brians
Film Enthusiast
Hello, I put this suggestion in the FSU RF gear section because I was thinking that some of ya'll would be familiar with a lot of the vintage Soviet stuff.
I am shooting without a meter. I have never taken a photography course, and everything I read about manual exposure confuses me a bit, and I am a bit hazy on how to get "started" with completely manual cameras. I used to use an automatic with manual override Nikon SLR for a community service project back in high school.
After developing my love of RF's starting with the Soviet Leica copies, I am starting to see my prints from my first rolls of film a bit more critically in terms of composition, metering and exposure. Some pictures are horribly overexposed or underexposed.
Fortunately, the majority of the prints seem "not bad."
I know that getting a meter isn't the answer (but rather, tons and tons of practice and rolls of film), but I am wondering which one would be right for me.
I am leaning towards Soviet-made Sverdlovsk--primarily 4 or 6. And also, I know this is a bit OT, but do you have any helpful suggestions going out meterless with a Zorki-6 or a FED 5B and a roll of color film (I have a 4 pack of unused Fujifilm Superia X-tra 400ASA from a year ago)? Also, are there any good books to read about to get a good sense of any techniques or things I should definitely know before I go out and start shooting?
I know this was a tad bit too long, but first and foremost, I would like to thank those who read this and is willing to take the time to help a newbie out
I am shooting without a meter. I have never taken a photography course, and everything I read about manual exposure confuses me a bit, and I am a bit hazy on how to get "started" with completely manual cameras. I used to use an automatic with manual override Nikon SLR for a community service project back in high school.
After developing my love of RF's starting with the Soviet Leica copies, I am starting to see my prints from my first rolls of film a bit more critically in terms of composition, metering and exposure. Some pictures are horribly overexposed or underexposed.
Fortunately, the majority of the prints seem "not bad."
I know that getting a meter isn't the answer (but rather, tons and tons of practice and rolls of film), but I am wondering which one would be right for me.
I am leaning towards Soviet-made Sverdlovsk--primarily 4 or 6. And also, I know this is a bit OT, but do you have any helpful suggestions going out meterless with a Zorki-6 or a FED 5B and a roll of color film (I have a 4 pack of unused Fujifilm Superia X-tra 400ASA from a year ago)? Also, are there any good books to read about to get a good sense of any techniques or things I should definitely know before I go out and start shooting?
I know this was a tad bit too long, but first and foremost, I would like to thank those who read this and is willing to take the time to help a newbie out
johne
Well-known
Set shutter speed to that of film rating and start with f16 for sunny scene. As scene darkens, open up lens a notch. Can get good guesstiments. Johne
jan normandale
Film is the other way
Here are some links to photo sites discussing the use of cameras without a meter by using the 'sunny 16' concept. Key is to use it in conjunction with the film info on the box!
http://herron.50megs.com/sunny16.htm
http://www.apogeephoto.com/jan2001/sunny16.shtml
http://www.nyip.com/tips/topic_black_white_03.html
http://www.camerareview.com/templates/sunny16.cfm
http://www.photomigrations.com/articles/0403200.htm
Jan
http://herron.50megs.com/sunny16.htm
http://www.apogeephoto.com/jan2001/sunny16.shtml
http://www.nyip.com/tips/topic_black_white_03.html
http://www.camerareview.com/templates/sunny16.cfm
http://www.photomigrations.com/articles/0403200.htm
Jan
back alley
IMAGES
brian,
i don't know the fsu meters at all but i do think it's a good idea to have a good hand held meter.
i also use the sunny 16 rule quite often for daytime outside shooting but i like to double check it against a meter and there is a need to meter in darker territory and inside.
joe
i don't know the fsu meters at all but i do think it's a good idea to have a good hand held meter.
i also use the sunny 16 rule quite often for daytime outside shooting but i like to double check it against a meter and there is a need to meter in darker territory and inside.
joe
breakaway
Established
Brian,
I was in a similar situation as you when i first owned my FSU Zorki 4k. I would suggest you get a reliable light meter instead of one from the FSU (which probably uses selenium cells). This would prove to be a good investment if you're into FSU cameras or vintage cameras. A reliable light meter allows you to determine if the camera is giving you problems rather tha having to guess whether it's the user error or camera fault when trying out "new" cameras.
