My First M - Choosing a Lens

[wlfotografiska]

Just got my first M body: A M3. I'm trying to work out which lens to pair with it.

I've spoken to some sellers and options are:

- 50mm f2.5 Summarit - boxed with hood (£600)
- 50mm f2 Summicron Rigid (£460)
- 50mm f2 Summicron Type 5 (£860)

I really like that the Summarit is a newer lens, has 6 bit encoding, a focusing tab and is small. But will I regret not getting the classic Summicron?

Other considerations:

- I suspect I'll get a digital M at some point.
- I shoot both color and b&w (mostly street but also portraits).
- I ruled out a Zeiss as I want a Leica for my first lens.
- My favourite lens I own is a 55mm f1.8 SMC Takumar because of the warm colour rendering and good contrast.

Thanks for your help!

 

[michaelwj]

Optics aside they are three different lenses ergonomically.
The summarit has a focus tab and short focus throw;
The v5 has no tab with a short throw and 0.7m close focus;
The rigid has no tab with a long throw and 1m close focus.

There's no wrong choice, just different choices.

 

[aizan]

i'd get the summarit-m for the smoother bokeh.

 

[bayernfan]

i'd personally go for one of the summicrons. the rigid for a classic rendering, and the v5 for modern. ergonomics are completely different between the two. the rigid has an infinity lock and a knurled ring.

 

[Chris101]

I bought a Summicron 50 less than a month ago. I had a choice of a type 5 and a type 4. I chose the type 4 because it was smaller and because it was made in Canada (my M4-P was also made in Canada.)

I do wish it had the focus ring as opposed to the focus tab (it's called a bear claw because it's about 500 grams of {delicious} carbohydrate - I mean because it looks like one). But the size and origin of the type 4 fit my camera well. Note: the optics of the type 4 and 5 are identical. The 5 has a focus ring and a built in hood, both of which are good. Typically they cost about $100 more than the smaller and lighter type 4 lenses.

 

[wlfotografiska]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. Having not shot a lot of rangefinders I do think I prefer short throw and the tab. I also like how the Summarit looks a lot more!

However, I guess my worry of buying this over a Summicron is that I won't get the classic "Leica look" and that I'll regret it being a quarter stop slower.

 

[wlfotografiska]

I bought a Summicron 50 less than a month ago. I had a choice of a type 5 and a type 4. I chose the type 4 because it was smaller and because it was made in Canada (my M4-P was also made in Canada.)

I do wish it had the focus ring as opposed to the focus tab (it's called a bear claw because it's about 500 grams of {delicious} carbohydrate - I mean because it looks like one). But the size and origin of the type 4 fit my camera well. Note: the optics of the type 4 and 5 are identical. The 5 has a focus ring and a built in hood, both of which are good. Typically they cost about $100 more than the smaller and lighter type 4 lenses.

I think a type 4 Summicron might be perfect but I can't find one for sale in the U.K. right now.

 

[Chris101]

According to the internet the type 4 and 5 are the same. Types 1 and 2 are similar, but type 3 sacrifices acuity for contrast. Look at 35mm lenses as well. They show more environment, but are similar to 50mm lenses in their look.

My favorite 35mm lens is a Voigtlander Ultron.

 

[wlfotografiska]

According to the internet the type 4 and 5 are the same. Types 1 and 2 are similar, but type 3 sacrifices acuity for contrast. Look at 35mm lenses as well. They show more environment, but are similar to 50mm lenses in their look.

My favorite 35mm lens is a Voigtlander Ultron.

Unfortunately the M3 doesn't have frame lines for 35mm lenses.

 

[Chris101]

I know this. An M3 is not the ideal camera for this focal length, unless you buy goggles lenses for it. None-the-less, the camera still works with any M lens, so an auxiliary finder lens works fine, or just guess.

