ymc226
Well-known
Don't have a digital camera yet but would like a digital camera with macro capability and need information regarding the availability of macro lenses between 2 systems, Leica M9 and Nikon D3.
The macro I have used have been with extension tubes and Hasselblad 203FE/205FCC and various extension tubes with 110FE, 80 CFE and 150 FE.
I am familiar with both the Leica M and Nikon F series (have Leica M7, MP, M2, M3, M4 with various lens and F6, F5, F4S, F3 with Nikkor lenses but not macro).
Which system would be easier to work with and would have more lenses to choose from?
The macro I have used have been with extension tubes and Hasselblad 203FE/205FCC and various extension tubes with 110FE, 80 CFE and 150 FE.
I am familiar with both the Leica M and Nikon F series (have Leica M7, MP, M2, M3, M4 with various lens and F6, F5, F4S, F3 with Nikkor lenses but not macro).
Which system would be easier to work with and would have more lenses to choose from?
kxl
Social Documentary
Don't know how many M-mount macros there are, but off the top of my head, I can name quite a few macro lenses for the F mount in various FL's -- 55, 60, 90, 100, 105, 150, 200 -- from Nikon, Sigma, Vivitar, Kiron, etc...
hteasley
Pupil
You can't really do effective macro with rangefinders. It's one of the aspects of the design. This is received wisdom, of course, and someone may very well point to some rangefinder macro photographs to prove me wrong, but this is what is everywhere in the literature about rangefinders. I don't know if there's a way to overcome it, beyond using an SLR macro lens with an adapter, and chimping the results as you focus by trial and error.
But on the macro front, I recently purchased the Haoda macro reversing ring for my old Canon Digital Rebel XT. $15 for an adapter that allows you to mount lenses backwards on the SLR, for some super-macro work with cheap non-macro lenses. Some samples here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97501
So that's a cheap way to get some pretty dramatic macro shots. Harder to deal with than actual macro lenses, but it's fun.
But on the macro front, I recently purchased the Haoda macro reversing ring for my old Canon Digital Rebel XT. $15 for an adapter that allows you to mount lenses backwards on the SLR, for some super-macro work with cheap non-macro lenses. Some samples here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97501
So that's a cheap way to get some pretty dramatic macro shots. Harder to deal with than actual macro lenses, but it's fun.
gekopaca
French photographer
You could buy a Panasonic G-serie camera (body only), then you could :
1) use all your M-mount and Nikon lenses (with appropriate adaptors)
2) transform each of your lens in macro lens with a MFT extension tube - you can also buy a specific macro MFT lens made by Leica, or a special adaptor to reverse the original kit lens and transform it for macro use.
3) if the camera you choose would be the GH1 you would have a video killer camera too (currently very inexpensive because the GH2 is releasing, and you can easily hack the GH1 firmware to increase its video habilities and transform it in prosumer video camera).
1) use all your M-mount and Nikon lenses (with appropriate adaptors)
2) transform each of your lens in macro lens with a MFT extension tube - you can also buy a specific macro MFT lens made by Leica, or a special adaptor to reverse the original kit lens and transform it for macro use.
3) if the camera you choose would be the GH1 you would have a video killer camera too (currently very inexpensive because the GH2 is releasing, and you can easily hack the GH1 firmware to increase its video habilities and transform it in prosumer video camera).
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There is a 90mm Macro Elmar for the Leica, but as long as you have the Nikon system too, that would be the better way to go for macro shooting, IMO.
robklurfield
eclipse
One can do macro on M's using a Visoflex. See elsewhere on RFF for compatibility issues with Visoflex on M8/M9 (search "Visoflex" in the M8/M9 forum; you find several threads with loads of details. jaapv, who moderates the forum, is quite happy with his Visoflex on his M8 and M9, and he kindly explained to me what I needed). It will work, but you have to get the right Viso kit for it to fit. It's not elegant, but it can be done fairly cheaply. I've used Viso II mirrorbox and Viso III prism on my M8 with a 90/4 Elmar head and either a focus mount adapter or a bellows. The whole thing probably cost me around $300. If this is not something you'll be doing everyday, it works pretty well. If macro is going to be something you do often, you'd probably be happier with a DSLR-based solution.
