bmattock
Veteran
Perhaps I can be forgiven. It seems that Steven lowered his price on the Voigtlander Bessamatic by $100 - it has been discontinued. M42 mount, for those who have been living in a cave with Osama. Goes with my Bessa R. Now I have LTM and M42 mount cameras - new cameras, ancient lenses. Fun stuff!
Put this next to my Mamiya Super Deluxe for comparison. Haven't done more than unbox it so far - will try to test it this weekend.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Put this next to my Mamiya Super Deluxe for comparison. Haven't done more than unbox it so far - will try to test it this weekend.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Last edited:
Looks nice Bill.
Another discontinues Cosina camera though, hmmm, I wonder what is going on? They are now down to the.....the R2s and R2c. Hmmmm........
Another discontinues Cosina camera though, hmmm, I wonder what is going on? They are now down to the.....the R2s and R2c. Hmmmm........
bmattock
Veteran
rover said:
I don't know, but I suspect that Cosina has the idea right. They can turn out small lots, break down the tooling, and move on, and do it profitably. I doubt that they planned to make a LOT of these - the market is pretty small. So they make a small number and move on, freeing the tooling up for something else. What else? Probably something digital. And rangefinderish. Or even an M42 SLR digital. Wouldn't THAT be nice?
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Taipei-metro
Veteran
Bessaflex silver or black body are still $289 in Gaundy's site or Ebay?$100 off?
R
Rich Silfver
Guest
I love the look of the Mamiya Super Deluxe 
I WILL finish the roll I have in mine this weekend. I will.
I WILL finish the roll I have in mine this weekend. I will.
bmattock
Veteran
Taipei-metro said:
I mean it is $100 off the original price - $399. Actually, I guess it's $110 off. But who's counting?
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
bmattock
Veteran
rsilfverberg said:I love the look of the Mamiya Super Deluxe
I WILL finish the roll I have in mine this weekend. I will.
There *is* something special about these boogers, isn't there? I don't know why. It's a solid block, without graceful lines like the Electro GSN or even the Auto S2 or Hi-Matic 7S. So what is it? I just like it, that's all.
Plus, there are so FEW of them. Hehehehe. And I've got several. Hehehehe.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
R
Rich Silfver
Guest
I agree..I think that's why I now I have three Olympus 35LC cameras..I love the look of them. Actually striking resemblence to the Mamiya Super Deluxe....
bmattock
Veteran
rsilfverberg said:
Ah, the One That Got Away...I *still* don't have one of those boogers. Such a bummer. And yes, they DO resemble each other.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
S
Scarpia
Guest
bmattock
Veteran
Scarpia said:
I saw this on their webpage (in Japanese, I just looked at the pictures).
I'm normally a pretty big fan of Cosina's stuff, but this one doesn't do anything for me. It's essentially a Minolta X370 with a Pentax K mount. I'm not into Pentax K mount lenses, so yawn for me. I mean, there have been a couple of Chinese manufacturers of this particular configuration for awhile, yes? I mean Phoenix and the like. Is this different somehow - besides being built in Japan?
However, I am prepared to be amazed. Somebody quick tell me what it does that makes it special!
Me want Cosina/Voigtlander DIGITAL rangefinder at R2 +/- prices! UGH!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Me thinks the R2 price for Cosina rangefinders is a thing of the past. Apparently the only production Voigtlander rangefinder camera coming out of Cosina right now is the R2s and R2c. One would think they are, or have retooled and are stocking up on their new camera.
I think you are right Bill about their production style. I looked, I guess only the Silver Bessaflex is discontinued. But they seem to be willing to produce a model to satisfy a certain need, new body to shoot M42 lenses, and get out quickly if the return isn't there. Being that they mostly have used the same frame for most of their cameras they have kept their cost down, and had sucess I am sure.
I think you are right Bill about their production style. I looked, I guess only the Silver Bessaflex is discontinued. But they seem to be willing to produce a model to satisfy a certain need, new body to shoot M42 lenses, and get out quickly if the return isn't there. Being that they mostly have used the same frame for most of their cameras they have kept their cost down, and had sucess I am sure.
Well I hope the VSL namesake does not follow the camera that it was names for; that one was pretty much the end of the line for the original Voigtlander. Personally, I would have liked an auto-exposure SLR with a modern mount and zoom-normal to have carried the Cosina name.
As for the Bessaflex: How does it stack up against my Argus/Cosina STL1000 which is still going strong? I notice that the meter switch is in the same place...
As for the Bessaflex: How does it stack up against my Argus/Cosina STL1000 which is still going strong? I notice that the meter switch is in the same place...
taffer
void
Tha Bessaflex is a beauty Bill, and has got a $100 rebate? Hmm, now I'm thinking...
