denizg7
Well-known
Hello All,
I am trying to enter into medium format photography. I will always keep 35mm film camera's due to their size and since i always carry one with me , so I don't need the ultimate medium format camera or the setup.
I don't know if Twin lens reflex system is the way for me to enter or a medium format rangefinder for that matter so i am asking for suggestions and advice for it from people that entered the mf system..
Now about 2 months ago in craigslist i found a tlr for 75 bucks and it seemed like a rolleiflex clone a nice one.
I wanna try mf with the least expensive way , yet outputs great files once scanned.
thanks
I am trying to enter into medium format photography. I will always keep 35mm film camera's due to their size and since i always carry one with me , so I don't need the ultimate medium format camera or the setup.
I don't know if Twin lens reflex system is the way for me to enter or a medium format rangefinder for that matter so i am asking for suggestions and advice for it from people that entered the mf system..
Now about 2 months ago in craigslist i found a tlr for 75 bucks and it seemed like a rolleiflex clone a nice one.
I wanna try mf with the least expensive way , yet outputs great files once scanned.
thanks
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
A TLR is probably the cheapest way to enter. They are pretty weird and hard to get used to, though. Definitely not for everyone.
I bought a Bronica SQ-A on ebay for $140 a month or two ago. I've only shot one roll (my main camera is a Mamiya 7, and before that I had a Pentax 6x7 - this is my first 6x6 slr) and I'm really enjoying it.
Notice the minor light leak.
For $140, I'm pretty satisfied. I'll get the film back fixed, buy a few more lenses, and keep it under $400 for a complete kit, eventually. The TLR is going to be a little smaller but, IMO, more cumbersome and annoying.
On a budget, I would also recommend the Koni-Omega series of rangefinders, like the 200. They're pretty cheap, and though they're probably as awkward as a TLR (you have to literally cock the shutter, like you were cocking a gun) and really hideous, they're good cameras. They allow for the rangefinder experience AND a 6x7 negative, which I prefer to square format.
I bought a Bronica SQ-A on ebay for $140 a month or two ago. I've only shot one roll (my main camera is a Mamiya 7, and before that I had a Pentax 6x7 - this is my first 6x6 slr) and I'm really enjoying it.
Notice the minor light leak.
For $140, I'm pretty satisfied. I'll get the film back fixed, buy a few more lenses, and keep it under $400 for a complete kit, eventually. The TLR is going to be a little smaller but, IMO, more cumbersome and annoying.
On a budget, I would also recommend the Koni-Omega series of rangefinders, like the 200. They're pretty cheap, and though they're probably as awkward as a TLR (you have to literally cock the shutter, like you were cocking a gun) and really hideous, they're good cameras. They allow for the rangefinder experience AND a 6x7 negative, which I prefer to square format.
denizg7
Well-known
Wow thanks! I am going to check out the omega's and various other cheap selections..
Just a quick question , did you ever try to get your film scanned the highest detail possible?? pixel wise??
i heard that mf film sensors can out perform full frame 35mm digitals in terms of detail. That's why i am asking thanks!
Just a quick question , did you ever try to get your film scanned the highest detail possible?? pixel wise??
i heard that mf film sensors can out perform full frame 35mm digitals in terms of detail. That's why i am asking thanks!
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Yashica-Mat. It'll tell you what you want to know without breaking the bank. Capable of very good results so it could be the only one you need. Just be patient and get one in good condition- lots of them out there.
Or Bronica ETR/S/i. Good prices, good results. Get a prism and speed grip and it'll feel like a 35mm camera.
Anything below these two is going to be limited by lens and mechanical issues. Anything above is going to be more money than you need to start out with.
Or Bronica ETR/S/i. Good prices, good results. Get a prism and speed grip and it'll feel like a 35mm camera.
Anything below these two is going to be limited by lens and mechanical issues. Anything above is going to be more money than you need to start out with.
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
Well, I suppose it depends. I routinely scan on an Imacon drum scanner (mostly 4x5 negatives) at 3200dpi. With the right equipment, scans can very easily outperform digital sensors, especially in terms of dynamic range and texture. Sharpness wise, I have to say, it doesn't really matter what you use. I know that seems to fly in the face of everything you've ever heard, but that's what I've learned after dealing with all this stuff. You can blow up a 35mm photo the size of a wall, and if you're standing at a reasonable distance, you won't notice or care.
Outperform is a funny word. The best digital sensors these days - Leaf Credo and Aptus, and the higher end Nikons and Canons - can easily compete with medium format film in terms of sharpness and detail, though definitely not dynamic range and perspective (of a larger "sensor" size, that is directly related to how big the sensor is). To me, film still wins. And it's still cheaper, although another few years of this and I might have to switch to digital because I don't want to eat ramen forever
denizg7
Well-known
wow loving the size of the koni rapid omega 200. Never mind the TLRs sorry for posting this on the tlr section , changed my mind! great pictures keytar
does this look like a good option/price? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Koni-Rapid-...856253266?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item2a1bdf6b52
thanks by the way , where were this pictures taken in new zealand??
does this look like a good option/price? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Koni-Rapid-...856253266?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item2a1bdf6b52
thanks by the way , where were this pictures taken in new zealand??
jwicaksana
Jakarta, Indonesia
Another MF newbie here, I started out by buying a TLR a few months ago.
