they do. They bought the spare parts and some unassembled machinery so that they could continue to service Agfa minilabs. THIS IS INTERNALLY CONSISTANT LOGIC. Why would it make ANY SENSE for them to go into the business of producing and selling Rodinal?
I am also one who follows the industry newsletters, and I see NOTHING in them to indicated a huge sigh of relief over the revival of Rodinal - in fact, just the opposite. Ilford is taking advantage of the shortages to raise their prices to distributers, which everyone is complaining about, but paying - and why? Because they are not getting anything from Agfa or a&o.
The easiest thing to do would be to ask one of our fine RFF readers in Germany to call a&o on the telephone and ask them if they are planning to continue to make Rodinal. So far, none of the threads of rumor and innuendo I have read on any other photo-related chat board has indicated that anyone has gotten off their half-moons to actually drop a dime and ask a&o directly.
So, to sum up - I think Rodinal is dead, dead, dead. I think a lot of people are repeating rumors and regurgitating a single link in a single news source over and over again, and reading into it exactly what they want to hear.
Which brings me to the second question - should one stockpile Rodinal?
Well, people can do what they want. Whatever floats their boat, I guess.
I would not do it, because there is no need to. As has been pointed out OVER AND OVER again, there are several developers made that are Rodinal clones, using the same formulae. Both in powder and liquid form. There is nothing that Rodinal offers except a familar bottle and label.
If you need that security blanket, then I guess you should stockpile the stuff. But why do you keep asking us? You're going to do it anyway, so do it already.
I read these frantic, idiotic, messages that scream, "OMIGOD, RODINAL IS GONE!" and "OMIGOD, RODINAL IS SAVED!" and even "OMIGOD, AGFA IS MAKING FILM AGAIN, MY DEALER SAID SO!" and I think to myself, "Go, Lemmings, Go."
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
PS - I will be more than happy to eat my words if someone calls up a&o and reports that the CEO told them personally that a&o is planning to continue the production and retail sales of Rodinal. Just make the call, folks, and I'll apologize. But the information that is available just doesn't support this wild rumor.
Patman
Established
It's been a while since I've developed my own film but am getting ready to start over. For many years i standarized with PlusX & TriX and tried several different developers and times rating film at different ASA settings. PS lost my journal with all my calculations. But I do remember that after all my experimenting and processing 1000's of negs I settled on D76, controlling contrast through dilution and time, it turned out to be the best, bar none, comparing neg to neg. Rodinal made the cut early prefered Microdol better.
hence as long as D76 is available you have nothing to worry about!
hence as long as D76 is available you have nothing to worry about!
Bryan Lee
Expat Street Photographer
Personaly I hope they come up with some better developer and film too for black and white. I know its a small market but come on, We could use more friendly and better smelling stuff that makes great images. Whats the stuff they used in Spy Planes? With nano technology and the kinds of powerful microscopes we now have you would think there could of been a big jump in processing and sensitivity by now.
sleepyhead
Well-known
Well, THANKS to everyone for their input.
I was not aware of the availability of rodinal substitutes with the same formula - SO I WILL NOT BE STOCKPILING Rodinal.
Cheers,
---Yaron
I was not aware of the availability of rodinal substitutes with the same formula - SO I WILL NOT BE STOCKPILING Rodinal.
Cheers,
---Yaron
wilt
Well-known
No, the Calbe and Fomadon substitutes are not available where I buy my supplies here in Sweden, getting them would perhaps mean importing (imagine the postage on those bottles) from Germany or England. And mixing the thing oneself - where, to start with, does one get para-aminophenol and potassium bromide ? - is more of a hassle than just buying some extra bottles. So, yes, I have been stockpiling Rodinal.
bmattock
Veteran
wilt said:
When your only reasonable alternative is to stockpile what is available, I can certainly understand that. My amazement has been directed at those who have been told over and over again that there are alternatives, the formula is known, etc, and they just don't listen and continue to run around freaking out. I guess if it has to come in a certain color bottle, nothing else will do. Your case appears to be different.
You might - in addition to stockpiling - want to start looking into getting your photo dealer to import a Rodinal-formula substitute.
I don't know what it is like obtaining raw chemicals in Sweden, but I'm already examining the possibilities here in the USA. For small batches, all that is needed is a decent set of scales and some containers of various sorts, plus the chemicals, of course. You might ask around and see what's available.
I've been buying books from roughly 1920 to 1970 on eBoy that published developer formulae, and I'm in the process of compiling those now.
Worst case - one can ALWAYS process B&W with caffeine and salt water - seriously - although there are a lot of better / faster / easier ways to do it.
This sounds horrible, but really, folks, making your own developer and fixer is not rocket science - it's pretty easy - like making a cake from a recipe, you can do it in your kitchen.
In the years to come, FILM is going to be hard to find - not developer chemistry.
Let's not get freaked out over the loss of Rodinal - it really is not that big of a deal. Losing Agfa B&W films - now that sucks.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
wilt
Well-known
Yes, time to start asking for the Rodinal clones at the suppliers. Or mix oneself.
