k__43
Registered Film User
badly needs scratching ..
I love the lens, but the one thing that sucks is the 0.9m close focus. I'd love to get a bit closer. Don't start telling me because of the sonnar focus shift it's impossible to focus n stuff - I don't want perfection there.
I see 3 choices:
- selling it and get a V3 summicron and loose a stop (I like the character of the v3 as far as I could tell from pics in the net)
- getting a Contax Sonnar f/1.5 and a Amadeo-Adapter (I actually already bought the lens) and loose the nice coating of the ZM.
- finding a close focus mod. is this done yet?
Please fill my head with more thoughts about my 1st world problem. I'm looking for input
I love the lens, but the one thing that sucks is the 0.9m close focus. I'd love to get a bit closer. Don't start telling me because of the sonnar focus shift it's impossible to focus n stuff - I don't want perfection there.
I see 3 choices:
- selling it and get a V3 summicron and loose a stop (I like the character of the v3 as far as I could tell from pics in the net)
- getting a Contax Sonnar f/1.5 and a Amadeo-Adapter (I actually already bought the lens) and loose the nice coating of the ZM.
- finding a close focus mod. is this done yet?
Please fill my head with more thoughts about my 1st world problem. I'm looking for input
lawrence
Veteran
If you want the character of a Sonnar there's no point in considering a Summicron; the two 'Crons that I owned looked very different to a Sonnar. This is hardly surprising given that they are a different optical formula i.e. modified Gauss.
If you're looking for a different 50mm I'd like to recommend that you also consider one of these:
So far they are my favourites. Good luck!
If you're looking for a different 50mm I'd like to recommend that you also consider one of these:
- 2.5 Color-Skopar
- 2.0 Biogon ZM
- 1.5 Nokton
So far they are my favourites. Good luck!
mfogiel
Veteran
The only thing that can compete with C Sonnar in terms of rendering is the Summilux 50 pre asph. It is slightly less sharp, but more even, and focus shift on film is negligible. The last version with the sliding hood has the min focusing distance of 0.7m.
20131702 by marek fogiel, on Flickr
20131702 by marek fogiel, on Flickr
lam
Well-known
I actually just sold a Nikkor-S.C. 5cm f1.4 LTM, which is based on the Zeiss Sonnar. It is .9m but has a 'close focus' function in that there is a ball click after .9m you lose RF coupling but it allows you to get down to .4m which is 1.5ft.. (crazy yes)..
Shame I just found this thread. You can find them pretty decent price though, definitely something to check out.
Shame I just found this thread. You can find them pretty decent price though, definitely something to check out.
f16sunshine
Moderator
The nikkor is a gorgeous lens but quite glowy wide open (the 2 I've tried).
I like the glow but it's definitely not the sonnar C which is sharp and already pretty high contrast at wide open compared to the Nikkor.
I also owed the V3 summilux until it was stolen (2011).
I replaced it with the Nokton f1.5/50mm. It may be the best bet.
There was no real world difference in rendering between these two lenses. The are both larger than the C sonnar though.
That V3 Summilux is hard to find and becoming over priced when one considers other options available (very similarly performing options like the Nokton).
Nokton and Summilux are DG schemes. Neither will have that Sonnar Bokeh if that is important to you?
FrankS
Registered User
Crop. .
kxl
Social Documentary
Shoot a mirrorless digital body and get a close focusing adapter -- problem solved! 
ferider
Veteran
The Nikkor glow is gone by f1.6 and up. And the Nikkor can be modified to focus coupled down to 0.7m:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56962
But even the smoother 5005 Nikkor version has bokeh that is a bit harsher than the C-Sonnar. Same as the Zeiss Sonnar from the 50s, the Canon 50/1.5, etc. I never thought classic Sonnar bokeh was particularly smooth myself.
Two representative 5005 shots:
And the pre-asph Summilux is not very smooth either. It's a typical Mandler optimization for minimum coma and high infinity resolution. And it shifts very noticably on digital. Prices for both E43 and E46 versions have gone through the roof, recently.
The smoothest 50 that I own is the 50/1.5 VM Nokton:
Roland.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56962
But even the smoother 5005 Nikkor version has bokeh that is a bit harsher than the C-Sonnar. Same as the Zeiss Sonnar from the 50s, the Canon 50/1.5, etc. I never thought classic Sonnar bokeh was particularly smooth myself.
Two representative 5005 shots:
And the pre-asph Summilux is not very smooth either. It's a typical Mandler optimization for minimum coma and high infinity resolution. And it shifts very noticably on digital. Prices for both E43 and E46 versions have gone through the roof, recently.
The smoothest 50 that I own is the 50/1.5 VM Nokton:
Roland.
michaelwj
----------------
My 2c.
I wanted the sonnar, then for the 0.7m got the v3 cron. It's nice but it's no sonnar.
