mooge
Well-known
Mjautek Episode II: Bessa R2
Eugene Lee / 06 Jan 2018
(previous episode: Canon 7 vs Leica M)
1. This Bessa R2 I bought used in 2015, to compliment my Leica M2 - shooting colour, something to use when my Leica is broken (which happens ALL OF THE TIME because I keep dropping it), that sort of thing. This camera was used as my daily camera more or less for two years; and in that time the meter has gone crazy (flickering LEDs and other problems), the knob has broken off of the rewind lever, and the finder has gathered enough dust to warrant taking the camera apart for cleaning.
2. Taking the top cover off was something like 6 months in the making - on my first attempt I couldn't get the "screw" over the wind lever off. And I tried again more recently - made a flexiclamp, put an unreasonable amount of torque into it, and nothing happened. Turns out that it's not a screw at all - it's just a cover - and the screws that hold the plastic wind lever tip on also hold the cover on. Well bollocks.
The rest of the top cover removal is pretty straightforward. The hot shoe screws are concealed under a flat spring that needs to be pried up from the front and slid back. Note which way the bits under the ASA / shutter speed dial are oriented. The rewind crank needs to be unscrewed from the fork in the film chamber as usual, but the screw with the red dot on it (on the top of the camera) needs to be removed as well, and it's held in with thread locking adhesive. There are two screws under the rubber body covering. No need to undo the PC sync port.
3. Top cover off - top view.
4. Back view.
5. Front view
6. Rangefinder. Look at all of the dust! It's not this dust that's the issue, but rather somewhere else in the rangefinder, where it's in focus in the rangefinder patch. That's quite annoying.
7. More dust.
8. Frame counter drive - the white plastic circle with a triangle cut out of it. One full rotation moves the counter one increment. A spring holds the circle against the counter gear; a flexible fit is required for the mechanism to work. It's kind of like a geneva drive.
9. Another view of the counter drive.
10. The rangefinder unit is held to the chassis with three screws and three brass spacers - and, of course, one ribbon connector for the meter LEDs and a wire for the flash contacts.
I'm leaving it at this for tonight - before I pull more stuff apart tomorrow, let me know if you have any questions or if there's anything in particular you'd like me to look at...
Eugene Lee / 06 Jan 2018
(previous episode: Canon 7 vs Leica M)
1. This Bessa R2 I bought used in 2015, to compliment my Leica M2 - shooting colour, something to use when my Leica is broken (which happens ALL OF THE TIME because I keep dropping it), that sort of thing. This camera was used as my daily camera more or less for two years; and in that time the meter has gone crazy (flickering LEDs and other problems), the knob has broken off of the rewind lever, and the finder has gathered enough dust to warrant taking the camera apart for cleaning.
2. Taking the top cover off was something like 6 months in the making - on my first attempt I couldn't get the "screw" over the wind lever off. And I tried again more recently - made a flexiclamp, put an unreasonable amount of torque into it, and nothing happened. Turns out that it's not a screw at all - it's just a cover - and the screws that hold the plastic wind lever tip on also hold the cover on. Well bollocks.
The rest of the top cover removal is pretty straightforward. The hot shoe screws are concealed under a flat spring that needs to be pried up from the front and slid back. Note which way the bits under the ASA / shutter speed dial are oriented. The rewind crank needs to be unscrewed from the fork in the film chamber as usual, but the screw with the red dot on it (on the top of the camera) needs to be removed as well, and it's held in with thread locking adhesive. There are two screws under the rubber body covering. No need to undo the PC sync port.
3. Top cover off - top view.
4. Back view.
5. Front view
6. Rangefinder. Look at all of the dust! It's not this dust that's the issue, but rather somewhere else in the rangefinder, where it's in focus in the rangefinder patch. That's quite annoying.
7. More dust.
8. Frame counter drive - the white plastic circle with a triangle cut out of it. One full rotation moves the counter one increment. A spring holds the circle against the counter gear; a flexible fit is required for the mechanism to work. It's kind of like a geneva drive.
9. Another view of the counter drive.
10. The rangefinder unit is held to the chassis with three screws and three brass spacers - and, of course, one ribbon connector for the meter LEDs and a wire for the flash contacts.
I'm leaving it at this for tonight - before I pull more stuff apart tomorrow, let me know if you have any questions or if there's anything in particular you'd like me to look at...
B-9
Devin Bro
Cool! Thanks for sharing!
Seeing your winder reminds me I should try one.
Seeing your winder reminds me I should try one.
mooge
Well-known
Devin - the winder's kinda neat, but I pretty much never use it.
11. Here's something weird - the Bessa R2 has a self timer.
The timer mechanism is in there, there's a hole for a lever and space in the back of the front plate casting but there's no lever there, obviously. But why? And what else is Cosina hiding from us????!?!?!
