Medium Format Development/Processing

[streetshoot]

You may have seen my recent post in this forum about my search for a MF system and I considered putting this in a more specific forum but I know you guys have the best experience in this category! I have some questions and would love your guys advice.

Sold all my digital gear and I ended up deciding on on the Mamiya 6 for my first MF system. I've been developing my own 35mm film in my basement and scanning the negatives with an Epson 4180 Scanner. I'm still in college and try to be as frugal as I can be when it comes to my passion. Being that I searched for an affordable scanner to begin with but I'm curious if i should upgrade now that I'm handling larger negatives? Is it essential? recommended? I only own the 35mm holder, and Im unsure where to even find the 120 holder for a reasonable price.

My second question, I own a Kindermann tank with only 35mm reels and often use the loading accessory but can load the film without it if I had too. I understand that 120 film is thinner and a lot more delicate that that of 35mm so I'm curious if I should invest in a patterson tank with an easier to load reel since its more fragile, or if I would be able to just use a patterson reel in my Kindermann tank? (wasn't able to find the dimensions on the patterson reels). I live on the tip of Long island and I'm hours away from any photo lab so development is pretty important to me and I cannot afford to send my rolls anywhere to be developed for $11 unfortunately.

I'm really looking forward to get out there and shoot and learn about this camera, after seeing results from other owners of this camera I hope to learn and master the techniques of shooting with it. I'm hoping to eliminate all this side gear stress in the most frugal way and would appreciate any feedback or recommendations that you guys would have.

Best Regards, Jack

 

[oftheherd]

I prefer steel tanks and reels. I have used Patterson and didn't care for them much. I would say get a 120 reel and go for it. If you tank is a two reel (35mm) the it should hold one 120mm reel. I would think most brands would be interchangeable as it has more to do with the length of the film than anything else afik.

Don't worry about any fragility of 120 mm film. If you have learned to do 35mm, you shouldn't have any problem with 120mm, even though it is thinner.

 

[BLKRCAT]

Having owned/own a Mamiya6, Mamiya7, Broncia SQ-A, Rolleicord, Pentax 67, and Fuji 690BL I would put the Mamiya 6 at the bottom of the list. Or second bottom to the rolleicord. Lenses are good, the body is compact, it has heft. But square format in RF was hard to get used to. Plus one of the big issues I found with any MF RF is the lenses are slow, it's hard to get that "MF" look, especially with the Mamiya. But good luck with it. The cheapness and plasticky feel is normal with this camera. Also don't expect to use the built in meter on this camera ever. It was extremely frustrating to see it constantly giving me thrown readings especially since I know what the exposure actually is supposed to be.

Going top to bottom I would put it M7, P67/Fuji (still waiting on results for the fuji), Bronica, M6, Rolleicord.

120 and 35mm films are both the same thickness and fragility. They are exactly the same films.

Scanning, you'll find that you wont need a better scanner. I found scans from MF to be much better for viewing than 35 scans with a V700. I see good results from V500s as well.

I have a patterson tank so I cant help you with dev questions.

 

[mfogiel]

If your Kindermann tank is the metal one, then just get metal 120 reels for it, if not, consider getting a metal tank for 4 35mm or 2 MF reels with the rod. You can find this at Adorama, B&H or Freestyle, and if you are patient, perhaps buy the tanks on the cheap second hand. Do NOT buy second hand reels, unless there is a return policy, because they could be bent, which would make them useless. One advantage of steel tanks is, that they only require about 450cc of liquid per 120 film, and this should make you save some money on chemicals over time, plus they are virtually indestructible, easier to wash and less prone to generate streaking. Last thing - if you also want to develop 35mm, I would only buy Hewes reels, as loading any other metal reel is a pure PITA, so here it is not advisable to save. As far as the scanner is concerned, everything is a matter of enlargement factor. Epson flatbeds like V700 are OK for up to 8x (if you can keep the film flat and focus the holder ), beyond that you need a dedicated scanner. With 6x6 it means you could enlarge to 16x16 inches easily.

 

[kuzano]

Everything you could possibly want (provided you know what you need) is on EBAY!!!

Used, often in like new condition, for used prices. Just watch the feedback... my minimum to buy from anyone on eBay is:

100 or more positive feedbacks

Spread evenly over a period of time

My rule... I don't buy from anyone with less than a 99.5% positive feedback on those 100 or more feedbacks.

