Metering Question

R

Roman A Clef

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Hi. I would welcome some advice with regard to metering. I am fairly new to photography and am on a steep learning curve. One of the things I struggle with is metering.

I am using a 1951 Leica iiif and a Summitar f2 lens as well as a reconditioned (and so presumably, accurate) Weston v lightmeter.

I am taking black & white photographs and I use yellow and red filters for shots outside which are generally buildings and landscapes.

I find if a shot is evenly lit there is rarely a problem but where it isn't, ie very bright skies or bright buildings, with the rest of the shot in shade or much darker, the darker areas are very dark.

Should I take one reading on brightest part and one on the darkest and average the two or, should I just meter from the darkest part?

Should I stand nearer to the building etc to meter from as opposed to meter from where I am taking the shot. It would help to know what to aim the light meter at and from what distance for various scenarios including buildings and landscapes.

I have a fold out grey card and should I use that and if so do I go very near to it with the light meter but obviously avoiding shadow? How is this possible unless it is ok to meter the card at arms length. Meter in one hand, card in other.

Does the red filter which I allow 3 stops of light for with the light meter, as opposed to 1 with the yellow filter, accentuate this problem?

I suspect that on occasions, but certainly not always, the dynamic range of the photo I am seeking to take is very large and so a graduated nd filter may be the answer but, if that can be avoided, I would like to know how.

Any guidance would be most welcome. Thanks.
 
I normally try to use exposure reading from light shadow. Or I do what Joel Meyerowitz suggests and point the light meter at my hand. That way you get an even dispersal of light on an off white colour (not sure if this works if you have darker skin).

Are you using colour, slide or b&w?

Also you can always bracket your shots by taking three exposures of the same thing. One over exposed, one correctly exposed and one underexposed. But this probably won't work with street or candid work.
 
Roman A Clef said:
Does the red filter which I allow 3 stops of light for with the light meter, as opposed to 1 with the yellow filter, accentuate this problem?
Click to expand...

It might, depending on the color of what you are photographing. Red filters are commonly used to enhance the contrast of blue skies and white clouds, but any subject with blue in it will be darkened and green will be made lighter.

Also, a few questions:

-what kind of film are you using? Silver BW or chromogenic (eg. BW400 and XP2)?

- are you basing your comments on prints, direct neg viewing, or scans?


When I shoot XP2, I often find blown highlights in the scans from the lab, but the detail is on the negative...it's just to dense for the scanner to extract.
 
froyd said:
It might, depending on the color of what you are photographing. Red filters are commonly used to enhance the contrast of blue skies and white clouds, but any subject with blue in it will be darkened and green will be made lighter. . . . .
Click to expand...
Addendum: Shadows are more blue than the parts of the image illuminated by sun, because they're illuminated by (blue) sky light. Yellow/orange/red filters therefore have a disproportionate darkening effect on shadows.

Cheers,

R.
 
froyd said:
It might, depending on the color of what you are photographing. Red filters are commonly used to enhance the contrast of blue skies and white clouds, but any subject with blue in it will be darkened and green will be made lighter.
Click to expand...

Green - as in green cars and other objects painted green - does get darkened by red filters, just like blue. Foliage may be an exception, it will often be made lighter by red filters, as leaf green really has one green and one deep red/infrared component - but whether and to which extent that happens will depend on the plant (many have additional pigments and dyes besides chlorophyll, especially towards the end of their growth period), the light, and on the deep red sensitivity of the film.
 
To get a "quick and dirty" meter reading, I will take a reading off of one of these, if available:

Some green grass;

An asphalt road that is neither too fresh (too dark), nor too old (too light).

Blue sky, in the darkest part (usually 90 degrees away from the sun, and high up).

These will almost always give me an "average" or "midpoint" exposure. Getting an overall reading of the scene with the Master V--an integrated reading--will, as well. Then, to ensure shadow detail, you can open up from there.

The tried and true idea to "expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights" is still true for black & white. In reply to your question about distance: I walk up closer to the building to get that shadow or highlight reading. From a distance, it's hard to get a reliable reading of only the shadow, or only the highlight.

Don't use a yellow, orange, or red filter if the part of the building or scene in question is in shadow. That part may be lit by reflected skylight, which is blue. The filter will hold back blue, and cost you some shadow detail. Shoot without a filter, or use a light yellow one--A K2 cloud filter (Wratten #8) or even lighter. There is a Wratten #6 equivalent that only costs you 1/2 stop.

A graduated ND filter with a rangefinder camera? I use them with an SLR (I know I have one someplace), but I think it would be too hard with an RF.
 
Thanks to all. I have lots to read, questions to answer as well as to ask which I will do when sat down tonight. Until then thanks again

John
 
Reading from the shadows will not work if you, for example, want to have dramatic clouds in the sky shot with a red filter. So, unfortunately, there is no win-all recipe, it depends on what you shoot and how you develop.

I don't recommend in the long run to count on the film's exposure latitude. Consciously think about which area you want to be a certain tone (for example a lighter shadow), meter and tune your development recipe accordingly. How you meter facilitates how you print and/or scan, so I suggest to think about your whole work flow.

Roland.
 
If you just think it through, keeping in mind that the meter assumes that everything you point it at is middle gray, like your card. meter a black wall and the meter will advise camera settings that will make that wall look middle gray. Middle gray is zone 5, the palm of your hand is zone 6 (one stop brighter). Zones go from 0 to 10, each one stop from its neighbor. Have I made myself obscure? Read Fred Picker's Zone VI Workshop
 
taskoni said:
Forget the meter, Sunny 16 and have fun. . .
Click to expand...
Dear Boris,

With nearly 47 years' experience of exposing B+W, I can almost always guess very accurately indeed.

Unfortunately, "almost always" and "always" are not quite the same. No fun when I don't get the picture!

If there's time, or if I REALLY want/need the picture, I'll use a meter and/or bracket.

Cheers,

R.
 
Thanks to everyone who has replied. Very kind but there is a great deal of conflicting advice...

Meter from shadows/ don't meter from shadows
don't use meter/do
red filters will darken shot
grey card/ not grey card
incident/reflective/spot
grass/hand

As I have said, I am really grateful for the advice. It has helped but to firm it up could someone answer the following questions in a non theoretical and concise way.

1 If I take a black and white shot using hp5 with a red filter of a landscape scene where top third will be bright sky with the sun behind me on a bright day what would I meter and where would I meter from

2 as above but yellow filter

3 As 1 but a building

4 As 2 but a building

5 Would the answers to 1-4 change on an overcast day?

Many thanks

John
 
Roman, you have been given so much good advice so far.

KISS, keep it simple sir.
Stand in the same light as your subject and point an incident light meter towards your camera, adjust for your filter.
K2 yellow filter, add 1 stop; Dark Red filter, add 3 stops.

If you want to spend the time and adopt the zone system, fine tune film speed and development times etc, then you use a reflected light meter, take readings of different parts of the subject and place those subjects according to the zone they fit into:
Dark shadows = zone 3, middle grey = zone 5, skin = zone 6, bright highlights = zone 8. Your meter defaults to zone 5.
...Terry
ps. Zone VI Workshop by Fred Picker is an excellent book.
 
If you can't get the basics without filters, there isnt any point in trying to use them. I already know how to meter well and am getting better every day metering in my head with no lightmeter and I even have trouble with filters. Mostly because I have filters that don't divide in even stops like orange and green (but really when shooting BW or CN being off by half a stop isnt much of a problem)

Like overkill said K.I.S.S.
 
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