My experience with FSU/DDR cameras

[p.giannakis]

I am writing this post as i look at the Zorki 4K sitting jammed next to my laptop. I bought it for £20 just for the Jupiter-8 that looks in good condition.

I have had good experience with FSU lenses - sure, i got an Industar-61 that was lemon but i also got one that was great too. A rigid Industar-50 was good and i am waiting to see how the J-8 performs.
The Helios 58 f/2 has been for a long time one of my favourite lenses and I also had a few Pentacons which were nice. A Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50mm 1.8 came and went - good lens but i liked the Helios better.

On the other hand, my experience with FSU/DDR cameras has been atrocious. So far i had:
* This Zorki 4k : Jammed
* A Fed 3b: Overlapping frames after a couple of films
* A Fed 4: Speeds 1/30 and 1/60 dragging their feet. The 1/125 was questionable too
* A Zorki 6: Unusably slow 1/30 and 1/60 speeds.
* Kiev III : Overlapping frames. Speeds (1/30 and 1/60) of questionable accuracy.

SLR's:
* Pretty much every Practika i had (BMS, MTL-5 and two BX-20) developed a faulty shutter. Only exception was a LTL-3 which kept on working.
* A Zenit-12 worked well for a couple of years until it developed a strange lightleak which i have been unable to identify where it comes from.
* [Edit, also remembered]: A EXA Ib that did not advance the film and an Exakta VX-1000 with a severe capping issue.
My first camera was a Practika so in a way i am attracted to those cameras but my experience with them has been less than positive.

 

[btgc]

What can I say? Life isn't perfect. Yet some men are attracted by far from perfect things, women, cars, etc. Perfection is like sharpness - it's a concept created by human mind, not always coinciding with concepts of nature.

 

[tunalegs]

I've had many rolls through Exas, Exaktas, Prakticas, A zorki 4 and Fed 3 - where the worst faults were my compositions.

On the other hand I've had several Kievs that haven't worked worth a damn. I've given up on that brand. Never again.

 

[p.giannakis]

I've had many rolls through Exas, Exaktas, ....

Thanks for reminding me... I also added a EXA Ib and a VX-1000 on my list....

 

[underlord]

I gave up on those cameras long ago. I have owned FED 5B, FED 2, Zorki, Zorki 3-C, Zorki 4K, Kiev 4 and 4A and Exacta Varex IIb. I sold them all but kept the FED 2. It now has shutter problems and is heading for a service.

 

[ForestCap]

I've only had bad experience with FED-2, had three of them and managed to make one of them work properly.

I have two Zorki-1, two Zorki-6, two Kiev-4a, all serviced at home and work well.

Sold the Zorki-4 for the larger size and unusable viewfinder.

 

[tunalegs]

I've only had bad experience with FED-2, had three of them and managed to make one of them work properly.

I have two Zorki-1, two Zorki-6, two Kiev-4a, all serviced at home and work well.

Sold the Zorki-4 for the larger size and unusable viewfinder.

That's kind of weird, given the Zorki 4 has a viewfinder that is worlds better than any of the other cameras in your list. What did you find unusable about it?

 

[ForestCap]

That's kind of weird, given the Zorki 4 has a viewfinder that is worlds better than any of the other cameras in your list. What did you find unusable about it?

I wouldn't call it worlds better just because the magnification is higher. Zorki-6's finder is the best to me among all the cameras listed above.

About Zorki-4:
the eye relief is literally zero. I wear eye glasses.

And when I actually stick my eyeball to the eyepiece and used peripheral vision to frame, I found the framing is much wider than the view of a 50mm lens. I compared it with digital cameras and found it more like 45mm. I like the frame to be tighter if not accurate, so you actually get what you see on the film.

The diopter changes the FOV way too much, the one on Zorki-6 is much more acceptable.

 

[David Hughes]

Hmmm, but the Zorki was bought second-hand wasn't it? And I suspect the previous owner didn't RTFM, don't you?

I could write a similar couple of posts about my experiences with Japanese cameras and sellers; mention the Fuji Tiara with the prime lens and I fume and curse the seller (also Japanese) and camera. Same goes for German cameras, just look at those threads about Leicas that fail. And I've a 35mm Minox and a Contax that might be excellent cameras if any one could repair them but they won't touch them...

The odd thing is that people are happy to pay a lot for a Leica and lens and get it/them repaired for hundreds but won't pay a fraction of that amount to sort out a FED, Zorki or Zenit.

I've had a FED I and a Leica II for years. I use them both and the FED eventually needed a service (blinds mainly) and the Leica is going back soon (shutter problems). They are both old cameras and time, usage and the previous owners have all affected then but I don't mind getting them repaired properly and paying for it because both cameras are worth it. When done they feel the same and behave the same.

Reading various threads I reckon the same parts fail too.

In some ways the Leica is better and in other ways the FED is better, but that generalisation applies to most cameras when compared. Or lenses if my Summars are compared with the FED f/2 50mm lens.