I was in a similar situation as you when i first owned my FSU Zorki 4k. I would suggest you get a reliable light meter instead of one from the FSU (which probably uses selenium cells). This would prove to be a good investment if you're into FSU cameras or vintage cameras. A reliable light meter allows you to determine if the camera is giving you problems rather tha having to guess whether it's the user error or camera fault when trying out "new" cameras.
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Toby
On the alert
A good modern incident lightmeter is the way to go. Look for sekonic, minolta or gossen buy new if you can you need 100% accuracy and consistancy. Guessing exposure can work but it only comes with a lot of experience. Make a good handheld meter the bedrock of your photography and you'll never regret it
W
wlewisiii
Guest
First, by far the best explaination of Sunny16 on the web is here: http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm
But beyond that, a meter is a good tool to add to your kit. For cheap, there is always the GE PR-1 a mid 40's Selenium meter that can be found cheap and is still very good. For modern, there are the ones mentioned above, but I also have a VC Meter II that I have been very happy with. I simply pop it into the shoe of the classic camera and go to it.
William
But beyond that, a meter is a good tool to add to your kit. For cheap, there is always the GE PR-1 a mid 40's Selenium meter that can be found cheap and is still very good. For modern, there are the ones mentioned above, but I also have a VC Meter II that I have been very happy with. I simply pop it into the shoe of the classic camera and go to it.
William
breakaway
Established
I second the VC Meter II as a handy light meter though a tad expensive. A Gossen DigiSix would go for less and is as good though a little harder to use.
kmack
do your job, then let go
The Digisix is a good meter, small and sturdy, add the hot shoe attachment and keep it on your camera. I also have a Gossen Scout II that I was able to buy for $15 at a local flea market. It is a small light weight selenium meter with an incident "window". The Scout is very easy to use and is as accurate as the newer (more expensive) Digisix for other than low light applications. Generally the Digisix is a better gadget, more functions, able to handle lower light levels.
I agree with all of the other posts. Your eyes are a good judge of light. After a while, with a lot of practice, you will be able to determine the correct exposure most of the time without the meter. I still carry one of my meters as a sanity check.
I agree with all of the other posts. Your eyes are a good judge of light. After a while, with a lot of practice, you will be able to determine the correct exposure most of the time without the meter. I still carry one of my meters as a sanity check.
FrankS
Registered User
Here's my 1959 Kiev 4a with V/C Meter II.
Diomedes
Vjekoslav Bobić
Two years ago, I bought a Gossen Digisix and it last only one year unfortunatelly. After that I have bought a Sverdlovsk-4 for 20$ and I'm very pleased with it. It is very accurate, even for the slides.
P C Headland
Well-known
Hi
I have a couple of FSU light meters, a little Leningrad 4 selenium cell meter and a Sverdlovsk 4. Both are spot on.
I like the needle type read out of the Leningrad, but it does not work well in low light condtions (like many selenium light meters). It is for reflective readings only. Still, it is good enough to get good exposures with Velvia, and is small and light.
I got the Sverdlovsk not that long ago, since I wanted something that worked better in low light. It has a relatively narrow angle of view, so is a poor man's spot meter. It also has a "dome" so you can take incident readings as well. It will run on a variety of batteries and voltages (3.5-4.5v or thereabouts, as it has a calibration function).
If you want to get one pretty good meter, I can recommend the Sverdlovsk 4. A great meter for the price.
Paul
I have a couple of FSU light meters, a little Leningrad 4 selenium cell meter and a Sverdlovsk 4. Both are spot on.
I like the needle type read out of the Leningrad, but it does not work well in low light condtions (like many selenium light meters). It is for reflective readings only. Still, it is good enough to get good exposures with Velvia, and is small and light.
