jvr
Well-known
Ok, so I switched to the M8, my Epson will be on classifieds very, very soon... 
I postponed this posting, because I would like to have some time with the M8, so that I had something to say. Now, it's been a couple of months, more than one thousand pictures went by and I made up my mind.
It all started when I bought a 28 Summicron ASPH from Lu. Transaction was first-rate and we exchanged several mails. Lu told me he also had an M8 to sell, price was ok and I really enjoyed dealing with him on the 28 'Cron, so I decided to take the plunge. Again, Lu was fantastic and the M8 arrived very promptly, separated in two different packages (so that ports were lower...).
First impressions were very positive: the M8 feels very solid, very compact. A bit larger than my M3 but that's to expect. Handling is first rate and, although I physically miss the "advance lever" on the Epson, auto winding allows you faster and more accurante shooting. That is particularly useful when photographing children, when trying to capture "the" expression. With the Luigi half-case I bought (lovely work and very nice deal, Luigi sold me a half-case for the Epson, which I never used and allowed me to send it back and trade it for a M8 half-case! Thanks Luigi!), the M8 holds perfect in my hand.
Moreover, being able to go from 24 to 90 without external viewfinders is a big, big bonus. And, since I like it wide, the 1.3 crop factor helps.
Image quality is definitely better (for me) than the Epson. The most notable things are:
1) No (or almost no) vignetting with wide-angles. And quality in the corners is better than the Epson, again when going wide, although the Epson crops more of the image circle. I have to say, I'm impressed. With some lenses, the Epson shows a bit of "shifting" images in the corners (easy to see on the Ultron, for instance). The M8 is better in this regard.
2) More accurate metering. My Epson always underexposes, the Leica is spot on. Ok, it's easy to dial +1 on the Epson but the Leica exposure/metering better "fills" all the range of the sensor. In the beggining, I felt the Leica overexposed but the truth is, it exposes in order to get highlights just below the point of burning-out. You don't get a lot of leeway in this regard, but shadow detail is fantastic. I know it's centered weighted, but sometimes it almost feels like matrix...
3) Focusing is impeccable. Although my Epson focuses ok (after a full service!), the Leica is even better. Every once in a while, I would get several "almost focused" pictures with the Epson. Nothing that would show up on even a big print, but pixel-peeping reveals it. With the M8, no more stress on this subject. All my lenses focus perfectly, even the Jupiter-9 I was never able to focus correctly on the Epson.
4) Tonality. The Epson is no slouch but the Leica (maybe because of higher pixel count, maybe because sensor technology advanced in the meanwhile), gives a wonderful tonality range. In B&W, it's the best I've ever laid eyes on. It almost feels a sin to print the images: on a good, well-calibradted monitor, images have a depth that's breathtaking. In this respect, I always felt the Epson and the Nikon D100 were the best I had in digital (better than the D80, I don't know why), especially when used in RAW. But they didn't measure up with a MF negative. The M8 is better than the Epson, no doubt, and it almost feels pointless to carry big cameras around. The Epson files, even after some work, now seem a bit "flat", when compared with the M8.
Not everything is rosy, unfortunately. My major gripe has to do with the shutter. Ok, it's nice to have 1/8000 when you want to use a fast lens in the sun but the shutter is noisier than I would like (the Luigi case helps to tone it down) and the shutter curtains are so fast the camera shakes a little bit. It's not SLR-miror-shake territory but I have to be careful in the 1/15 to 1/30 range. Certainly more shake than the Epson, the M3 or the Hexar AF.
Anyway, the noise is not metallic (and the Epson's is), although it makes people turn around in very quiet environments (churches, for instance). I'll live with it. In spite of what I read, shutter button was easy to adjust to, even with the "two-stop" feel. I moved my chrome, big SoftRelese from my M3 to the M8 and I got used to it very quickçy. Not as smooth as the M3 but, hey, maybe after 50 years it will become that way...
All in all, going with the M8 is a definite upgrade on the Epson. Image quality is better, confort level is up a few notches (almost no external VFs!!!) and the camera feels very workmanlike. It's not a toy, that's for sure.
Nevertheless, the Epson's probably a better value for money and a great buy. If money was an issue, I would go with the Epson. That is, while spare parts last...
Again, thanks to Lu for a very pleasant transaction!
I postponed this posting, because I would like to have some time with the M8, so that I had something to say. Now, it's been a couple of months, more than one thousand pictures went by and I made up my mind.
It all started when I bought a 28 Summicron ASPH from Lu. Transaction was first-rate and we exchanged several mails. Lu told me he also had an M8 to sell, price was ok and I really enjoyed dealing with him on the 28 'Cron, so I decided to take the plunge. Again, Lu was fantastic and the M8 arrived very promptly, separated in two different packages (so that ports were lower...
).First impressions were very positive: the M8 feels very solid, very compact. A bit larger than my M3 but that's to expect. Handling is first rate and, although I physically miss the "advance lever" on the Epson, auto winding allows you faster and more accurante shooting. That is particularly useful when photographing children, when trying to capture "the" expression. With the Luigi half-case I bought (lovely work and very nice deal, Luigi sold me a half-case for the Epson, which I never used and allowed me to send it back and trade it for a M8 half-case! Thanks Luigi!), the M8 holds perfect in my hand.
