jshelly
Established
I see a sexy Military Fed2 for sale on flea bay.
I'm a leica guy (don't hit me) and have no clue about the fed's but I'm really interested in this one.
Is it worth the premium that I see over the standard Fed2's, and what do feel is good price?
Thanks
I'm a leica guy (don't hit me) and have no clue about the fed's but I'm really interested in this one.
Is it worth the premium that I see over the standard Fed2's, and what do feel is good price?
Thanks
Last edited:
lmd91343
There's my Proctor-Silex!
Jshelly,
I am not a FED expert, but I have done some reading and looking. I recently saw a green topplate FED2 on Ebay. Is that what you are refering to?
To my knowledge no FEDs had painted top or bottom plates. They are all satin, non-nickle chrome. Of course there is an exception. There appears to be a small handful of black painted FED5s.
There are FED2s with painted vulcanite in subdued colors. Later FED models have colored cloth coverings.
There are a handful of military engraved FEDs.
Hope that helps,
I am not a FED expert, but I have done some reading and looking. I recently saw a green topplate FED2 on Ebay. Is that what you are refering to?
To my knowledge no FEDs had painted top or bottom plates. They are all satin, non-nickle chrome. Of course there is an exception. There appears to be a small handful of black painted FED5s.
There are FED2s with painted vulcanite in subdued colors. Later FED models have colored cloth coverings.
There are a handful of military engraved FEDs.
Hope that helps,
jshelly
Established
There is a Fed 2 that specifically says "military" in the description and it does have army green top and bottom plates with black vulcanite although I don't see any military specific engraving.
If you search for FED 2 Russian Rangefinder 35mm Camera, MILITARY Model you will see it
If you search for FED 2 Russian Rangefinder 35mm Camera, MILITARY Model you will see it
lushd
Donald
Hi - I've had a squint and I would say it's 99% certain that this is an ordinary FED that has been painted pretty recently and not all that well either. Many FSU cameras are victims of this sort of thing in a misguided attempt to increase their value.
The FED 2 is a great camera and an ordinary one in good condition is a good buy - you should give it a go.
I have FEDs and also 2 Leicas - everyone here understands the appeal of both!
The FED 2 is a great camera and an ordinary one in good condition is a good buy - you should give it a go.
I have FEDs and also 2 Leicas - everyone here understands the appeal of both!
jshelly
Established
Thanks Don,
I had a feeling that was the case, but had no idea since I know nothing about FEDs
Much appreciated.
I had a feeling that was the case, but had no idea since I know nothing about FEDs
Much appreciated.
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
Jshelly,
Donald is - of course - absolutely right. This sort of thing is really irritating, not least because the cameras that are painted up are quite often in poor condition and otherwise unsalable. Unwary buyers might easily pay a premium price for trash.
To my knowledge (thanks largely to Princelle) The only olive green cameras produced for the soviet military were some Zorki 3s and - possibly - 4s. These may have been a viewfinderless variant, some of which were used by the navy as periscope cameras. Like most armies, the Soviets generally used ordinary civilian cameras, without red stars and some of the other painted stuff one sometimes sees.
A notable exception to much of the above are the zeiss-lens modified FED 1s produced for the air force topographical service in the late 40s - sometimes called "General's FEDs", which have a striking engraved star on the top-plate.
Cheers, Ian
Donald is - of course - absolutely right. This sort of thing is really irritating, not least because the cameras that are painted up are quite often in poor condition and otherwise unsalable. Unwary buyers might easily pay a premium price for trash.
To my knowledge (thanks largely to Princelle) The only olive green cameras produced for the soviet military were some Zorki 3s and - possibly - 4s. These may have been a viewfinderless variant, some of which were used by the navy as periscope cameras. Like most armies, the Soviets generally used ordinary civilian cameras, without red stars and some of the other painted stuff one sometimes sees.
A notable exception to much of the above are the zeiss-lens modified FED 1s produced for the air force topographical service in the late 40s - sometimes called "General's FEDs", which have a striking engraved star on the top-plate.
Cheers, Ian
w3rk5
Well-known
Personally I wouldn't buy it. I'd rater paint it myself. Unless it's painted by someone who had done it properly, I don't trust it. You don't know how it was prepped before painting nor the products used (could contain lead?jshelly said:
). That's important cause I'm sure you'd like the finish to be durable and safe to handle. I could be going a little overboard but that's just me. If you trust the seller and his craftsmanship, than I say it's worth the extra.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Hi -- It's perfectly ok here to be a Leica guy, many of us happily use our Leicas along with other gear. As mentioned, unfortunately there's a rash of fakery going on in an attempt to sell FSU cameras that might otherwise be hard to sell or go for a low price. I knowingly got a phony Contax (Kiev) but then I'm charmed by the phonyness!jshelly said:
bob cole
Well-known
Military Premium?
