mfogiel
Veteran
I've been analyzing some photos done with 6x7 cameras and lenses around a 55mm equivalent in 135. In particular, two rigs stand out: Pentax 67 with the 105/2.4 and Mamiya RZ with the 110/2.8. I have found on flickr a photographer who shoots them side by side:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thepaulreid/14767771171/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thepaulreid/14768179862/
The rendering is great in both cases, but they are difficult to compare due to different distance and film stock.
Has anybody used both of these rigs and has some useful comments on the relative merits to make?
I was even thinking to adapt the Sekor 110 to Pentax, but given that it does not have a helicoid, and I'm not sure you can stop it down mechanically, It would mean I'd have to buy another camera system, which I would prefer to avoid.
Thanks.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thepaulreid/14767771171/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thepaulreid/14768179862/
The rendering is great in both cases, but they are difficult to compare due to different distance and film stock.
Has anybody used both of these rigs and has some useful comments on the relative merits to make?
I was even thinking to adapt the Sekor 110 to Pentax, but given that it does not have a helicoid, and I'm not sure you can stop it down mechanically, It would mean I'd have to buy another camera system, which I would prefer to avoid.
Thanks.
Jerry Thirsty
Member
I can't tell you much about them, but presumably the decision comes down to whether you want a leaf shutter for flash sync or not, yes?
littleearth
Well-known
If you shoot available light go for the Pentax. The 105mm is a legend and it has a very unique character.
djcphoto
An Englishman Abroad
Like aperture64, I too tried both, but kept the Pentax system. It just works better for the way I shoot. That Mamiya 110mm lens is incredible though!
aizan
Veteran
if your studio is fairly dim, you can get away with the pentax's slow flash sync speed since it won't pick up much ambient light.
stick with the mamiya if you need to shoot with flash outdoors or in a brightly lit indoor setting.
ergonomics are totally different, and it all depends on how you use it and what you can put up with.
stick with the mamiya if you need to shoot with flash outdoors or in a brightly lit indoor setting.
ergonomics are totally different, and it all depends on how you use it and what you can put up with.
hamradio
Well-known
Interesting thread; I always wondered how the 110/2.8 was. I've contemplated buying one for my RZ...I have a 90/3.5, and it's kind of a heavy beast of a lens. The 110/2.8 is pretty damned cheap.
The Pentax 105/2.4 really lives up to its reputation, and the camera handles really nicely with it and a grip. I've never owned a P67, but used one now and then. As others have said, the RZ is not the most friendly camera to carry around, especially with the waist level finder. They did make an L grip for the RZ, though. I've thought about ditching my RZ for a P67 a few times, but think I'd still use my Super 23 more than either.
Four nice things about the Pentax 67:
-105/2.4. Available really cheap if you find a yellowed copy and leave it in a source of UV light for a week to clear. Excellent lens.
-handles very well for such a large camera
-1/1000 max shutter speed
-ability to shoot panoramas with a $60 kit from fotodiox that works surprisingly well
Four nice things about the Mamiya RZ67:
-revolving back can be super handy
-leaf shutter (though max is 1/400)
-extremely close focusing
-Polaroid backs are easy to find and use
The Pentax 105/2.4 really lives up to its reputation, and the camera handles really nicely with it and a grip. I've never owned a P67, but used one now and then. As others have said, the RZ is not the most friendly camera to carry around, especially with the waist level finder. They did make an L grip for the RZ, though. I've thought about ditching my RZ for a P67 a few times, but think I'd still use my Super 23 more than either.
Four nice things about the Pentax 67:
-105/2.4. Available really cheap if you find a yellowed copy and leave it in a source of UV light for a week to clear. Excellent lens.
-handles very well for such a large camera
-1/1000 max shutter speed
-ability to shoot panoramas with a $60 kit from fotodiox that works surprisingly well
Four nice things about the Mamiya RZ67:
-revolving back can be super handy
-leaf shutter (though max is 1/400)
-extremely close focusing
-Polaroid backs are easy to find and use
mfogiel
Veteran
Just to clarify - I already have a P67 - actually two: the old 6x7 and 67II. I really enjoy the VF and the lenses. I was more specifically interested in the quality of that 110/2.8 Sekor lens on a comparative basis.
I've recently ordered a conversion of a Biometar MC 120/2.8 to P67, in order to see if it can complement the 105/2.4. From what I have seen though, the Sekor bokeh is much smoother. This is a pic I took with a Biometar 120 about 40 years ago - I still like it:
B.B. by mfogiel, on Flickr
I've recently ordered a conversion of a Biometar MC 120/2.8 to P67, in order to see if it can complement the 105/2.4. From what I have seen though, the Sekor bokeh is much smoother. This is a pic I took with a Biometar 120 about 40 years ago - I still like it:
B.B. by mfogiel, on Flickr
littleearth
Well-known
Biometars have harsher bokeh, both the 120mm and 80mm. The Sonnar 180 I would pay to adapt.
I don't own the Sekor, but I think the results would look too similar to the 105. I'd rather adapt a Petzval or projector lens and get a completely different look.
I don't own the Sekor, but I think the results would look too similar to the 105. I'd rather adapt a Petzval or projector lens and get a completely different look.
mfogiel
Veteran
Haha, I'm still waiting for my Petzvar 120mm...
keithp
Established
Like others have said, it really comes down to how you work. I used to be a commercial assistant and the majority of shooters I worked for either used the RZ or a Hassy. Annie Leibowitz, Mark Selliger (and nearly every successful former 1st assistants to Annie) used the RZ due to the flash sync and focusing. The only guy I personally ever saw use the Pentax extensively was Bruce Weber (and he has had a stellar career). If you like handling of the Pentax and the images you are getting are what you want then changing is just for the sake of it. If you want to shoot more flash outdoors then the RZ is great (super easy focusing btw and it focuses closer due to the bellows).
mfogiel
Veteran
Thanks guys. I dislike using flash, so it looks like it's better to stick to Pentax. I have seen a guy on flickr, who had a P67 modified to take Hasselblad lenses, and shot all kinds of exotic stuff, including the old Hassy 1000 135/3.5 Sonnar converted to V bayonet, and god knows what else. Here I found him:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/issa918/sets/
Now, THIS is a lens fanatic...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/issa918/sets/
Now, THIS is a lens fanatic...
littleearth
Well-known
So many fashion photographers I admire used the Pentax 6x7, Mario Testino, Bruce Weber, Peter Lindbergh, Patrick Demarchelier, Terence Donovan, Michael Thompson, Steven Meisel, Kurt Markus, Sam Haskins and so many more...
It's one hell of a camera !
It's one hell of a camera !
Pioneer
Veteran
I do have the 180 Sonnar adapted to the 645. It is a Pentacon 6 mount and an adapter. Nice lens, but big, even on the 645.
charjohncarter
Veteran
I agree, but the Pentax 6x7 does have one leaf shutter lens. I've never seen one but it was a great idea.
j.scooter
Veteran
There are actually two leaf shutter lenses for the Pentax 90 f2.8LS and 165 f4LS.
I had both cameras and preferred the Mamiya because it was easier to focus and the bellows system.
The Pentax 67 viewfinder is bright, but I had difficulty determining focus, it didn't "snap" into focus like the Mamiya. I understand the Pentax 67II is better in that regard although I've never tried it.
I had both cameras and preferred the Mamiya because it was easier to focus and the bellows system.
The Pentax 67 viewfinder is bright, but I had difficulty determining focus, it didn't "snap" into focus like the Mamiya. I understand the Pentax 67II is better in that regard although I've never tried it.