Hope this will get your attention back on the lovely classic design:
Rolleicord III by jwicaksana, on Flickr
Oh, it takes fine pictures as well, one from my very first test roll! (Hey it worked right out of the box - which was a nice surprise)
http://500px.com/photo/13355521
Hope this will get your attention back on the lovely classic design:
Rolleicord III by jwicaksana, on Flickr
Oh, it takes fine pictures as well, one from my very first test roll! (Hey it worked right out of the box - which was a nice surprise)
http://500px.com/photo/13355521
jeanba3000
squareLover
A TLR is still a very good way of photography. Here are some good points to consider, not exhaustive list :
- in 6x6 you don't have to turn 90° your camera to shoot vertically,
- the lowest point of view with a waist level finder tends to magnify the people you shoot,
- the waist level finder makes you take a humble attitude, people on the street usually will find you less aggressive than with a camera at eye level pointed at them like a gun, they even might feel sympathy towards you, if they notice you !
- leaf shutter make TLR very quiet, a Rolleiflex is quieter than a Leica M, you don't imagine how that and the waist level finder make TLR discreet cameras,
- also leaf shutter instead of focal plane shutter and no moving mirror authorize pretty slower speeds when handheld than SLR or camera with focal plane shutter, like 1/15s or 1/8s,
- composing on a 6x6 screen is a great sensation, you feel like already watching the picture, and for critical focusing, you have a folding magnifying glass in the finder's hood and may have a center split image on the screen,
…
The only detail to get used to with waist level finder (so with any reflex camera without prism finder) is the left-right inversion, especially with moving subjects, nothing insurmountable.
- in 6x6 you don't have to turn 90° your camera to shoot vertically,
- the lowest point of view with a waist level finder tends to magnify the people you shoot,
- the waist level finder makes you take a humble attitude, people on the street usually will find you less aggressive than with a camera at eye level pointed at them like a gun, they even might feel sympathy towards you, if they notice you !
- leaf shutter make TLR very quiet, a Rolleiflex is quieter than a Leica M, you don't imagine how that and the waist level finder make TLR discreet cameras,
- also leaf shutter instead of focal plane shutter and no moving mirror authorize pretty slower speeds when handheld than SLR or camera with focal plane shutter, like 1/15s or 1/8s,
- composing on a 6x6 screen is a great sensation, you feel like already watching the picture, and for critical focusing, you have a folding magnifying glass in the finder's hood and may have a center split image on the screen,
…
The only detail to get used to with waist level finder (so with any reflex camera without prism finder) is the left-right inversion, especially with moving subjects, nothing insurmountable.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Dear Denizg7,
when getting into Rolleicord clones, avoid Biokor and Tri-Lausar lenses. In general they are often 'soft', as if a bit hazed. You'll miss sharpness.
The Yashikor lenses are closely related. The Yashinon lenses are what you can find on the high-end Yashica's and it's a much better lens.
The lenses on Rolleicords in general are also sharper lenses, although of course after so many years some variation is likely.
When looking into a Ciro-Flex (pretty cheap stateside and nice camera's too), the Anastigmat and the Velostigmat lenses are identical, just a matter of different branding to boost sales.
Many people here love the Zeiss-Ikon TLR's and the Ricohmat models which are also capable of very sharp shots!
The Mamiya TLR's are great but you'll need a trolley to avoid muscle ruptures in your back
Hope this helps!
when getting into Rolleicord clones, avoid Biokor and Tri-Lausar lenses. In general they are often 'soft', as if a bit hazed. You'll miss sharpness.
The Yashikor lenses are closely related. The Yashinon lenses are what you can find on the high-end Yashica's and it's a much better lens.
The lenses on Rolleicords in general are also sharper lenses, although of course after so many years some variation is likely.
When looking into a Ciro-Flex (pretty cheap stateside and nice camera's too), the Anastigmat and the Velostigmat lenses are identical, just a matter of different branding to boost sales.
Many people here love the Zeiss-Ikon TLR's and the Ricohmat models which are also capable of very sharp shots!
The Mamiya TLR's are great but you'll need a trolley to avoid muscle ruptures in your back
Hope this helps!
jwicaksana
Jakarta, Indonesia
Someone with experience should tell a thing or two about the Autocord! Maybe you can add a little about it, Johan?Dear Denizg7,
when getting into Rolleicord clones, avoid Biokor and Tri-Lausar lenses. In general they are often 'soft', as if a bit hazed. You'll miss sharpness.
The Yashikor lenses are closely related. The Yashinon lenses are what you can find on the high-end Yashica's and it's a much better lens.
The lenses on Rolleicords in general are also sharper lenses, although of course after so many years some variation is likely.
When looking into a Ciro-Flex (pretty cheap stateside and nice camera's too), the Anastigmat and the Velostigmat lenses are identical, just a matter of different branding to boost sales.
