John Bragg
Well-known
I posted a thread last week about the Mju ii and it's inability to live up to the hype. My main complaint has been failure to focus on what I'm shooting. This is a real problem with that model in my experience, but it's predecessor, the original Mju1 is usually much better behaved. I had only a few failures with it and almost all with the camera in portrait orientation. Focus would be just off enough to spoil things and I started to analyse the problem and came to a startling conclusion. The problem was almost certainly in how I held the camera. I tend to put my right hand over the top when shooting the camera vertically and trip the shutter with my index finger. This has been my way with all my cameras and usually results in a sharp shot, even hand held at low shutter speeds (within reason). This is ok with a Leica M6 or any of my ttl metering SLRs but the compact design of the Mju has IR focussing windows placed on the front. All it takes is a finger tip slightly covering one and the system can't function. Sure enough that was happening, but if I hold the camera the other way up, and trip the shutter with my thumb, the problem is solved. I have a test roll of HP5+ ready to scan (which I shot with a modified hold) and it appears that critical focus was achieved 100% of the time.
I have relatively small hands, but this is a very real possibility with such a small design.
Finger in way. How not to do it. by E.J. Bragg, on Flickr
I have relatively small hands, but this is a very real possibility with such a small design.
Finger in way. How not to do it. by E.J. Bragg, on Flickr
Michael Markey
Veteran
Often the way John.
I had constant problems with my Sony cameras ( I still have one ).
That is because of the sheer number of buttons on the back v size of my hands .
Always altering something inadvertently .
I had constant problems with my Sony cameras ( I still have one ).
That is because of the sheer number of buttons on the back v size of my hands .
Always altering something inadvertently .
John Bragg
Well-known
Good morning Michael. I prefer the ergonomics of the Mju I but this has been a niggle for a while. It may be that the Mju ii is similarly affected by this simple failure in the human interface. I have a feeling that the rangefinder baseline is shorter on that one. I must revisit and test.
valdas
Veteran
It’s interesting how different shooting techniques are - my holding hand is normally at the bottom...
Michael Markey
Veteran
I`ve had a number of them starting back from when they were first introduced .
I can`t ever remember using them in that vertical orientation though .
Despite all the reviews you never really know if a camera is suitable until you actually use it yourself .
I`m about to find that out today.
I`m expecting a leica CL (digital ) this morning
John Bragg
Well-known
That's how I have always been taught, but I am willing to change when using a small p&s. It actually is more stable if you press against your forehead. Works well with the XA3 also,and may help in low light when flash isn't an option.
John Bragg
Well-known
I`ve had a number of them starting back from when they were first introduced .
I can`t ever remember using them in that vertical orientation though .
Despite all the reviews you never really know if a camera is suitable until you actually use it yourself .
I`m about to find that out today.
I`m expecting a leica CL (digital ) this morning
Hope you like it. Great day for a socially diatanced walk and a few casual shots.
valdas
Veteran
I agree that your way is probably the correct one and gives more stability (I have never read any theory about this, just using my instincts). But with small P&S the stability is not suffering, I assume. And with bigger cameras I always use both hands.
John Bragg
Well-known
I always use both hands too but had to take the illustrative shot somehow 😁
Prest_400
Multiformat
John, it might seem humorous but the series of threads due to observations you've been posting under lockdown have been quite relevant and I seem to have something involved in it.
Summer 2018 I was lucky to get a couple of mju I's at a thrift store for a few pounds. I determined not to need both and traded one for a good Canon speedlight which I haven't used either much. The person I traded it with got some really nice shots but also told me about the focus, and sold that camera.
I notice the mju's do have some focusing quirks. Great EDC camera as it is small, but I've been frustrated when it misses, specially for portraits.
I've put my friend's face in the square, dangit, why did that thing focus infintiy on some randim birds flying?!
And his face is large enough on the frame, what more obvious does it have to be?
Oh well, when the shot is nice but the person out of focus I just tell them, "it'some 90s hipster thing"
Summer 2018 I was lucky to get a couple of mju I's at a thrift store for a few pounds. I determined not to need both and traded one for a good Canon speedlight which I haven't used either much. The person I traded it with got some really nice shots but also told me about the focus, and sold that camera.
I notice the mju's do have some focusing quirks. Great EDC camera as it is small, but I've been frustrated when it misses, specially for portraits.
I've put my friend's face in the square, dangit, why did that thing focus infintiy on some randim birds flying?!
And his face is large enough on the frame, what more obvious does it have to be?
Oh well, when the shot is nice but the person out of focus I just tell them, "it'some 90s hipster thing"
zenza
Well-known
This may actually be the problem the author of this thread is facing. I've found a number of manuals that do not recommend holding the camera overhand for portrait mode, some stating the metering/AF systems won't work properly.
Underhand is the way to go.
John Bragg
Well-known
I have never been underhand in my life Sir ! I refute that remark !
Just kidding. That is the conclusion from all of my rambling op. Just thought to share my findings and help some other poor soul who can't understand why his latest retro point and shoot wont work as stated. Small cameras have quirks all of their own.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Well, I am entirely underhand, so no problems here.
John Bragg
Well-known
Indeed it is funny how many of us encounter the same problems and deal with them in our own ways. My highly scientific testing (er hem) has involved shooting mostly longways and a variety of challenging subjects that just might be hard for a compact to nail focus on. Tight portraits of my daughter, still lifes and environmental shots of her painting and using Play Doh. All shots focussed properly. The classic missed focus shot with these cameras is a photo of two people with a slight gap between them. Nuff said.
zenza
Well-known
Interestingly enough, one of the camera manuals that specifically say to not hold overhand is the Fuji GA645 series. Quoting the manual for the reasoning:
"Hold the camera with the grip to the bottom.
lf you hold the camera with the grip to the top, a shadow of the lens
hood is cast on part of the AF light sensor under top-light or partial
against-the-light conditions. This can result in range-finding errors"
So sometimes it's less to do with wandering hands and more to do with casting shadows on focusing components.
John Bragg
Well-known
Great information thanks.That Fuji is a beast of a p&s !
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
Most instruction manuals I've seen show one's left hand used to support camera from beneath.
The right hand can then gingerly hold top and press shutter release - without blocking VF and AF windows.
Chris
The right hand can then gingerly hold top and press shutter release - without blocking VF and AF windows.
Chris
charjohncarter
Veteran
I have the Stylus Infinity (MJU I) and I've only had one focus problem and that was 20 years ago (or more). I was in a fog forest in Costa Rica and fog 'fooled' the AF system. So watch fog. Generally, my Infinity has been great: AF dead on, and fill flash the same:
From my first roll of TMY-about 1997-8 by John Carter, on Flickr
From my first roll of TMY-about 1997-8 by John Carter, on Flickr