For me, Cosina is almost building today the collectible pieces of tomorrow, both speaking of cameras and lenses, and by building the R and making it affordable a great thing for all the RF world, I think even Leica may benefit from that.
For me, Cosina is almost building today the collectible pieces of tomorrow, both speaking of cameras and lenses, and by building the R and making it affordable a great thing for all the RF world, I think even Leica may benefit from that.
chenick
Nick's my name!
Nice one!! I bought a Cosina SLR off ebay. It turned out to have a faulty shutter, but it wasn't worth returning (kept the 28mm lens)
Anyway, there are some very sweet lenses out there in M42, I've got a Pentax SMC Takumar 135mm and am keeping my eye open for a plain old Takumar 50mm 1.4 (although a 1.8 would do)
Currently awaiting a Mamiya SLR with spot/average average metering in m42 mount to arrive, naturally these are just for situations where my fixed lens rangefinders won't suit...
-Nick
Anyway, there are some very sweet lenses out there in M42, I've got a Pentax SMC Takumar 135mm and am keeping my eye open for a plain old Takumar 50mm 1.4 (although a 1.8 would do)
Currently awaiting a Mamiya SLR with spot/average average metering in m42 mount to arrive, naturally these are just for situations where my fixed lens rangefinders won't suit...
-Nick
oftheherd
Veteran
I had thought about the Bessa when it first was announced, as I have a nice collection of 35mm M-42 mount lenses. Since I also have several screw mount bodies, I just couldn't see buying another one, whose reliability has not yet been proven like my Yashica TL Super and my Fujicas. Let us know how you like it.
bmattock
Veteran
oftheherd said:
I also have a couple of screw-mount bodies, but I have not had good luck.
First, I got a couple of Fujica ST-605N's, since everyone says good things about them. Got duds both times out. Described as 'mint' of course. Then, I got a Fujica ST-701. Dud. OK, this was getting old. And the prices on the really recommended ST-801 were sky-high on eBay, thanks to Steven Gandy and others talking them up!
Then, I got a Vivitar SL-450/2 that actually IS 'mint' and that makes me happy. Same Copal Square shutter as the Bessaflex (well, probably older, eh). Larger body. Made when metal meant METAL, not this weird 'metal' of the Bessaflex. But, the meter is a bit flaky. It meters by stopping down automagically when you press the shutter down half-way. This can be disconcerting. I think I'd rather have it engage the stop-down lever when *I* want it to, instead of when it wants to. A tad annoying, but I could live with it. Nice BIG body - and I have largish hands. But alas, sometimes the meter refuses to turn on. Works enough to keep me guessing.
Now, since I've probably spent as much on defective M42 bodies as I just did on the Bessaflex, I wised up and decided that the lenses were not a problem - they either work or they don't. But the bodies were falling to pieces and just not working out for me. If you've got good ones, cool! But I had to make a decision - either sell off the M42 lenses, or get a decent M42 body. I thought about picking ONE of my Fujica SLRs and having it totally gone through - but what do you end up with? A 30 year old camera that works great TODAY, but may not work so great TOMORROW.
Is the Bessaflex unproven? Yep. Not a lot of people buying it and reporting on it. However, I have come to trust my Voigtlander Bessa R - I love it! People who complain about the 'plasticky' feel are nuts, in my humble opinion - it feels great, balances well, just makes me altogether happy. Kobayashi-san strikes me as a guy who is nuts about cameras - what a great thing to see in a CEO of a camera company! Sure, Mr. Davidson rides Harleys, but come on - he's no Harley dude. He's a politician. Since I believe Kobayashi-san loves what he makes and makes things he thinks other camera nuts will love, my trust level goes up. Coupled with my experience with my Bessa R, I decided to take the plunge as soon as the price dropped.
Also - Steven Gandy says that the Bessaflex has a brighter screen than the much-vaunted Fujica ST-801. That's good, since my eyes are getting older and it is hard to focus, especially with stop-down metering (another good reason to stick to rangefinders whenever possible, hehehe). I trust Steven Gandy as well. His word means something to me - and it seems to affect many others as well - he touts something and it drives the price straight up on eBoy! I wrote to him, he says the silver and the black Bessaflex have the same screen brightness - essentially the same camera. And I've always loved the classic Topcon look of the silver Bessaflex!
In my opinion, I am taking LESS of a chance on this Bessaflex than I did on one bad classic SLR after another on eBay. I'm not bitter, it's just luck of the draw - but I kept getting stung, and classic M42 body prices are not the cheapest - others want them too.
