New IVsb2 -- to trigger wind or not?

[Spicy]

Hey all. Ended up succumbing to lust of the adjustable-mag finders of the earlier bottom-load Canon LTMs bodies. Got one off evilBay and it arrived a little while ago. Haven't had a chance to finish the test-roll yet as the weather's been hot/rainy, but there's film in the camera. Cosmetically it's in good shape, finder as well; 1/15 and 1/8th are slow and sticky, and anything slower gets stuck. A CLA is in order in the future, but for the time being, the slow speeds shouldn't be too hard to avoid in everyday use...

Anyways, I was curious about people's experience with the rapid-winder? I've never been particularly interested in them, but the body I bought came with one on it. I figured I would just look into selling it or otherwise swapping it out for a normal baseplate, as one of the things I really love about my IIIc is how tiny/lightweight it is despite the high-quality feel.

Having shot only half a roll, I will concede that it makes for a big difference in the shooting experience. I'd say that they would be sort of silly on a camera with the more modern thumb-lever advance, but on the knob-wind bodies, it does tend to speed things up *a LOT*. The cost of that is a significantly taller body, and I would guess a pretty sizable weight penalty...

Anyone care to weigh in? Either converts to trigger-winders or people similar to (I think) me who prefer the lighter weight and smaller size of the normally-equipped bodies?




edit: in short, to be clear, i was curious about them (rapid-winders) but not particularly interested before buying the IVsb2. having used the camera with it, it is quite the novelty, and the engineering is impressive. that being said, i think my gut feeling hasn't changed, and that i value and prefer the small size/lightweight purity of a normal Barnack. i'm open-minded, though, and will continue to use it for at least a few rolls in order to give it a chance...

 

[Brian Legge]

I had one briefly but ended up sending the body and winder back to the seller due to shutter speed problems. I loved the idea, but when I stepped back and thought about how I used bottom loaders, I realized I valued them for their small size. If the size was irrelevant, I'd use an M. Trigger winders help when shooting fast.. but I don't. I'm slow, particularly with film.

In hindsight, the defect was probably a blessing in disguise for me. But thats the key bit 'for me'. Your values and how you use the camera may be totally different than how I used these bodies. The trigger winder does the job well (and adds an interesting weight/balance to the camera). If it works well for you, definitely run with it!

 

[Mackinaw]

I have one, that I, at times, put on my Canon III-A. I like it. While it does make the camera bulkier, no doubt it greatly speeds up the film advance process. And honestly, the added bulk doesn't bother me.

My problem isn't with the camera/winder combo, but with the III-A's viewfinder. It's of the "squinty" variety, making viewing and focusing a pain. I'm spoiled by my M-series Leicas' so that's what I normally shoot with. So the III-A and winder mostly sit in my cabinet.

Jim B.

 

[Dez]

Who on the list REALLY uses an old RF camera for its practicality?

Me, if I need to take a lot of pictures quickly, I use my DSLR.

Heretically,
Dez

 

[Spicy]

i was just curious about what people thought of the weight/size penalty vs handling improvement... are the rapid winders worth selling/is it possible to buy a plain bottom plate? i poked around on evilBay but couldn't find either that wasn't attached to a body, lol.

 

[Tom A]

The Rapidwinders are mainly used for faster shooting - and also for holding the camera steady. This is particularly important with a camera like the Canon IV as you have to drop the camera to get to the advance knob.
For cameras with a lever rewind (m and similar) - the Rapidwinder eliminates having the advance lever poking you in the eye if you are a left eye shooter.

 

[mike rosenlof]

I have a bottom load Canon and a Leotax. I am never in a hurry when using these cameras, so have never felt a need for a trigger winder. I go for smaller size lenses with these bodies also.

 

[FrankS]

I wouldn't go out of my way to acquire a trigger winder for a screw mourn RF, but since your camera came with one, go ahead and use it. If you find that it makes the camera too big or heavy for you, then try to find a normal baseplate and sell off the winder. It's you and your camera, who cares what anyone else would do. Decide for yourself based on your own experience.

 

[Spicy]

haha, thanks for the input everyone -- yeah, I wasn't asking "what should I do?" but rather for other's experiences, like if someone also wasn't looking for a rapid-winder-equipped camera, but after using it for 1-2 months decided it was a pleasant change or something like that.

looks like I'll probably look into selling it for a normal baseplate, though not in much of a hurry. does anyone know what the current market value would roughly be for *just* a Canon rapid-winder? I seem to be having difficulty wording an evilBay search correctly to yield results for the Canon one (Leicavits are plentiful).

 

[peterm1]

I kind of enjoy the zen like experience of winding on an old LTM type camera, whether its a Leica, a Canon or something else so I am maybe the wrong person to ask given my bias towards the wind, wind, wind experience. I don't believe I have ever lost a shot because of this either so I must say I do not think that doing it the old way is really a disadvantage unless you have a time machine and have scored a job as a photo reporter in 1957.

I have seen a Canon trigger wind although I have not used one. I seem to recall they are not cheap to buy, least the ones I saw were not. So you may have something in your hand that is worth almost as much as the camera itself if you desired to sell it. But I do not think I have ever seen a IVSB2 base-plate for sale so it may be a bit difficult to realize your ambition given the need for one to replace the said winder if you wish to keep the camera in service. So my advice would be hang onto it unless you get lucky.

BTW the IVSB 2 is in my view the best of the early style Canon rangefinder cameras. It is distinguished by having a slightly less pokey viewfinder than the older models including if memory serves me correct, the IVSB, its forebear. I owned one (the SB2) for a number of years before stupidly selling it (for God knows what reason). It had the much loved and admired 50mm f1.5 lens that is so in vogue right now and I always regretted it as it was a sweet camera to use, especially with that lens which like most Sonnar designs has a certain je ne sais quoi. Like all LTM cameras though, it was a little hit and miss in terms of actually getting shots - but of course, that's part of the fun.