 

[Contarama]

I own nothing Leica but from what I have observed over the years is that Leica folks tend to own several 50mm lenses. Anyone want to argue with me about that? 🙂

My advice...decide which one you will buy first!

Zeiss...yep some day you'll have one or more of those too. haha

This is the reason for me not having a Leica but my Nikon collection is near completion and well you know...

 

[Scrambler]

As to regret: yes you will regret your choice. Every road walked down means other roads not walked.

The 1.8 Takumar is a 1960s lens. If that works for you now then you don't need a new (vs older) lens, and the coding is the least of your worries.

All the lenses you mention are plenty good enough. 1 stop less than the Tak? But no mirror so hand hold a stop slower to compensate.

FWIW my only Leica lens is a Summitar and even that is a good lens. Oddly I sometimes think the pre-1970s lenses hold up well with digital conversion due to lower contrast: easy to get it back and better to make something blacker than try to reduce contrast in digital.

 

[michaelwj]

I think a type 4 Summicron might be perfect but I can't find one for sale in the U.K. right now.

Type 3 is also great; mid focal throw, smallish, no tab. You basically can't go wrong with a summicron, which is why my first post didn't mention optical qualities - they're all excellent.
There'll be plenty of v4's in time. You only need wait a week or two.

 

[Richard G]

That Summarit is very good and very small. I'd get that. I have the type 4 Summicron and love that. I don't like the modern built in hoods, fiddly, delicate and often chipped at the rim. I've bumped my plastic Summicron hood so many times and it is still cosmetically perfect.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

As I see it, (A) you can choose a lens for the M3 that would have been the lens on it when bought new as a body and lens or (B) you choose the newest you can afford for different reasons.

As for coding, with the M9 I use a variety of lenses (ancient and modern) and not one of them is coded or will be. I dislike getting "0mm" in the EXIF and have manually set the lens used in the menu to the nearest (not very near in many cases).

Regards, David

 

[wlfotografiska]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm gonna take the Summarit!

 

[wlfotografiska]

Any tips on what I should look for on a used Summarit?

 

[Ko.Fe.]

50 2.5 is the best ergonomically (IMO) and has aspherical element (they never advertised it, but it is here).

If Summarit-M wasn't dropped it should be trouble free. Check how aperture ring clicks, it should be very light and same for focus ring, it must be soft as silk. Aperture ring might have little play, it is normal. But no wobble elsewhere. Hood must crew in without force and seat on tight.

Summaron 35 3.5 (not expensive) and 2.8 (expensive) for M3 with goggles for 50mm frameline are available.

 

[Contarama]

And what is that 3.5 Elmar (?) one you guys are always talking about? That is the one I think I will chase first when I get to my Leica days.

 

[Pioneer]

The 50/3.5 Elmar was the original Leica lens and was continually produced right into the M3 era. The LTM (screwmount) version is by far the most common but there is a bayonet mount version as well.

Most Elmar 50s are relatively sharp but tend to produce lower contrast photographs. I actually like this since I find it easier to add contrast where I want it during post editing. If you pixel peep then an Elmar will not appear to be as sharp as other lenses but when you print you will have a hard time convincing yourself that it isn't just as sharp as other lenses. It is reasonably well color corrected so it handles color slide and negative films very nicely. Of course the older versions are not coated so may have a slightly larger tendency to flare, but I can't say it has ever been a huge problem for me with film. I think it may be slightly more obvious on digital. The newer lenses will probably be in better physical shape, and they are coated, but they should all be pretty decent as long as someone hasn't purposely scratched up the front objective.

EDIT - To me the Elmar 50 lenses are as nice as any of Leica's lens offerings in 50mm right up through the beginning of the M style cameras. The only difference is the contrast but even that is much improved with the Leica 50/2.8 and the newer Leica M 50/2.8 that was updated and offered on the M6 for a period. Again, most people are looking for something faster than f3.5 or f2.8 so they completely ignore the Elmar 50. I think they are missing out on a great lens.