Mir or Zorki 4 ?? Advise Please

[arbib]

I like the Zorki 4 as a RF, But does the slow speed drivetrain cause more problems....
(So a Mir is a Zorki 4 w/o the Slow speeds from what I can gather)

Any prederance for the more reliable camera...As FSU cams go...

I found a 1957 Z-4 with a 50/2 of similar year...Best bet ??

 

[fanshaw]

The Zorki-4 is vulnerable to failure of the slow speed mechanism, but many have been used for years without problems. The MIR is likely to be more reliable, but may be more expensive due to its comparative rarity. If you don't need slow speeds then the MIR will give you all the features of the best Zorki-4 variants, like the engraved shutter speed dial and strap lugs. If you might need slow speeds there is no good reason to avoid the Zorki-4.

 

[wolves3012]

A Mir ought to be more reliable but....what if you get a 4 and the slow-speeds fail? Well, effectively you have a Mir for less money!

I'd also say that the slow-speed mechanism on a 4 is pretty much identical to all the ones fitted to FEDs 3 to 5, and they don't have a particular reputation for failing. As with any mechanical camera, if it's serviced properly it shouldn't fail for a long time. Having worked on these cameras, I don't consider the mechanism to be badly made or designed, so I can't see any reason for it to break without severe abuse. Don't be put off a 4 because of the slow speeds.

 

[arbib]

A Mir ought to be more reliable but....what if you get a 4 and the slow-speeds fail? Well, effectively you have a Mir for less money!

I'd also say that the slow-speed mechanism on a 4 is pretty much identical to all the ones fitted to FEDs 3 to 5, and they don't have a particular reputation for failing. As with any mechanical camera, if it's serviced properly it shouldn't fail for a long time. Having worked on these cameras, I don't consider the mechanism to be badly made or designed, so I can't see any reason for it to break without severe abuse. Don't be put off a 4 because of the slow speeds.

Thanks for the info.
I have decided on a Mir (1960) with a J-8 (1959). Mainly because only 160,000 +/- were made. And the J-8 was not the common lens it was sold with. I think this was the "Up-Graded" Lens. And the Bigger and Brighter VF..I just found out it has a 1:1 VF...Nice. So when I get the J-9 I shouldn't worry about shooting at f/2....


Now the Wait....My Bday is the 9th of Jan. So this is a Self-Bday Gift to me at 54.
Hope the Discription is right.....It looks like it had a film transport spool replaced. So lets hope hope it a basic CLA too...

Sorry for the long wait to reply...I kept getting "DNS Error" while trying to load the site for 2 days....Same with DSLR Exchange too 😕 😕 😕


Link to Winning EBay Auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300186885157&ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/300186885157_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40QQfviZ1

 

[fanshaw]

A Mir ought to be more reliable but....what if you get a 4 and the slow-speeds fail? Well, effectively you have a Mir for less money!

I'd also say that the slow-speed mechanism on a 4 is pretty much identical to all the ones fitted to FEDs 3 to 5, and they don't have a particular reputation for failing. As with any mechanical camera, if it's serviced properly it shouldn't fail for a long time. Having worked on these cameras, I don't consider the mechanism to be badly made or designed, so I can't see any reason for it to break without severe abuse. Don't be put off a 4 because of the slow speeds.

I suppose there is no chance that failure of the slow speed mechanism might in some cases affect the higher speeds as well? Maizenberg says that the shutter on a Zorki-4 won't work at all without the slow speed mechanism.
Do you know think it would be possible to transplant the slow speed mechanism from a Zorki-4 to a Zorki-3M? I have a 3M in which the slow speeds don't work. The clockwork buzzes but it doesn't detain the second curtain. I have taken the top off but I am no wiser as to the cause of the problem. It's particularly annoying because I paid to have the curtains replaced in the 3M.

 

[wolves3012]

I suppose there is no chance that failure of the slow speed mechanism might in some cases affect the higher speeds as well? Maizenberg says that the shutter on a Zorki-4 won't work at all without the slow speed mechanism.
Do you know think it would be possible to transplant the slow speed mechanism from a Zorki-4 to a Zorki-3M? I have a 3M in which the slow speeds don't work. The clockwork buzzes but it doesn't detain the second curtain. I have taken the top off but I am no wiser as to the cause of the problem. It's particularly annoying because I paid to have the curtains replaced in the 3M.