Of course I'm gonna try and make a lever for it.
More to come later.
11. Here's something weird - the Bessa R2 has a self timer.
The timer mechanism is in there, there's a hole for a lever and space in the back of the front plate casting but there's no lever there, obviously. But why? And what else is Cosina hiding from us????!?!?!
Of course I'm gonna try and make a lever for it.
More to come later.
f16sunshine
Moderator
It’s as some have suspected.
The carraige and shutter is the same as the Cosina made Nikon FM10, Olympus Om2000, Yashica FX3 etc...
Why not. Although lightweight those cameras have pretty reliable shutrers and meters.
Cosina just burried the self timer and built an rf system instead of mirrorbox/slr-prism/VF.
Good detective work.... having fun?
The carraige and shutter is the same as the Cosina made Nikon FM10, Olympus Om2000, Yashica FX3 etc...
Why not. Although lightweight those cameras have pretty reliable shutrers and meters.
Cosina just burried the self timer and built an rf system instead of mirrorbox/slr-prism/VF.
Good detective work.... having fun?
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
Devin - the winder's kinda neat, but I pretty much never use it.
11. Here's something weird - the Bessa R2 has a self timer.
The timer mechanism is in there, there's a hole for a lever and space in the back of the front plate casting but there's no lever there, obviously. But why? And what else is Cosina hiding from us????!?!?!
Of course I'm gonna try and make a lever for it.
More to come later.
Haha, what a secret well hidden. Front cover makers forget to make a hole? Last minute cost reduction? I think in some cameras the slow speed gears and self timer gears are combined, not sure if it's the case in Bessa-R2.
Since the cover is removed, I would check and re-glue the film counter cover window if it's not super tight. The one on R often goes loose according to user reports, and it has happened to mine too. Never owned an R2, maybe they improved it.
mooge
Well-known
No, there's a hole and all in the front cover - the rubber "leatherette" covers it up. I guess I shouldn't be so surprised the self timer is there - but I don't get why they wouldn't put a lever there to go with it. It can't possibly save them that much money, and self timers are rather useful (I think anyway). It's not connected to the slow speeds but it appears to be a pretty integral part of the shutter mechanism.
Thanks for the suggestion, nukecoke, I'll throw some glue on there before it gets buttoned up.
Thanks for the suggestion, nukecoke, I'll throw some glue on there before it gets buttoned up.
MaxElmar
Well-known
That's amazing! I wonder if the lever from the "R" will fit?... Or FM10?
mooge
Well-known
MaxElmar - yeah, I'm curious if parts could be dropped in without any work. I'm also curious if all of the other Bessas have self timers (and holes)...
Took a coupla more things off - no more dirty secrets and no obvious cause for my flickering light meter...
12. The leatherette rubber is stuck to the camera with a sort of double sided tape - it's actually easier to scrape it off without using lighter fluid, which turns it into this sort of gooey mess.
13. Lens release button - two springs! I had trouble keeping the button straight on my Canon 7 M-mount conversion - maybe I'll copy this if I ever get to redoing it.
14. The strap lugs come out easily and it would be easy ("easy") to make offset ones if you don't like the way how the Bessa hangs weird with lighter lenses. I have the trigger winder on the camera most of the time so this was never an issue for me.
15. Plastic bevel gears under the shutter speed dial. The spring at 9 o'clock provides the detents (click stops) for the dial.
The screw is a little cheesed because I tried to take it off to get access to the wiper for the ISO setting - it's on there pretty good and I didn't feel like breaking it.
16. Another look at the plastic bevel gears.
17. This black plastic gear is what controls the shutter speeds on the shutter; the plastic bevel gears and the brass idler transfer the shutter speed dial rotation to this gear. Directly above and behind the black gear is the slow speeds escapement.
Also, there's some foam behind the top of the shutter mechanism. Why? No idea.
18. The front plate removed from the camera.
19. The self timer (pencil point) and the corresponding hole in the front plate...
20. ...And the recess in the front plate that should house a lever for the self timer
21. Bottom of the camera.
A - Trigger winder drive spline. This shaft rotates 120 degrees and doesn't return
B - Wind stroke lock. Locks winding after wind stroke is completed
C - Shutter release interlock. Locks shutter button unless shutter is cocked.
D - Self timer
E - Shutter cocking lever
Took a coupla more things off - no more dirty secrets and no obvious cause for my flickering light meter...
12. The leatherette rubber is stuck to the camera with a sort of double sided tape - it's actually easier to scrape it off without using lighter fluid, which turns it into this sort of gooey mess.