A sample: M8, Visoflex II/III combo with 90/4 Elmar, OUAGO focus mount and an extension tube...
A sample: M8, Visoflex II/III combo with 90/4 Elmar, OUAGO focus mount and an extension tube...
robklurfield
eclipse
This shot with the same setup is of snuff tin that measures about 1.5 inches square. The shot is not cropped (and, let's be honest, not actually all that well focused).
robklurfield
eclipse
same box, same gear doing the shooting...
robklurfield
eclipse
for size comparison....
robklurfield
eclipse
This shot is pretty grainy mostly because it was shot at 1250 ISO. This is NOT cropped. Same jug as in the shot above.
Ronald M
Veteran
USE a visoflex. 65 3.5 elmar will go from infinity to 1:1. 90 2.8. 90 4.0. all 135`s lens heads work well. 50 and shorter will work for extreme close up, but not focus to infinity.
The short focal Zeiss Luminars are unbeatable for for extreme close work. USE bellows and optical units or short mount in place of the longer RF mount.
These all go on a digi Nikon like a D40 or D3 including Leica bellows with Camera Quest Leica to Nikon adapter.
Nikon made 55 3.5 55 2.8 60 2.8 105 4.0 105 2.8 for SLR series. Typical Nikon glass. Get AI, AiS or modified to Ai to use on a D200, D300, or D700/D3 full frame. They work in A or M mode. S & P will not work
D40 D60 D3100 will mount but not meter with Ai Glass or original non Ai lenses. Diaphragm will work, so you use it as a non metered body. Non Ai lenses will damage the metering on Pro bodies, 100,200,300 700, D3.
The short focal Zeiss Luminars are unbeatable for for extreme close work. USE bellows and optical units or short mount in place of the longer RF mount.
These all go on a digi Nikon like a D40 or D3 including Leica bellows with Camera Quest Leica to Nikon adapter.
Nikon made 55 3.5 55 2.8 60 2.8 105 4.0 105 2.8 for SLR series. Typical Nikon glass. Get AI, AiS or modified to Ai to use on a D200, D300, or D700/D3 full frame. They work in A or M mode. S & P will not work
D40 D60 D3100 will mount but not meter with Ai Glass or original non Ai lenses. Diaphragm will work, so you use it as a non metered body. Non Ai lenses will damage the metering on Pro bodies, 100,200,300 700, D3.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
For extreme close-up: use and LTM adapter on your Nikon. Best of both worlds! 
I have a Leica Thread Mount adapter for my Nikon F mount cameras. The original is rare, a Nikon L-F adapter. Used mainly for bellows work with enlarger lenses.
If you plan on doing a lot of Macro work, the SLR is far more practical than the M-Mount camera with Visoflex. The latter basically makes the M8/M9 into a clunky SLR. And- the Viso-Flex mechanism is intended for long lens work, not macro work. It adds extension to the lens, making it difficult to work with lenses below 90mm or so. On the latter, the idea was to unscrew the optics module from the focus mount and use it on a bellows. Not many moern Leica mount lenses permit that anymore.
If you plan on doing a lot of Macro work, the SLR is far more practical than the M-Mount camera with Visoflex. The latter basically makes the M8/M9 into a clunky SLR. And- the Viso-Flex mechanism is intended for long lens work, not macro work. It adds extension to the lens, making it difficult to work with lenses below 90mm or so. On the latter, the idea was to unscrew the optics module from the focus mount and use it on a bellows. Not many moern Leica mount lenses permit that anymore.
ottluuk
the indecisive eternity
For the more extreme magnification ratios, forget about mucking around with Visoflex etc. You can use the lens heads on any SLR-fit bellows with a bit of searching for adapters, I think, but I would not bother.
For up to 1x magnification (covers 24x36 subject area in case of full frame digital - enough for most applications), just use any modern macro lens (they are all sharp and well-corrected) on any new DSLR.