I just purchased a Paterson 4 tank with two reals, complete for $15. I buy and sell on eBay for over 20 years now. No problems of any significant nature.

 

[Spanik]

I learned to develop 120 film in a simple cheap ebay tank, there is not much to it. I do have a patterson super 4 (or something) and that is going. Those lids are a pita and I have no confidence at all in them. Take a long time to put on as well. The jobo 25xx series on the other hand are a snap tu use. Could be just me otoh.

For the prices these things are going (certainly if you can afford a M6) it is easier to get one of them and try them out and make your own opinion than to think everybody is the same.

OTOH if you find it too expensive to get a couple of tanks at the prices (certainly US side) they go and a couple of films to exercise then I question the sense of getting a M6.

 

[streetshoot]

I learned to develop 120 film in a simple cheap ebay tank, there is not much to it. I do have a patterson super 4 (or something) and that is going. Those lids are a pita and I have no confidence at all in them. Take a long time to put on as well. The jobo 25xx series on the other hand are a snap tu use. Could be just me otoh.

For the prices these things are going (certainly if you can afford a M6) it is easier to get one of them and try them out and make your own opinion than to think everybody is the same.

OTOH if you find it too expensive to get a couple of tanks at the prices (certainly US side) they go and a couple of films to exercise then I question the sense of getting a M6.

It's not that they are expensive at all, I sold my entire digital setup for this M6 and its put me back, so I am trying to be frugal as can be.

 

[ChrisN]

I don't know why people pan the Paterson tanks. I've processed several hundred rolls of film in both 35mm and 120 formats and I don't have any problems. Keep the reels scrupulously clean and you' should not have any issues. For scanning MF I use an old Epson 4490, with Betterscanning film holder and ANR glass.

 

[tunalegs]

I prefer the stainless reels just because they're faster to load once you've got the hang of it. It will take some practice to learn how to do it at first - probably a good idea to practice with a sacrificial roll before trying to load your exposed films. 120 film isn't thinner than 35mm, but because it is wider it is easier to kink when loading, so it does require a bit more care.

 

[lynnb]

For medium format your flatbed should be OK. If you wanted to upgrade to a V550 it's on sale until 04 June (today) for USD$160 at the usual retailers (BH etc). The V600 is also on sale for USD$199. These are very cheap prices for medium format scanners, and if you can't get a 120 neg carrier for your 4180 I'd get one, if I was in your shoes. I use a V700 and the scan quality is very good if your negs are flattened (I put mine in acetate sleeves under a pile of heavy books for at least 24 hours) and the neg holder is adjusted to the best height using the included spacers. ANR glass is even better as Chris mentioned but you're on a budget so that can wait.

Marek's point about stainless tanks requiring less developer is a good consideration to help reduce ongoing cost. I use Paterson (I've had no problems loading the reels so long as they're kept clean and are scrupulously dry), as I found my Paterson for $2 in a charity store. If I was buying another I'd give stainless steel a go.

 

[KenR]

Paterson

Paterson

Another vote for the Paterson system - I have 3 different sized tanks that can do 1, 2 or 3 rolls of 120 (or 2, 3 or 5 rolls of 35mm). As long as the reels are dry they are easy to load. That said, on a humid day in the summer they can be a challenge to load. In a changing bag in the summer - forget about it (as we say it NY).

 

[_lou_]

Pattersons are cheap but only work if absolutely dry. A 35mm reel can be converted to 120 usually by rotation of top and bottom ends in opposite directions, then pulling the appart. Good luck. Mamiya 6 might not be the perfect camera, but I'm sure you will enjoy it very much.

 

[Steve M.]

A Paterson tank is basically your standard developing tank. Get a new System 4 for small money from Freestyle Photo when you buy your film and be done w/ it. Once you get the hang of it you'll probably prefer loading 120 film to 35mm. Plenty of good youtube videos showing how to do this. It's actually a lot more sturdy than 35mm film as there's more of it to grasp. Just practice w/ a sacrificial roll to get the hang of it.

Don't understand the comment about the Mamiya 6 w/ square format. It's no harder or no easier to compose with than any other type of camera. A rangefinder has less focusing accuracy in the viewfinder than a SLR or TLR at close distances in any format, but most people won't be using either one for that. 6x6 gives you tons of negative to crop things anyway. Some people get on w/ 6x6 and some don't. Square is actually my favorite format now that I've shot it for years and years. Back before I started wet printing I used a $40 Epson 2450 flatbed for 120 negs and the results were great (see shot below).