If I turn out to have made a big mistake, I'll post my experiences here - and warn everyone off if I can. But I think I'm going to be very happy.
I appreciate your concern and your valid points - but my own experience has been just the opposite! Luck of the draw, I suspect.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
JohnM
Well-known
I've considered the Bessaflex, but have been scared off by the quality concerns - let us know how your experience is, Bill.
I have a Vivitar 450/SLD as well and love it. It is ab absolute tank of a camera. It makes the Fuji screw mount bodies seem like modern compacts in terms of heft. I actually like having the stop-down metering controlled by the shutter button - if you put a nice soft release on the shutter, it's much more comfortable and I find that the meter release button falls nicely under my pinky finger when my forefinger is on the soft release.
I've tried to find a second 450 body, but they don't come around often. How does the Bessaflex compare in size and feel to the 450?
I'll be interested to hear your thoughts - I have a nice collection of screw mount lenses; 20/3.8, 24/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2.8, 35-105, 135/2.8 (close focusing Vivitar - a great lens), 60-150, 200/2.8 and 400/5.6 with a host of extension tubes and converters.
My current solution for a "backup body" is a little unique, but works very well - I use an M42 to EOS adaptor on a Digital Rebel. Metering is available in manual and aperture priority modes - get a lot of strange looks packing a manual focus screw mount lens on a digital SLR, but what the heck.
I have a Vivitar 450/SLD as well and love it. It is ab absolute tank of a camera. It makes the Fuji screw mount bodies seem like modern compacts in terms of heft. I actually like having the stop-down metering controlled by the shutter button - if you put a nice soft release on the shutter, it's much more comfortable and I find that the meter release button falls nicely under my pinky finger when my forefinger is on the soft release.
I've tried to find a second 450 body, but they don't come around often. How does the Bessaflex compare in size and feel to the 450?
I'll be interested to hear your thoughts - I have a nice collection of screw mount lenses; 20/3.8, 24/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2.8, 35-105, 135/2.8 (close focusing Vivitar - a great lens), 60-150, 200/2.8 and 400/5.6 with a host of extension tubes and converters.
My current solution for a "backup body" is a little unique, but works very well - I use an M42 to EOS adaptor on a Digital Rebel. Metering is available in manual and aperture priority modes - get a lot of strange looks packing a manual focus screw mount lens on a digital SLR, but what the heck.
bmattock
Veteran
JohnM said:
I'm interested - I keep hearing about the 'quality concerns' but I haven't heard anyone actually say that they bought one and had problems with it. Have you had any contact with someone who HAS experienced problems? I'm wondering if this is an 'urban myth?'
As I recall, there WERE some legitimate problems with the first Bessa R cameras - the rangefinders arrived out-of-the-box and out of adjustment. But that was the first batch - the problem was identified and fixed - as I recall. I have not heard anything since then.
I hear 'concerns' about the 'plastic' body - but that ended with the Bessa R2, which has a metal body - and although I agree that the metal body isn't 'all that' in terms of feel, I have had NO problems with my main 'go to' camera - the plastic-bodied Bessa R.
Yeah, I've got the Vivitar 450/SL (same as on Matt's Cameras site, only mine is in primo NIB condition, hehehe).
Matt's Cameras - Vivitar 450/SL
I can't really operate the meter release with my pinky - mine is weak and uncoordinated! Worthless appendage! Maybe some weight training for my little finger!
I had not thought of trying a soft release - good idea, thanks! But I still am not sure I like the weird automatic lens stop-down. I can get used to it, but it kind of gets on my nerves. Plus, it makes a snap noise which attracts attention BEFORE I release the shutter. Annoying. Not that a great honking SLR is a stealth camera anyway, but still. The pre-release feature, as you know, is spring-loaded. WHAMMO! It makes some noise when it goes off.
Much smaller, much lighter, but not as small to my hands as the Fujica ST-605N. That camera seems a bit TOO small for my meathooks. The Bessaflex seems 'about the right size' for me.
It actually is about the same size/weight and balance as a camera it is based on, which I once had - the Canon T-60 FD-mount SLR.
Canon T-60 Information
For those not familiar with the T-60 - it was Canon's folly - a T-series camera that didn't measure up. Instead of making it themselves (like the T50 T70 and famous T90), they farmed it out to Cosina. I *LIKE* the T-60, in fact I gave one to my nephew and I'll be buying another myself soon. It has a plastic body but a Copal Square shutter (which I like in a vintage camera, very durable I've found).