You'll want Live View capability for critical focussing and good options for off-camera TTL flash. The best combination is Live view with electronic first curtain shutter - Canons from 40D onwards have this option, don't know about other systems. This means that you can use 10x magnification on screen to focus (in studio, you could feed the live view image into your computer monitor, even) and then take a shot with zero mechanical vibration.
100mm macros are usually considered to be the most versatile type, but 180 or 200mm is the way to go if you want to shoot critters or get uniformly blurred backgrounds.
By adding extension tubes and/or teleconverters, you can push the usable limit of normal macro lenses to about 2x life size magnification.
If you regularly need to work with subjects only a few millimeters long, just buy the specialized Canon MP-E 65mm lens, a modern upper-end Canon DSLR, the MT-24 twin flash and be done with it. In it's range, 1-5x life size, nothing comes close in usability. Seriously.
For magnifications of 5-15x life size you are looking at either a bellows plus a specialized short focal macro lens (available in Canon FD and Olympus OM systems and by Zeiss etc.) or using unsightly contraptions with reversed lenses.
Still onwards, we enter the domain of microscope adapters...
For up to 1x magnification (covers 24x36 subject area in case of full frame digital - enough for most applications), just use any modern macro lens (they are all sharp and well-corrected) on any new DSLR.
You'll want Live View capability for critical focussing and good options for off-camera TTL flash. The best combination is Live view with electronic first curtain shutter - Canons from 40D onwards have this option, don't know about other systems. This means that you can use 10x magnification on screen to focus (in studio, you could feed the live view image into your computer monitor, even) and then take a shot with zero mechanical vibration.
100mm macros are usually considered to be the most versatile type, but 180 or 200mm is the way to go if you want to shoot critters or get uniformly blurred backgrounds.
By adding extension tubes and/or teleconverters, you can push the usable limit of normal macro lenses to about 2x life size magnification.
If you regularly need to work with subjects only a few millimeters long, just buy the specialized Canon MP-E 65mm lens, a modern upper-end Canon DSLR, the MT-24 twin flash and be done with it. In it's range, 1-5x life size, nothing comes close in usability. Seriously.
For magnifications of 5-15x life size you are looking at either a bellows plus a specialized short focal macro lens (available in Canon FD and Olympus OM systems and by Zeiss etc.) or using unsightly contraptions with reversed lenses.
Still onwards, we enter the domain of microscope adapters...
ottluuk
the indecisive eternity
These are all made with Canon 40D and EF 50/2.5 macro (very sharp, has exceptional field flatness but only goes to 0.5x life size on its own). For the first two I added a 12mm extension tube plus the EF 1.4x teleconverter, probably just the extension tube on the last one. An off-camera E-TTL flash was used on all three. All were shot in field conditions.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
You would have far more macro lenses available in nikon mount and doing macro would be much easier using a D3 than any M mount camera that I have used.
Bob
Bob
1ScrewLoose
Member
I love the Visoflex for macro work but it's not easy. That's probably why I love it. Macro isn't a lot of what I do and when I do it, I can afford the time to fuss and fiddle. If macro were really an important part of my workload, and I needed to work quickly and efficiently... then I'd probably use a dedicated SLR system.
In Nikon Mount- I have the 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkor; 55/2.8 Micro-Nikkor; 60/2.8 AF-Micro-Nikkor; 105/2.8 AF-Micro-Nikkor; 200/4 Af-Micro-Nikkor; and 70~180 Micro-Nikkor-Zoom.
Most of the time, I end up using the 60/2.8 with an SB-29 flash for macro work. A macro-flash makes life easier.
Most of the time, I end up using the 60/2.8 with an SB-29 flash for macro work. A macro-flash makes life easier.
robklurfield
eclipse
couldn't find this image the other day. M8, Visoflex II with Viso III mirror box, 90/4 elmar lens head, probably a OUAGO focus mount. shot is of the elmar focus mount. no crop. no post-processing. guessing this was shot wide open at 1/16 sec with a desk lamp for illumination. probably hand-held, too.
robklurfield
eclipse
top of an M2 shot with same setup as above.