13. Lens release button - two springs! I had trouble keeping the button straight on my Canon 7 M-mount conversion - maybe I'll copy this if I ever get to redoing it.
14. The strap lugs come out easily and it would be easy ("easy") to make offset ones if you don't like the way how the Bessa hangs weird with lighter lenses. I have the trigger winder on the camera most of the time so this was never an issue for me.
15. Plastic bevel gears under the shutter speed dial. The spring at 9 o'clock provides the detents (click stops) for the dial.
The screw is a little cheesed because I tried to take it off to get access to the wiper for the ISO setting - it's on there pretty good and I didn't feel like breaking it.
16. Another look at the plastic bevel gears.
17. This black plastic gear is what controls the shutter speeds on the shutter; the plastic bevel gears and the brass idler transfer the shutter speed dial rotation to this gear. Directly above and behind the black gear is the slow speeds escapement.
Also, there's some foam behind the top of the shutter mechanism. Why? No idea.
18. The front plate removed from the camera.
19. The self timer (pencil point) and the corresponding hole in the front plate...
20. ...And the recess in the front plate that should house a lever for the self timer
21. Bottom of the camera.
A - Trigger winder drive spline. This shaft rotates 120 degrees and doesn't return
B - Wind stroke lock. Locks winding after wind stroke is completed
C - Shutter release interlock. Locks shutter button unless shutter is cocked.
D - Self timer
E - Shutter cocking lever
Archlich
Well-known
I wonder if my Zeiss Ikon has a self timer as well...
monopix
Cam repairer
The chassis is a Cosina CT1 chassis which is not the same as a Yashica FX3. That has a chassis that started out in a Contax 139. I can't speak for the Olympus or Nikon.It’s as some have suspected.
The carraige and shutter is the same as the Cosina made Nikon FM10, Olympus Om2000, Yashica FX3 etc...
Why not. Although lightweight those cameras have pretty reliable shutrers and meters.
Cosina just burried the self timer and built an rf system instead of mirrorbox/slr-prism/VF.
Good detective work.... having fun?
The shutter is similar but not the same. The Bessas have extra curtains in them.
Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
Does Contax 139 have anything to do with Cosina? Or were they just simply using a similar chassis? I know they both came out around 1979. But the 139 is an A mode camera and the layout of the dials are quite different from the series manual SLRs and the Bessas mentioned above, so I also wonder if the chassis are that similar from inside.
Btw you can install the back door of Olympus OM2000 on a Bessa-R. The bottom plate of om2000 has an extra part in the front due to its SLR body design, if you cut off the extra plastic then you can also install it on a Bessa-R. These two cameras are almost brothers.
Om 2000 has a better finish, with a thin layer of zinc copper alloy on the plastic plates, which is dropped off when they built Bessa-R. It's harder to bend and break in comparison with R's thin, thin plastic, and the paint doesn't chip as easy.
More precisely, the Cosina CT1 Super chassis and specifications, as far as I've read here: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Cosina_CT1_Super
monopix
Cam repairer
I don't think there's any difference in the chassis between the CT1 and the CT1 Super. The change was primarily the change of shutter and some styling changes.
Looking at the FM10 and OM2000, they do seem to be on the CT1 chassis but the FX-3 definitley wasn't.
monopix
Cam repairer
The chassis appears again in some Chinese models e.g. the Huaxia DC-1 and a couple of Phenix models.
Edit: I no longer believe Cosina had anything to do with any of the above cameras mentioned. They were mostly made by Phenix in China.
mooge
Well-known
And here it is - a self timer lever for the R2. Not as much filing as I thought it would be, but it still took way too long (total: maybe 4 hours, probably more) and of course it's not perfect. But whatever, it works - and no modifications to the camera parts at all.
More on this, and more on the bessa, later...
f16sunshine
Moderator
Actually, the 139 is a completely different camera.
Electronic shutter. Shutter dial on the left,TTL flash, Electronic shutter button (classic RTS style electromagnetic). etc...
There was a Yashica FXD that was the predecessor of the FX3 but only in styling.
Pretty sure the FX3 is part of the plastic CT1 family.
monopix
Cam repairer
Yes the 139 is a totally different camera but the FX-3 chassis is almost the same. I've worked on more than enough of both of them to know that for a fact. How many have you worked on?
Mjd-djm
Established
Just tried to take mine apart. All worked ok except the top just would not come off... it felt like it was still attached above the door hinge (I had already taken the screws under the cover out. So I put it all back together. Any ideas? Am I missing something?
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
Pics would help.
Mjd-djm
Established
I’ve put the camera back together now. I’ve removed all of the parts shown in the pics. The problem appears to be right on the hinge of the back door at the top. Could it be that it is stuck down with glue? I can see the other end of the top plate starting to lift.