The trouble is, we think like accountants when we should be thinking like engineers, photographers and collectors. The fact is that all cameras fail sooner or later but we only seem to notice it and complain when they come from Russia or Ukraine. Reading the threads about other makers and their failings ought to cure us but it doesn't seem to, does it?

Regards, David

 

[tunalegs]

I wouldn't call it worlds better just because the magnification is higher. Zorki-6's finder is the best to me among all the cameras listed above.

About Zorki-4:
the eye relief is literally zero. I wear eye glasses.

And when I actually stick my eyeball to the eyepiece and used peripheral vision to frame, I found the framing is much wider than the view of a 50mm lens. I compared it with digital cameras and found it more like 45mm. I like the frame to be tighter if not accurate, so you actually get what you see on the film.

I have glasses too. Haven't had this issue. I think the problem may be that you're trying to see the edges of the "frame" as defined by the rim around the front of the viewfinder. If you just plain look through it without trying to force your eye around, it's fine (that is let the eyepiece define the frame instead, it gives a sort of fuzzy tunnel vision feeling, but it is accurate in my experience). That and the viewfinder itself changed size several times during production, and I wouldn't know which version you've had. Both of the 4s I've used were early 60's production.

As for the 6, it felt a little too fragile/crude in my hands, and the VF/RF wasn't as nice as the 4's.

Hmmm, but the Zorki was bought second-hand wasn't it? And I suspect the previous owner didn't RTFM, don't you?

I could write a similar couple of posts about my experiences with Japanese cameras and sellers; mention the Fuji Tiara with the prime lens and I fume and curse the seller (also Japanese) and camera. Same goes for German cameras, just look at those threads about Leicas that fail. And I've a 35mm Minox and a Contax that might be excellent cameras if any one could repair them but they won't touch them...

The odd thing is that people are happy to pay a lot for a Leica and lens and get it/them repaired for hundreds but won't pay a fraction of that amount to sort out a FED, Zorki or Zenit.

I've had a FED I and a Leica II for years. I use them both and the FED eventually needed a service (blinds mainly) and the Leica is going back soon (shutter problems). They are both old cameras and time, usage and the previous owners have all affected then but I don't mind getting them repaired properly and paying for it because both cameras are worth it. When done they feel the same and behave the same.

Reading various threads I reckon the same parts fail too.

In some ways the Leica is better and in other ways the FED is better, but that generalisation applies to most cameras when compared. Or lenses if my Summars are compared with the FED f/2 50mm lens.

The trouble is, we think like accountants when we should be thinking like engineers, photographers and collectors. The fact is that all cameras fail sooner or later but we only seem to notice it and complain when they come from Russia or Ukraine. Reading the threads about other makers and their failings ought to cure us but it doesn't seem to, does it?

Regards, David

I'll state unequivocally that I'd take a Zorki 4 or Fed 3 over any LTM Leica any day. Sure the Leicas may have an edge quality wise, as regards fit and finish, but when it comes to actual use and making pictures - give me those soviets.

 

[css9450]

About Zorki-4:
the eye relief is literally zero. I wear eye glasses.

And when I actually stick my eyeball to the eyepiece and used peripheral vision to frame, I found the framing is much wider than the view of a 50mm lens. I compared it with digital cameras and found it more like 45mm. I like the frame to be tighter if not accurate, so you actually get what you see on the film.

Same experience here too. The diopter is great; best focusing patch I've ever used. But framing is more like a loose suggestion than anything accurate. I don't even bother using a 50 on mine; I usually shoot with a wider lens using a VF in the cold shoe. Someday I'll find a cheap 50mm VF for it!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I don't care about SLRs, don't know much.
All of your RF cameras needs service. It is absotelly normal, regular, common situation.
Even Leica needs to be serviced once in a while if in use.
Would you be able to drive old mechanical car without service? No. Old film RF cameras are exactly the same. FSU, MiG, DDR, doesn't matter

The problem with FSU is mental. You are paying 20 and service is 200. This is why I don't buy complicated FSU. FED-2 is superior to any FSU RF, because it has all what is really needed and simple to be serviced by myself. Lenses are not lemons. They need to be allignred and FSU RF lenses are simple and easy to do it and CLA.

 

[p.giannakis]

Hmmm, but the Zorki was bought second-hand wasn't it? And I suspect the previous owner didn't RTFM, don't you?

I could write a similar couple of posts about my experiences with Japanese cameras and sellers; mention the Fuji Tiara with the prime lens and I fume and curse the seller (also Japanese) and camera. Same goes for German cameras, just look at those threads about Leicas that fail. And I've a 35mm Minox and a Contax that might be excellent cameras if any one could repair them but they won't touch them...

The odd thing is that people are happy to pay a lot for a Leica and lens and get it/them repaired for hundreds but won't pay a fraction of that amount to sort out a FED, Zorki or Zenit.