Many people here love the Zeiss-Ikon TLR's and the Ricohmat models which are also capable of very sharp shots!
The Mamiya TLR's are great but you'll need a trolley to avoid muscle ruptures in your back
Hope this helps!
I haven't met anyone that hate their Autocord.
denizg7
Well-known
wow thanks johan and jean , i am already learning so much. guess this won't be a quick decision.
I will post here once i found good priced tlrs or other mf's for that matter to check it with you experts..
thanks again
I will post here once i found good priced tlrs or other mf's for that matter to check it with you experts..
thanks again
jeanba3000
squareLover
Autocord are known to have a pretty sharp lens.
Yashica are good value camera, a 124 G with built-in light meter is be a good choice in that brand.
Rolleicord are the best quality for price, compact and light, of Rollei TLR.
Mamiya C has interchangeable lenses and very close focusing, sturdy and good optics, but bigger and heavier than other TLR (not insurmountable though).
The most important thing about TLR is to get one with perfectly aligned lenses, a deformation will make the focusing different on the screen and on the film, ruining your efforts of focusing, so watch for and avoid bump marks.
Another important thing : you want to get a lot of pleasure with a medium camera, so take all your time, read as many informations you can on cameras, watch pictures of them, consider the handling and the feeling with one or another medium camera, as there are so many types. Google is your friend.
Yashica are good value camera, a 124 G with built-in light meter is be a good choice in that brand.
Rolleicord are the best quality for price, compact and light, of Rollei TLR.
Mamiya C has interchangeable lenses and very close focusing, sturdy and good optics, but bigger and heavier than other TLR (not insurmountable though).
The most important thing about TLR is to get one with perfectly aligned lenses, a deformation will make the focusing different on the screen and on the film, ruining your efforts of focusing, so watch for and avoid bump marks.
Another important thing : you want to get a lot of pleasure with a medium camera, so take all your time, read as many informations you can on cameras, watch pictures of them, consider the handling and the feeling with one or another medium camera, as there are so many types. Google is your friend.
thegman
Veteran
In terms of resolution, *35mm* film can outperform full frame digital sometimes:
http://www.twinlenslife.com/2011/01/digital-vs-film-canon-5d-mark-ii-vs.html
Of course, the 5D Mk II is no longer state of the art, and this comparison is with ISO 100 film, even at ISO 400, I think the tables would turn quickly and decisively in favour of digital.
So with that in mind, medium format, given a decent lens etc, should be able to very easily outresolve a full frame digital, although I'd imagine a D800 is pretty close. So many factors involved of course, you can find results on the internet to show the opposite.
Garry
sanmich
Veteran
First questions to ask:
- Do you want a system or can you be happy with one lens and one film?
- Do you want to shoot squares (6x6), squarish (6x7), or rectangles (4.5x6, 6x9)
- Do you want a system or can you be happy with one lens and one film?
- Do you want to shoot squares (6x6), squarish (6x7), or rectangles (4.5x6, 6x9)
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Someone with experience should tell a thing or two about the Autocord! Maybe you can add a little about it, Johan?
I haven't met anyone that hate their Autocord.
Dear Jonathan,
Years ago, a friend got a successful 48-sheet poster off his Autocord...
But personally, I've just never got along with TLRs.
Cheers,
R.
denizg7
Well-known
wow i just checked Roge's site. Amazing how many valuable people are on the forums , amazing.
jwicaksana
Jakarta, Indonesia
Hi Roger,
Thanks for sharing that story with us!
Edit: I just found out that a 48 sheet poster is a huge one! WOW!
May I ask if the Autocord's focusing screen is brighter than the 1950's 'Cord and 'Flex, assuming both are clean and in good shape?
mwoenv
Well-known
A 645 interchangable-lens SLR (Pentax, Mamiya, Bronica) with a standard lens will cost around the same as a good TLR and is more versatile as you can add lenses inexpensively if you like the camera. They handle like 35mm cameras and image quality is significantly better than 35mm. For prints, you have to crop more with square negatives as standard print sizes are not square.
Just some considerations.
I'd recommend KEH.com as I see a lot of ebay prices are bid up close to KEH's prices but KEH provides a 6-month warranty.
Just some considerations.
I'd recommend KEH.com as I see a lot of ebay prices are bid up close to KEH's prices but KEH provides a 6-month warranty.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Yes. At the end of the '50s Rollei started using fresnel screens. I don't know when this started exactly and what models. I had a Rolleicord Va II with a nice fresnel screen, and a Va I with a plain ground glass screen. A 3.5E (1) has a ground glass screen.
Rollei was constantly making small tweaks to models throughout the '50s, so it's best to ask directly about features on an actual camera.
I wouldn't buy based on the focus screen. A replacement screen can be had for ~$30 from Rick Oleson.
The Minolta Autocord is a very nice TLR.
Dave Jenkins
Loose Canon
You should not buy a TLR without first handling one. You will either love the handling or you will be uncomfortable with it. I personally think the TLR is the easiest to handle of all camera designs, but YMMV.
Jeanba, I've been reading your article on TLRgraphy.
Jeanba, I've been reading your article on TLRgraphy.