B&W photography is perhaps developing (sorry!) in the direction of it being more of an artists' material kind of thing, rather than off the shelf stuff. I am not so sure that will only be a bad thing. One will learn a bit more about the process this way, and I am not negative to mixing chemicals oneself. As you say, it's not that hard and might even be a bit fun.
What will this process, if real, of classic b&w materials being harder to come by, make of the social status of the classic photographer? If it will further enhance the distinction of the analog photographer and in some cases lead to the accumulation of cultural capital compared to more plebeian forms of (digital) photography, one can only speculate ...
Agree that film is the big loss, not developers. Tech Pan went without me ever trying it out. But perhaps we will be making our own film in the future
The daguerreotypist enthusiasts have been doing it for ages.
Now, tell me more about that coffeine and saltwater developer! One would like to try it out on a Camera and coffee entry.
B&W photography is perhaps developing (sorry!) in the direction of it being more of an artists' material kind of thing, rather than off the shelf stuff. I am not so sure that will only be a bad thing. One will learn a bit more about the process this way, and I am not negative to mixing chemicals oneself. As you say, it's not that hard and might even be a bit fun.
What will this process, if real, of classic b&w materials being harder to come by, make of the social status of the classic photographer? If it will further enhance the distinction of the analog photographer and in some cases lead to the accumulation of cultural capital compared to more plebeian forms of (digital) photography, one can only speculate ...
Agree that film is the big loss, not developers. Tech Pan went without me ever trying it out. But perhaps we will be making our own film in the future
The daguerreotypist enthusiasts have been doing it for ages.Now, tell me more about that coffeine and saltwater developer! One would like to try it out on a Camera and coffee entry.
Buttons
Member
There might be substitutes which are marketed as such.... if you are a dedicated Rodinal developer try them .... you will find that the don't look anything like rodinal, or work in a similar manner.
Stockpile rodinal.... I have bought 12 0.5ltr bottles which I bought for € 7.95. I try other developers because it's also fun to do, but have not come up with anything more satidfying than Rodinal.
For Tri-x I might use HC-110 depending on the sort of shot, but even a 1600 push tri-x I develop in rodinal most of the time, grain ? yes... grain is beautiful if processed right.
Stockpile rodinal.... I have bought 12 0.5ltr bottles which I bought for € 7.95. I try other developers because it's also fun to do, but have not come up with anything more satidfying than Rodinal.
For Tri-x I might use HC-110 depending on the sort of shot, but even a 1600 push tri-x I develop in rodinal most of the time, grain ? yes... grain is beautiful if processed right.
bmattock
Veteran
wilt said:
I believe it could have the positive aspect of putting more of the 'craft' back into photography. No value judgments here - just that making one's own developer / fixer reminds one of making one's one paint, stretching canvases, etc.
Agree that film is the big loss, not developers. Tech Pan went without me ever trying it out. But perhaps we will be making our own film in the future
It should not be that hard to get back into coating glass plates. Film might be a tad harder...
With that said, I do recall reading something about a gent over on PN who was in the process of obtaining 'blades' I believe he called them, to try to make his own B&W film. I wish him luck, I suspect it will be difficult!
There are a lot of recipes for it - but I forgot to mention that there is at least one for a Rodinal substitute that uses acetiminophen (sp?). Check out Donald Qualls over at www.apug.org. He's 'da man' when it comes to that. I've met Donald, he's a good guy and is actually doing it, not just talking about it.
http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/text-coffee.html
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
bmattock
Veteran
Buttons said:
Now, see, that's just not true - and it is a scare tactic that I find quite annoying.
Rodinal is a 100+ year old chemical formula. It has been published repeatedly over the years, and any patents expired a long time ago on it. Anyone with the recipe can make it and sell it. They just can't call it "Rodinal" because that is a trademarked name and that does belong to Agfa Photo or their heirs and assigns, whomever they may or may not be.
I keep reading claims that Rodinal was 'changed' over the years - and that the 'new formula' is secret and patented. Not true - many have done searches for such patents in the USA and Germany - there are no such applications. There are no secret patents - if Rodinal had been changed and patented again, it would be listed. It is not, so that is (ahem) patently not true.
In addition, Agfa published a MSDS which has to list the chemical elements present in the mixture - nothing new there, either.
Unless you are suggesting that Agfa changed the formula for Rodinal and failed to patent it, and also failed to obey US law in importing it to the USA, then there is absolutely no evidence that Rodinal today is anything different than it ever was in terms of chemical components.
What could have changed? Proportions of the same chemicals, basically. Could that have an effect on development? Yes, but not one that would not be adjustable by varying development times.
Rodinal is not magic elixir, unless you choose to believe that, I suppose. And if you do, then fine, fine.
But I wish you'd not state that Rodinal developers are not the same as Rodinal - you have not one single shred of evidence that this is so, and quite a few companies and users of their chemistry who disagree with you.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Buttons
Member
"But I wish you'd not state that Rodinal developers are not the same as Rodinal - you have not one single shred of evidence that this is so, and quite a few companies and users of their chemistry who disagree with you."
without going into a probably useless argument I reverse the question .... show us your evidence that there are 1:1 rodinal clones ....
without going into a probably useless argument I reverse the question .... show us your evidence that there are 1:1 rodinal clones ....