I've had a FED I and a Leica II for years. I use them both and the FED eventually needed a service (blinds mainly) and the Leica is going back soon (shutter problems). They are both old cameras and time, usage and the previous owners have all affected then but I don't mind getting them repaired properly and paying for it because both cameras are worth it. When done they feel the same and behave the same.

Reading various threads I reckon the same parts fail too.

In some ways the Leica is better and in other ways the FED is better, but that generalisation applies to most cameras when compared. Or lenses if my Summars are compared with the FED f/2 50mm lens.

The trouble is, we think like accountants when we should be thinking like engineers, photographers and collectors. The fact is that all cameras fail sooner or later but we only seem to notice it and complain when they come from Russia or Ukraine. Reading the threads about other makers and their failings ought to cure us but it doesn't seem to, does it?

Regards, David

Dear David,

It is not uncommon that people's 'realities' don't match, but it does seem that there are some people here that share the same experiences with me.

I have had a number of Japanese cameras going through my hands, mostly Pentaxes and Minoltas from the 60's 70's - none of them broke down after 3-4 films. Maybe some Spotmatics and K1000 had dead lightmeters - I could live with that. Did their owners have them all serviced? - i am not so sure about it - maybe they did but i doubt. My Olympus OM-1 was bought from the original owner - never serviced and runs fine.

Yes, i do see your point, other cameras fail too. But the fact that almost none of the FSU cameras i had managed to survive the 5th film (some times not even half-way through that) is something that i find it to be consistent and disappointing.

Regards,
Pan

 

[ForestCap]

Dear David,


I have had a number of Japanese cameras going through my hands, mostly Pentaxes and Minoltas from the 60's 70's - none of them broke down after 3-4 films. Maybe some Spotmatics and K1000 had dead lightmeters - I could live with that. Did their owners have them all serviced? - i am not so sure about it - maybe they did but i doubt. My Olympus OM-1 was bought from the original owner - never serviced and runs fine.

Regards,
Pan

Off topic: I just became a Pentax owner today!

That's what I like about those Japanese cameras, it's very common to buy one that has not been serviced for decades but still run well. But we shouldn't ignore the fact that they have technically more advanced Leica style shutters, with less harsh requirement about lubrication (ref. needed).

It's not the same case with LTM Leica bodies AND FSU bodies. They are old and as primitive as each other, with Leica bodies being more refined in some ways, and they definitely need service in 21st century as a shooter.

 

[Whateverist]

One of my most reliable second-hand cameras is a Pentina FM. It was missing part of the rewind lever when I bought it but apart from that it's a workhorse.

It nearly offsets the mound of dead FED and Zorki cameras I've collected. Some were dodgy to start with, others had been cleaned and repaired but eventually disintegrated. It's not hard to see why: these were 50+ year old cameras built on the cheap and bought on the cheap which had lived a rough live; no amount of care can fix that.

My Leica is currently far more reliable and accurate, but that camera was babied and went through a CLA which would have bought me a whole range of FEDs - not really a fair comparison.

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

The best people to service FSU's are in the FSU, and less expensively too.
Buy your cameras fully serviced from a tech.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Buy your cameras fully serviced from a tech.

No frills comes with it. It must cost 20 or less and to be working...

Every camera I have purchased this way required CLA. German, Japanese were absolutelly no exclusion. Rollei, Minox, Vioghtlander, Yashica, all needed service.

 

[B-9]

Some here have and love using these cameras,

Personally I have a box of junk FEDs and Zorki's.

For 15-25$ a piece, might as well be disposable.

 

[Pentode]

My FSU cameras have mostly been okay. The Kiev IIa and Moskva V have been absolutely bomb-proof and one Zorki 6 has been reliable, although the fit and finish are a little uninspiring. The other Zorki 6 wasn't working at all when I bought it (for its lens) and I've been able to get it functional on the middle shutter speeds, but I don't think it will ever be 100% right. For $20, I really can't complain.

The other three cameras were bought from a reliable source (Fedka) and I really haven't had any issues. Perhaps I'm just lucky.

As far as lenses go, I have one Industar 22 that's not very good at all, but all the others have been quite nice.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I have bought Japanese cameras in the market for a few pounds because I wanted the lens; namely Olympus, Yashica, Nikon and Canon. Got home and found they were U/S but the lens was OK. So I was happy and scrapped or gave away the camera bodies.

Experience of every make I can think of is that they deteriorate slowly (my M2 did) and you don't notice. Now add in the so-called fall of the iron curtain and I reckon a lot of Soviet made film cameras were forgotten and left to rot as everyone scrambled to get a digital. That's not good for the cameras or the buyers but it seems to me that we know, or ought, to reckon this and allow for it.

Buy a Leica II or a FED from the mid to late 30's and get them both checked and repaired by one of the expects and you'll not really notice any difference except the price when buying and getting them repaired.

If we treated FED, Zorki and Zenit cameras like more expensive ones they'd behave like more expensive ones. Then we ought to charge high prices for them on the internet and people would be happy.

Regards, David