I got the Sverdlovsk not that long ago, since I wanted something that worked better in low light. It has a relatively narrow angle of view, so is a poor man's spot meter. It also has a "dome" so you can take incident readings as well. It will run on a variety of batteries and voltages (3.5-4.5v or thereabouts, as it has a calibration function).
If you want to get one pretty good meter, I can recommend the Sverdlovsk 4. A great meter for the price.
Paul
Nickfed
Well-known
OK I'm biased, but why do I hear a deafening silence at the only game in town?
I can't understand why anybody would think of a selenium meter without considering, and therefore getting, a Weston Master V. It's the standard by which all others are judged and was probably the meter of choice in the FSU just like it was anywhere else, the only problem being that it was either unavailable there, or unaffordable.
No surprise there is a raft of them going for peanuts on eBay as the market for handheld meters can't be huge, here in the 21st century - indeed probably limited to just a handful of FSU rangefinder nutters....
I have considered getting another myself. My case has worn out.
I can't understand why anybody would think of a selenium meter without considering, and therefore getting, a Weston Master V. It's the standard by which all others are judged and was probably the meter of choice in the FSU just like it was anywhere else, the only problem being that it was either unavailable there, or unaffordable.
No surprise there is a raft of them going for peanuts on eBay as the market for handheld meters can't be huge, here in the 21st century - indeed probably limited to just a handful of FSU rangefinder nutters....
I have considered getting another myself. My case has worn out.
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ChrisN
Striving
Nickfed said:
Good pick.. I got my Weston Master V from ebay, then had it rebuilt by George at Quality Light Metric (n the US). Not the cheapest route to take, but I now have an excellent meter I know is accurate. And - no batteries!
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
brians ~
my 2 cents of total inexperience ~ I too have committed myself to improving my “eye-meter” and am always practicing the sunny16. There‘s some great sites mentioned by these guys with a lot of good info.
A couple of months ago I happened onto an old, but fairly clean Weston Model 853 + case at a Goodwill type store for 2 bucks, so I “rescued” it and brought it home. I roughly checked it later comparing it to my AE-1 and decided it was at least close to working, so I threw it in my bag and took the grandmonsters to the park. I metered and took this shot with my Zorki 1/Jupiter 12 that I later rather enjoyed.
It was the only shot I metered all day and it’s not a great shot, but it was enough to make me realize there are situations when sunny16 just isn’t going to get me the results I want. (I never can guesstimate the shadows, etc.) Having some type of working meter, even an old one, to give me a second opinion is a good idea and I've since practiced with the meter a little more.
So I too am watching for a better meter, maybe one mentioned here. (The old Model 853 is great as long as I don’t want to shoot anything faster than ASA100! Ha! ) Good luck and let me/us know the results of your search.
my 2 cents of total inexperience ~ I too have committed myself to improving my “eye-meter” and am always practicing the sunny16. There‘s some great sites mentioned by these guys with a lot of good info.
A couple of months ago I happened onto an old, but fairly clean Weston Model 853 + case at a Goodwill type store for 2 bucks, so I “rescued” it and brought it home. I roughly checked it later comparing it to my AE-1 and decided it was at least close to working, so I threw it in my bag and took the grandmonsters to the park. I metered and took this shot with my Zorki 1/Jupiter 12 that I later rather enjoyed.
It was the only shot I metered all day and it’s not a great shot, but it was enough to make me realize there are situations when sunny16 just isn’t going to get me the results I want. (I never can guesstimate the shadows, etc.) Having some type of working meter, even an old one, to give me a second opinion is a good idea and I've since practiced with the meter a little more.
So I too am watching for a better meter, maybe one mentioned here. (The old Model 853 is great as long as I don’t want to shoot anything faster than ASA100!
Ha! ) Good luck and let me/us know the results of your search.johne
Well-known
Good use of the meter! My compliments. Johne
richard_l
Well-known
I'm a little confused.