If the slow speeds fail then I'd say it's likely that there would be no effect on the faster ones. It would depend on exactly what has failed though and in what way. If the mechanism were wound and then failed to unwind, that could detain the second curtain permanently.

I'll have to have a look at the 3M to see if the mechanism is identical to a 4, I can't remember. If it buzzes when you release the shutter then it's probably not the mechanism per se. Under the mechanism is a tiny lever that flicks out to detain the second curtain - that could be gummed up and failing to move. Is the speed always the same regardless of what slow speed you set? If so, any idea what speed it's actually on?

 

[fanshaw]

If the slow speeds fail then I'd say it's likely that there would be no effect on the faster ones. It would depend on exactly what has failed though and in what way. If the mechanism were wound and then failed to unwind, that could detain the second curtain permanently.

I'll have to have a look at the 3M to see if the mechanism is identical to a 4, I can't remember. If it buzzes when you release the shutter then it's probably not the mechanism per se. Under the mechanism is a tiny lever that flicks out to detain the second curtain - that could be gummed up and failing to move. Is the speed always the same regardless of what slow speed you set? If so, any idea what speed it's actually on?

I examined the mechanism working with the top off, I saw the clockwork run and looked for something to happen, like a lever operating, but I couldn't see anything. My guess is that the shutter operates at 1/25 on all slow speeds. The fast speeds and 'B' appear normal. I thought of removing the slow speed mechanism to clean it, but I was put off by a comment in the Maizenberg book that the mechanism 'can be correctly reinstalled in the camera only by a person who understands its operational principle'. I think I need to do some homework before I cam claim to reach that state!

 

[wolves3012]

Fanshaw,

The 3M mechanism isn't quite identical to that on a 4/4K, I checked. However, the ONLY difference is the triangular projection by the largest wheel. With a file or "Dremel" it would be easy to remove (you'd have to because it'll foul the top cover of a 3M). You'd also need to flush the filings very thoroughly and re-lube afterwards. The principle is identical on the 3M or 4/4K. Read my Zorki 4/4K "How to - CLA" thread for details how to remove & re-fit the mechanism, just ignore the bit about the flash-sync switch since there isn't one!

The lever that gets pushed out on slow speeds is very small. Here are 2 photos, showing it in the engaged and disengaged positions. Wind the camera very slowly with a slow-speed set and you ought to see it move.

 

[fanshaw]

Fanshaw,

The 3M mechanism isn't quite identical to that on a 4/4K, I checked. However, the ONLY difference is the triangular projection by the largest wheel. With a file or "Dremel" it would be easy to remove (you'd have to because it'll foul the top cover of a 3M). You'd also need to flush the filings very thoroughly and re-lube afterwards. The principle is identical on the 3M or 4/4K. Read my Zorki 4/4K "How to - CLA" thread for details how to remove & re-fit the mechanism, just ignore the bit about the flash-sync switch since there isn't one!

The lever that gets pushed out on slow speeds is very small. Here are 2 photos, showing it in the engaged and disengaged positions. Wind the camera very slowly with a slow-speed set and you ought to see it move.

Thanks, Wolves for providing this information. It is very kind of you to go to this trouble.I remember the part in question and I was expecting to see it move when the shutter was pressed. I don't remember if I looked when winding-on. I wll have another look. It is lucky that the top of the 3M is so easy to remove! I think that the first step, if I confirm that the lever doesn't move, should be to remove the mechanism and see if something is obstructing it, like dirt. The mechanism looked quite clean, however. I will study your fitting instructions as you suggest.
Thanks again!

 

[wolves3012]

Thanks, Wolves for providing this information. It is very kind of you to go to this trouble.I remember the part in question and I was expecting to see it move when the shutter was pressed. I don't remember if I looked when winding-on. I wll have another look. It is lucky that the top of the 3M is so easy to remove! I think that the first step, if I confirm that the lever doesn't move, should be to remove the mechanism and see if something is obstructing it, like dirt. The mechanism looked quite clean, however. I will study your fitting instructions as you suggest.
Thanks again!

Not a problem, as you say the top cover is easy to remove from a 3M. I already had a slow-speed mechanism from a parts 4K to compare.

One other thought when you have a look what's happening: Does the lever miss the curtain-release completely? It's a possibility to look out for...