For some reason, I find 0.9m not really restricting, but 1.0m I find way to long (on a 35mm lens - never used a 1.0m 50mm). I rarely use 0.7m on a 50, it is almost too close to frame accurately enough for the magnification.
Get the sonnar.
I wanted the sonnar, then for the 0.7m got the v3 cron. It's nice but it's no sonnar.
For some reason, I find 0.9m not really restricting, but 1.0m I find way to long (on a 35mm lens - never used a 1.0m 50mm). I rarely use 0.7m on a 50, it is almost too close to frame accurately enough for the magnification.
Get the sonnar.
k__43
Registered Film User
Thank you guys for your input.
I know the V3 cron has no comparable character to the sonnar but it has character none the less.
The Nokton - I forgot the Nokton there for a minute. I always thought it's a boring lens but your shot Helen has something
The new Nokton is indeed 0.7m close focusing and goes for under 600€ for new and open box.
I just scanned some tests with a Contax uncoated Sonnar which is definitely less sharp but looks as awesome wide open for portraits. It flares like mad tho. I think I will sell it and not buy the adapter for it .. the ZM is just way better
The missing stop of the V3 cron might ruin the fun on the long run.
I'm no 50mm man so more than one is unnecessary (well I've always the J-8 in the drawer)
the v3 Lux is too expensive .. saving some money would have been a afterthought in this
I might stick with the sonnar-c a little longer (again). A mod would be the ideal solution I guess.
I know the V3 cron has no comparable character to the sonnar but it has character none the less.
The Nokton - I forgot the Nokton there for a minute. I always thought it's a boring lens but your shot Helen has something
The new Nokton is indeed 0.7m close focusing and goes for under 600€ for new and open box.
I just scanned some tests with a Contax uncoated Sonnar which is definitely less sharp but looks as awesome wide open for portraits. It flares like mad tho. I think I will sell it and not buy the adapter for it .. the ZM is just way better
The missing stop of the V3 cron might ruin the fun on the long run.
I'm no 50mm man so more than one is unnecessary (well I've always the J-8 in the drawer)
the v3 Lux is too expensive .. saving some money would have been a afterthought in this
I might stick with the sonnar-c a little longer (again). A mod would be the ideal solution I guess.
k__43
Registered Film User
Cropping doesn't get you further away from people on your table in a bar. You have the get up a draw all the attention on you - that basically is my problem with the distance.
santela
Established
Okay this is probably not gonna help you since all your listed cameras are film, but if you are not completely opposed to digital, you could get a Sony A7 and an adapter that'll allow you to focus as close as 0.5m.
Sorry if it doesn't help but that's the best I got.
Sorry if it doesn't help but that's the best I got.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The minimum focusing distance of the Sonnar is 0.9 as apposed the best 50 which seems to be about 0.7
You'd sacrifice the nicest 50mm RF lens on the market for 0.2 of a meter difference?
You'd sacrifice the nicest 50mm RF lens on the market for 0.2 of a meter difference?
brbo
Well-known
I did just that. The alternative (late West-Germany Sonnar 1,5/50 + adapter) cost me less than half what I got for my C Sonnar.
Bonus: it doesn't wobble. Ever!
C Sonnar has better ergonomics, though.
k__43
Registered Film User
Nice to hear you are happy with that combo.
I tried a pre-war uncoated f/1.5 on a contax III and I'm not really really happy - it works for what I'd want to do with it mainly but it's not sharp enough for my taste and flares like a m&$%F&%A
Richard G
Veteran
Agree completely with Keith. In your lifetime and late in the life of new products in 35mm film, Zeiss brought out a rangefinder film camera and then a whole lot of M mount lenses which included the 50 C Sonnar. And you have one. And you've used it. And you want more? Keep away from windows and high places: the Lord may strike you down. The C Sonnar is my only must have lens. It makes my heart skip a beat, even at f5.6.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
And lets not forget it has the approval of our esteemed RF scribe Roger Hicks. He rates it as his favourite 50mm M mount lens.
k__43
Registered Film User
Hey I said I have an itch with that problem, no pain - I'll probably stick to it as it seems for now. I love it as much as most people, but leaning weirdly on your chair or standing up from the table at all is exactly what you often have to do for those 20cm, i.e. making notice of your photo taking intention while you actually just wanted to take an unnoticed snap.
brbo
Well-known
Get a dedicated 50mm Amedeo adapter and a $5 Jupiter-8 in Kiev/Contax mount. You get 0.7m, all the Sonnar character at f2, don't have to worry about compensating for focus shift wide open (there is focus shift as you stop down!) and J-8 is almost as good wide open as other f1.5 Sonnars @f2.
k__43
Registered Film User
Ha, this opens another possibility that was there all along - I only haven't thought about it. I will mod my LTM J8! bummer about that extra stop tho and: no, I'm not going down that J3 route as I'm not patient enough to shim one.