You think that getting a meter isn't the answer, yet you want recommendations on which meter would be right for you. Then before getting any recommendations you say that you want a Soviet meter.
I'm going to have to ignore all that and just try to help as best I can.
1. If you want to learn how to shoot without a meter, read http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm
Read it slowly and patiently. It is easy, but it doesn't read like a newspaper or novel, and there is a lot of material there.
2. Shooting without a meter is based on Sunny 16, which is analogous to incident metering using exposure values. The meters which will reinforce your meterless ambitions will therefore be capable of incident metering and will give exposure value readouts. The one I am most familiar with is the Gossen Digisix. The Digiflash is similar. They are not Soviet, but they are accurate and if used for incident metering will help you develop the skill to estimate exposure without a meter.
Ignore the above if you wish. It's your photography and you obviously have the right to choose any sort of equipment you want.
Richard
You think that getting a meter isn't the answer, yet you want recommendations on which meter would be right for you. Then before getting any recommendations you say that you want a Soviet meter.
I'm going to have to ignore all that and just try to help as best I can.
1. If you want to learn how to shoot without a meter, read http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm
Read it slowly and patiently. It is easy, but it doesn't read like a newspaper or novel, and there is a lot of material there.
2. Shooting without a meter is based on Sunny 16, which is analogous to incident metering using exposure values. The meters which will reinforce your meterless ambitions will therefore be capable of incident metering and will give exposure value readouts. The one I am most familiar with is the Gossen Digisix. The Digiflash is similar. They are not Soviet, but they are accurate and if used for incident metering will help you develop the skill to estimate exposure without a meter.
Ignore the above if you wish. It's your photography and you obviously have the right to choose any sort of equipment you want.
Richard
brians
Film Enthusiast
Thank you all, as CVBLZ4 had mentioned (who shot a nice picture by the way), I didn't mean that I needed a meter for "the answer" but rather a mate to give me a second opinion when in doubt. FrankS, beautiful camera, and I love that VC meter. I'll have to look into getting one of those once I start saving up the camera fund once again.
I am familiar with the sunny 16 exposure method, but what I am totally unsure of is daylight indoor, low light, overcast, and night time situations. I will definitely check out those sites that ya'll recommended, and again, I really appreciate your help
By the way, I think I'm going to try out a Leningrad meter first, and see how that works! I was initially looking into getting a Gossen Digisix (I think that's what it was called), an older CdS meter. Hopefully I'll be able to step up on the skill ladder as time passes on and my gear starts accumulating.
Ahh and also, my friend who's really good at rigging up electrical things together said he'd take some time to help me make a very basic (but very ghetto) lightmeter for the time being! I don't know how it'll work out, but I think I'll have to juxtapose the readings with the digital camera's built in readouts.
I am familiar with the sunny 16 exposure method, but what I am totally unsure of is daylight indoor, low light, overcast, and night time situations. I will definitely check out those sites that ya'll recommended, and again, I really appreciate your help
By the way, I think I'm going to try out a Leningrad meter first, and see how that works! I was initially looking into getting a Gossen Digisix (I think that's what it was called), an older CdS meter. Hopefully I'll be able to step up on the skill ladder as time passes on and my gear starts accumulating.
Ahh and also, my friend who's really good at rigging up electrical things together said he'd take some time to help me make a very basic (but very ghetto) lightmeter for the time being! I don't know how it'll work out, but I think I'll have to juxtapose the readings with the digital camera's built in readouts.
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zuikologist
.........................
Post a photo of the "ghetto" meter if you can please - sounds intriguing!
Nickfed
Well-known
brians said:
That shouldn't be a problem. The only thing "non ghetto" about a commercial hand-held meter is the scale on the dial, the calculation wheels, and the packaging. Essentially they are just a CDs cell, a meter and a battery. At my previous employment they cobbled one up in the engineering workshop for use with an animation camera. It was the first meter with a battery I ever saw. It had the cell on a stick. It was meant to be temporary but it stayed in service for about twenty years.