Leicas with military markings, as we all know, have a big premium because the markings are regarded as genuine but Soviet/Russian cameras use military markings so often and so fraudulently that it is almost impossible to tell when the military markings may be genuine...therefore, in my opinion, I would regard all military insignia on Soviet/Russian cameras as suspect...That might be different on say, binoculars, periscopes and other items that definitely might be used by the Army, Navy or other military organizations. Years ago I had a Fed copy of an early Leica with NKVD [KGB] markings that I thought was genuine; it might have been but a Russian camera dealer had no interest in it when I showed it to him. That cured me of Russian markings...regards, bob
Leicas with military markings, as we all know, have a big premium because the markings are regarded as genuine but Soviet/Russian cameras use military markings so often and so fraudulently that it is almost impossible to tell when the military markings may be genuine...therefore, in my opinion, I would regard all military insignia on Soviet/Russian cameras as suspect...That might be different on say, binoculars, periscopes and other items that definitely might be used by the Army, Navy or other military organizations. Years ago I had a Fed copy of an early Leica with NKVD [KGB] markings that I thought was genuine; it might have been but a Russian camera dealer had no interest in it when I showed it to him. That cured me of Russian markings...regards, bob
kmack
do your job, then let go
I took a look and there are two "military" Fed 2's. As far as painted Fed's go these look pretty cute.
I also noticed that one of the is being sold by "asterliks", I bought a Kiev from him about a year ago. Everything with that transaction was on the up and up.
If you want a green Fed get it. A working Fed 2 can be a good performer. Other wise there are cheaper 2's out there to be had. Heck--if you want a working Fed 2L I got one I will sell you cheap. (We never really bonded).
I also noticed that one of the is being sold by "asterliks", I bought a Kiev from him about a year ago. Everything with that transaction was on the up and up.
If you want a green Fed get it. A working Fed 2 can be a good performer. Other wise there are cheaper 2's out there to be had. Heck--if you want a working Fed 2L I got one I will sell you cheap. (We never really bonded).
bob cole
Well-known
Military Premium?
Many years ago, I worked in what turned out to be a less-than-reputable Manhattan jewelry store that sold diamonds on credit...I was told from day one never to write a receipt that said "perfect diamond" but, rather, to say, "genuine diamond..." because genuine diamonds could still have a million flaws while a perfect diamond typically did not...Your military Fed 2 might be a genuine Fed but I would be hard pressed to go beyond that just because it's painted green...Like the bootleggers said during Prohibition, when booze became hard to get: "I've got a bathtub, too." --regards, bob
Many years ago, I worked in what turned out to be a less-than-reputable Manhattan jewelry store that sold diamonds on credit...I was told from day one never to write a receipt that said "perfect diamond" but, rather, to say, "genuine diamond..." because genuine diamonds could still have a million flaws while a perfect diamond typically did not...Your military Fed 2 might be a genuine Fed but I would be hard pressed to go beyond that just because it's painted green...Like the bootleggers said during Prohibition, when booze became hard to get: "I've got a bathtub, too." --regards, bob
Nickfed
Well-known
bob cole said:
I guess some smart operator could be doing it, but I have never heard of a fake NKVD FED and you can be pretty sure that yours was 100% kosher.
So, either this was a time when such cameras enjoyed no premium, or your dealer was an ignoramus.
bob cole
Well-known
Nickfed said:
Nickfed...my old Fed had a four-digit serial number and in addition to the NKVD markings, it was also marked Combinat...I bought it used in New Jersey for $8usd, with a brown leather case, a 50/3.5 Fed lens and a genuine Leica cap...I had it restored by Essex Camera in New Jersey for $102usd and after five years of trying I finally sold it at the Second Sunday Camera Show in New Jersey for $175 but came away very disenchanted about Russian cameras...I have two fine Russian Elmar copies and may buy a Kiev copy of the Contax but I accept them as Russian but give no credence to special markings...they add nothing to their value...The only question is, are they any good...and the answer still is, if you're very lucky... regards, bob
Nickfed
Well-known
There is plenty of info at www.fedka.com etc. Assuming it was kosher, which is most likely, you got it for a ridiculous bargain price, people pay more than that for the Leica cap, and probably sold it for a lot more than it was worth.