I should also add that I think the later Canon cameras with the bottom wind missed the mark a bit as they did not come with both top lever and bottom wind. (A few later models had a top wind lever, this innovation having replaced the windy knob by then but most other models had the bottom wind trigger instead). It was always my view that assuming Canon was committed to bottom wind technology, a camera with both would be a far more attractive proposition and have far greater market appeal, due to the obvious flexibility it afforded. Presumably you have that flexibility with an accessory bottom wind for the IVSB2 given it also has a knob wind so go for it!

 

[goamules]

I'd like to try the winder for the small Canons. With the big ones, the VTs, it makes the camera so big I don't like the whole package.

 

[Bingley]

The IVSB2 I purchased several years ago, from a member here, came with a rapidwinder, and I used it for awhile. Ultimately, though, I acquired a regular baseplate (by purchasing the cheapest Canon III I could find) and have used the IVSB2 since in a conventional configuration. I don't mind the winding knob and appreciate the sleeker look of the camera without the rapidwinder.

 

[ellisson]

One advantage that I find with the rapid winder on knob wind cameras is the ability to recompose or re-frame a subject from slightly different angles or perspectives with minimal camera motion and without taking my eye off the viewfinder. It's mainly a convenient way to 'not repeat' what I already did (the memory is fading with age!). Its kind of like a memory aid for me!

 

[Spicy]

just got back from a CLA with Youxin and she's running butter-smooth now with some new shutter curtains that he installed (mine arrived w/ some pin-holes).

he also had a regular bottom plate lying around (i think he said it was from a different barnack-copy that had angled corners) that seemed to fit, so i picked that up as well 😛.

time to cut some leaders and take this bad Suzie out for some action, new and improved and lightweight (compared to the rapid-winder).

 

[Fixcinater]

I have a VT and I enjoy using it. I wouldn't necessarily seek one out again, but since I have the option, I put it to use.

It's 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other on lever vs trigger wind for me right now.

 

[Vince Lupo]

Reviving an old thread here....

I just purchased a Canon rangefinder from a fellow member (I believe it's a IId2) and it has the rapidwinder. I noticed online that you could also add a 'grip' to the rapidwinder. There seems to be two versions of the grip -- one two locating pins (which appear to be for this model) and a later version with a metal plate on the front that says 'Canon' (I'm not sure if this one is specifically for the VT and no other model). Does anyone know if that later version might work on the earlier rapidwinder, or do I need to get the one that has the locating pins? I've found one of the later one, but obviously don't want to order it if it's not going to work.

Any words of wisdom you can offer this poor boy would be greatly appreciated!

 

[peterm1]

Reviving an old thread here....

I just purchased a Canon rangefinder from a fellow member (I believe it's a IId2) and it has the rapidwinder. I noticed online that you could also add a 'grip' to the rapidwinder. There seems to be two versions of the grip -- one two locating pins (which appear to be for this model) and a later version with a metal plate on the front that says 'Canon' (I'm not sure if this one is specifically for the VT and no other model). Does anyone know if that later version might work on the earlier rapidwinder, or do I need to get the one that has the locating pins? I've found one of the later one, but obviously don't want to order it if it's not going to work.

Any words of wisdom you can offer this poor boy would be greatly appreciated!

If the grips you are thinking of are like the ones I have seen I do not much like them. They are a large (ish) knurled metal cylinder which screws into the tripod mounting screw hole in the base plate and project well below the camera. To me this makes it ungainly (e.g. you cannot sit the camera down on its base with this mounted) and I think the trigger wind base is in any event perfectly usable without it. I thus believe that if it were me I would find myself leaving the "grip" behind on a day to day basis and it would become yet another piece of little used camera equipment in my drawer (one of many). You will no doubt understand from my answer that I fully understand the impulse you are feeling to buy the full kit of gear and have often succumbed to this myself. Other than this I can sadly give no advice as this is one impulse to buy I have not succumbed to.

 

[Mackinaw]

I, on the other hand, love the accessory grip for the Rapid Winder that’s on my IVSb2. Holding the grip with my palm and advancing the film with my fingers is quick, easy and sure. I can’t imagine using my Rapid Winder without it.

To answer your question, looking at some old Canon rangefinder literature I have, the grip for the Vt-series is different from the earlier grips used on bottom-loading Canon’s. The Vt grip has has screw-in lug and that is it, there are no positioning lugs like found on the older grip. Hope this helps.

Jim B.

 

[Vince Lupo]

I, on the other hand, love the accessory grip for the Rapid Winder that’s on my IVSb2. Holding the grip with my palm and advancing the film with my fingers is quick, easy and sure. I can’t imagine using my Rapid Winder without it.

To answer your question, looking at some old Canon rangefinder literature I have, the grip for the Vt-series is different from the earlier grips used on bottom-loading Canon’s. The Vt grip has has screw-in lug and that is it, there are no positioning lugs like found on the older grip. Hope this helps.

Jim B.

So no idea if the VT grip would actually fit the older rapidwinder, other than the fact that it doesn't have the locating pins? KEH has one with the strap for $41 -- not sure if it's worth a gamble or not!

 

[nhchen]

Hi Vince, I’ve got one of the later grips for the VT cameras. Instead of the pins it uses the straight corners of the camera to hold it in place on the VT camera. I’ve also got an earlier trigger winder like yours, while it does screw in place solidly, because the pins aren’t there, the knurled grip can easily spin around which may be annoying when using it, however the bottom part of the grip still stays stationary because that’s the part you used to screw it into the camera. So it would work but not ideal. I hope my description makes sense.
Nathan