Moreover, being able to go from 24 to 90 without external viewfinders is a big, big bonus. And, since I like it wide, the 1.3 crop factor helps.
Image quality is definitely better (for me) than the Epson. The most notable things are:
1) No (or almost no) vignetting with wide-angles. And quality in the corners is better than the Epson, again when going wide, although the Epson crops more of the image circle. I have to say, I'm impressed. With some lenses, the Epson shows a bit of "shifting" images in the corners (easy to see on the Ultron, for instance). The M8 is better in this regard.
2) More accurate metering. My Epson always underexposes, the Leica is spot on. Ok, it's easy to dial +1 on the Epson but the Leica exposure/metering better "fills" all the range of the sensor. In the beggining, I felt the Leica overexposed but the truth is, it exposes in order to get highlights just below the point of burning-out. You don't get a lot of leeway in this regard, but shadow detail is fantastic. I know it's centered weighted, but sometimes it almost feels like matrix...
3) Focusing is impeccable. Although my Epson focuses ok (after a full service!), the Leica is even better. Every once in a while, I would get several "almost focused" pictures with the Epson. Nothing that would show up on even a big print, but pixel-peeping reveals it. With the M8, no more stress on this subject. All my lenses focus perfectly, even the Jupiter-9 I was never able to focus correctly on the Epson.
4) Tonality. The Epson is no slouch but the Leica (maybe because of higher pixel count, maybe because sensor technology advanced in the meanwhile), gives a wonderful tonality range. In B&W, it's the best I've ever laid eyes on. It almost feels a sin to print the images: on a good, well-calibradted monitor, images have a depth that's breathtaking. In this respect, I always felt the Epson and the Nikon D100 were the best I had in digital (better than the D80, I don't know why), especially when used in RAW. But they didn't measure up with a MF negative. The M8 is better than the Epson, no doubt, and it almost feels pointless to carry big cameras around. The Epson files, even after some work, now seem a bit "flat", when compared with the M8.
Not everything is rosy, unfortunately. My major gripe has to do with the shutter. Ok, it's nice to have 1/8000 when you want to use a fast lens in the sun but the shutter is noisier than I would like (the Luigi case helps to tone it down) and the shutter curtains are so fast the camera shakes a little bit. It's not SLR-miror-shake territory but I have to be careful in the 1/15 to 1/30 range. Certainly more shake than the Epson, the M3 or the Hexar AF.
Anyway, the noise is not metallic (and the Epson's is), although it makes people turn around in very quiet environments (churches, for instance). I'll live with it. In spite of what I read, shutter button was easy to adjust to, even with the "two-stop" feel. I moved my chrome, big SoftRelese from my M3 to the M8 and I got used to it very quickçy. Not as smooth as the M3 but, hey, maybe after 50 years it will become that way...
All in all, going with the M8 is a definite upgrade on the Epson. Image quality is better, confort level is up a few notches (almost no external VFs!!!) and the camera feels very workmanlike. It's not a toy, that's for sure.
Nevertheless, the Epson's probably a better value for money and a great buy. If money was an issue, I would go with the Epson. That is, while spare parts last...
Again, thanks to Lu for a very pleasant transaction!
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rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
ride452 said:
I would buy from a well known, reputable dealer. That will simplify any issues with warranty and maintenance down the line, as well as supporting the stores that are actually good at what they do.
In the US, I'd look at Tony Rose at Popflash, or PhotoVillage, or even some of the big photo shops like B&H or Calumet.
jvr
Well-known
ride452 said:
Regarding the M8, it keeps growing on me, I don't miss my Epson anymore (so I really decided to sell it!). But I reckon it's an expensive camera, so I hope your father really likes it!
Regarding buying, I would prefer from a know dealer or people you know. Although I hadn't any problem with the M8 until now, it's confortable to know I won't be in trouble if I have one. Moreover, buying the M8 entitles you to 2 IR filters. Althgouh not mandatory, they really help colour rendering in very IR-full light (the biggest difference for me is under incandescent light).
I bought mine from a RFF member that I alredy knew (and liked!) from previous transactions (Luigi Vaccaro - Lu) and got everything I was entitled to and then some more (again, nice deal, Lu!!). But if I hadn't that good previous experience, i would have gone with a "normal", preferably local, dealer. The M8 is a very complex think, from a mechanical, electronic and software POV, so I would not be surprised to get some trouble down the line (although Leica products tend to be well-designed and maintained).
Regards!
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ampguy
Veteran
how much for the rd1?
Kim Coxon
Moderator
Please keep FS discussions in PMs or the classifieds.
Kim
Kim
ampguy said:
crespowu
Newbie
I prefer M8 to rd1.
jvr
Well-known
Kim Coxon said:Please keep FS discussions in PMs or the classifieds.
Kim
I promise I'll put it in Classifieds when I sell: it's just I didn't have the guts, yet...
buckpago
Established
jvr said:I promise I'll put it in Classifieds when I sell: it's just I didn't have the guts, yet...
oh cmon, if you are going to post it, then do it, if you think that youre not going to use it any more its better to sell or give it to someone will use it, cameras are imaging tools, if tools are not being use, its worthless.
peace yo!
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