No cause to feel disenchanted!
The markings add nothing to the performance but a 1930s FED is a collectors piece.
It is hardly surprising it was not a user.
No cause to feel disenchanted!
The markings add nothing to the performance but a 1930s FED is a collectors piece.
It is hardly surprising it was not a user.
nzeeman
Well-known
just buy normal camera and not painted one. ge to fedka or oleg site and choose some. everybody say they are great sellers.
wotalegend
Well-known
bob cole said:
If it had NKVD engraved on it, it is probably one of the 169,000 genuine FEDs made between 1935 and 1941. If it had Kombinat on it, it is probably one of the 80,000 genuine FEDs made between 1939 and 1941. But the four digit serial number doesn't match with the Kombinat period. Four digit serial numbered bodies should have Trudkommuna on them in place of Kombinat. NKVD on the camera doesn't mean that that camera was actually used by the NKVD. It means that the FED Trudkommuna / Kombinat was operated under the supervision and patronage of the NKVD during the period 1935 to 1941. I have a FED with both NKVD and Kombinat on it, serial number 153XXX, which I am reasonably satisfied is a genuine 1941 model. By the way, I'm no expert. You can read all this and much more in the writings of Oscar Fricke accessible via www.fedka.com.
outfitter
Well-known
bob cole said:
Getting $175 for a faked four digit Fed (worth about $25) is enchanting not disenchanting.
Michael
bob cole
Well-known
Military Premium?
The four-digit Fed worked very well after restoration...The only fault I found with it was the rewind knob...On older Leicas, you can lift up the knob and rewind the film very quickly...On this one, the rewind knob was fixed in place and to rewind you had to develop a kind of motion. running the pointer finger along the edge of the knob until you completely rewound the film; it was very slow... The reason I sold it was -- as I said before -- a Russian dealer with years of experience poo-pooed it, as if to say, they're a dime a dozen., like old Polaroids...[except a couple of models]. I, too, believe it was genuine but neither then nor now feel like collecting Russian collectibles...The fellow that bought it --while I can't be sure -- bought it to use because he probably couldn't buy a Leica, not because it said NKVD...
In my opinion, the only reason to go for Russian optics is because they can be terrific, and inexpensive, except for a few models, which are expensive because they are rare as well as great lenses...regards, bob
_____________________________________________________outfitter said:
The four-digit Fed worked very well after restoration...The only fault I found with it was the rewind knob...On older Leicas, you can lift up the knob and rewind the film very quickly...On this one, the rewind knob was fixed in place and to rewind you had to develop a kind of motion. running the pointer finger along the edge of the knob until you completely rewound the film; it was very slow... The reason I sold it was -- as I said before -- a Russian dealer with years of experience poo-pooed it, as if to say, they're a dime a dozen., like old Polaroids...[except a couple of models]. I, too, believe it was genuine but neither then nor now feel like collecting Russian collectibles...The fellow that bought it --while I can't be sure -- bought it to use because he probably couldn't buy a Leica, not because it said NKVD...
In my opinion, the only reason to go for Russian optics is because they can be terrific, and inexpensive, except for a few models, which are expensive because they are rare as well as great lenses...regards, bob
kiev4a
Well-known
The General's FED isn't a FED. It's a TSVVS, made only in 1949 and 50. It was a high class Leica II copy -- only about 1000 made. It had a Jupiter 8 lens in a proprietary mount. No Contax or LTM lens would fit it.
I have a 1937 NKVD FED 1B #39495 that was overhauled by Oleg. I consider it more of a collector than a shooter. The uncoated lens flares easily--a lens hood is a must.
I have a 1937 NKVD FED 1B #39495 that was overhauled by Oleg. I consider it more of a collector than a shooter. The uncoated lens flares easily--a lens hood is a must.
Jocko said:
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
kiev4a said:
With respect, I don't think that's entirely correct. TSVVS is not the name of a manufacturer but simply the initials of the "Topographical Service of the Airforce". the cameras were made by FED using high quality materials as a special batch. They were fitted with Contax bayonet mounts and f1.5 or 2 Carl Zeiss Sonnar lenses, taken as booty from occupied Germany. Princelle has the full story - but here's a picture of a lovely example recently sold on e-bay - the Zeiss lens is immediately apparent.
Regards, Ian