More Info on the Canon T-60
Here's another case of the 'smart money' being pretty dumb, in my opinion. The Canon T-60 was disparaged because it was NOT up to the standards of the T-90 (it came after the T-90, the last gasp of the T-series). And it wasn't, that's true. It also was NOT an F series or even an A series. But it was an entry level Canon that mounted the famous FD-series lenses and HAD aperture priority automatic exposure, fully metered manual, and was lighter, cheaper, and a bit more modern than the A series. Canon used it as a 'stopgap' camera. But it was NOT accepted for the good things it was - only cursed for what it was not. So it was not popular and there aren't that many of them out there, but I like 'em.
Now, here's the interesting part...
The Canon T-60 is the spittin' image of the Bessa R, with the pentaprism hump knocked off. Same plastic body, same film window on the back, same winder. I put them next to each other - yep, same camera, essentially.
So, Cosina turned the Canon T-60, which they made for Canon, into the Bessa R and now they've put the pentaprism BACK ON and made it into the Bessaflex. Funny old world, ain't it?
By the way - I was the first person to notice the family connection with the Canon T-60. Everyone was speculating that it was based on a Cosina-made Nikon of years past - but I saw the resemblance to the T-60 right away. Now it is a foregone conclusion, but at the time, nobody was listening to me. Sniff. I'm so neglected.
Let me get out and take some photos and I'll let you know. I love the Bessa R, so I'm inclined to be favorable to the Bessaflex - I'm not exactly unprejudiced here. But I will try to be fair in my evaluation.
I *like* that solution! I'm just waiting for the price to drop some more...and I'd REALLY like it if I could get a Sigma SD-9 for what the Canon Digital Rebal goes for. I just want to try that Foveon chip. I guess I'm just a sucker for underdogs...
Besides, imagine this...
Going out armed with a Canon T-60 and my FD prime lenses. A Bessa R and my LTM primes. And a Bessaflex and my M42 primes. All with the same 'look and feel' to the hand. All made by Cosina, with the same essential innards. Cool or what?
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Last edited:
P
pshinkaw
Guest
Bill:
I'm looking forward to seeing what you can do with your new Bessaflex. I went the other direction when I wanted an M42 body. I looked and looked for a Fujica ST series and couldn't get one at a reasonable price that wasn't beat -up. Eventually I reasoned that the minimal features I wanted were all in one of the best selling M42 cameras, the Spotmatic family. I then started looking for a meterless version (SV) since so many of the TTL meters have corroded battery compartments and I didn't need the TTL feature very much anyway. I found that the SV is one of the hardest to buy at a reasonable price. However, a good Spotmatic (oriiginal model) body with a welded shut battery compartment can be quite reasonable.
There is one guy who buys almost every nice Spotmatic on e-Bay, refurbishes them and resells them on e-Bay. He keeps the auction prices up with his bids and his sales. Once I ID'd him, I managed to buy a nice body at a reasonable price when he wasn't around. Next I'll try to fix-up the meter, but if I can't, it's no big deal since I have basically what I was originally looking for and I have other cameras with working TTL metering systems.
By the way, the Cosina made Vivitar XC series (probably smaller than what you want) has an M42 mount and an unusual stop down meteringng switch. The shutter release stops the lens down and turns on the meter, but a separate button on the bottom front of the body pops and locks the lens iris open again so you can re-focus. It's a 2 finger operation on the same hand. Push to close - push to open.
Enjoy!
-Paul
I'm looking forward to seeing what you can do with your new Bessaflex. I went the other direction when I wanted an M42 body. I looked and looked for a Fujica ST series and couldn't get one at a reasonable price that wasn't beat -up. Eventually I reasoned that the minimal features I wanted were all in one of the best selling M42 cameras, the Spotmatic family. I then started looking for a meterless version (SV) since so many of the TTL meters have corroded battery compartments and I didn't need the TTL feature very much anyway. I found that the SV is one of the hardest to buy at a reasonable price. However, a good Spotmatic (oriiginal model) body with a welded shut battery compartment can be quite reasonable.
There is one guy who buys almost every nice Spotmatic on e-Bay, refurbishes them and resells them on e-Bay. He keeps the auction prices up with his bids and his sales. Once I ID'd him, I managed to buy a nice body at a reasonable price when he wasn't around. Next I'll try to fix-up the meter, but if I can't, it's no big deal since I have basically what I was originally looking for and I have other cameras with working TTL metering systems.
By the way, the Cosina made Vivitar XC series (probably smaller than what you want) has an M42 mount and an unusual stop down meteringng switch. The shutter release stops the lens down and turns on the meter, but a separate button on the bottom front of the body pops and locks the lens iris open again so you can re-focus. It's a 2 finger operation on the same hand. Push to close - push to open.
Enjoy!
-Paul