Nikkor 105 2.5...AI or Pre-AI?

[bgetty]

Hey folks,

Looking to pick up a copy of this wonderful lens and just curious as to any noteworthy differences between the Pre-AI and AI versions (besides the very obvious one). I plan to use it on my cherished Nikon F.

Opinions, sample images, and advice is all welcomed. Thanks!

B.

 

[azzurri]

IIRC, the AI and later 105mm is the Gauss-type design and they generally produce better colours and are sharper. That being said, I think the pre-AI version will look really good on an F 🙂

 

[Contarama]

Since you have a F I would get the early sonnar version of the lens.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Get both eventually and see how different they are side by side.
Both are stellar optics and really have a signature all their own.

Phil Forrest

 

[peterm1]

The pre AI lens is based on a Sonnar design or at least a variant. At some point more or less around the time that AI lenses became the standard, (slightly before, I think) the lens was redesigned using 5 elements in 4 groups (a Gauss design) instead of 5/3. This was sharper and was also optimized for closer shooting (beneficial given this lens came to be used for portrait work rather than as a short telephoto lens, per se).

Both are excellent but the later lens is regarded as being technically the better of the two. In fact its regarded as a Nikkor "great" that still has not been surpassed. But the earlier lens is still wonderful and has that lovely Sonnar quality of producing images that are sharp but "rounded". In any event it produces lovely images that maybe are not quite so crisp but have that certain "something" courtesy of having more aberrations. I have the earlier Sonnar lens (factory converted to AI) that I would not part with. It produces lovely images.

But it really depends on what kind of work you do and what your preferences are. |Speaking personally I like lenses with that character.

 

[bgetty]

Thanks for the great and prompt replies, all. There are some wonderfully priced pre-AI versions on KEH that I may go for.

Anybody have samples they'd like to share? Will mostly be using mine as a short telephoto, in skateboard photography and for the odd portrait, but feel free to post anything you've got!

 

[Vics]

My pre-ai version is the later gauss design.

 

[Dwig]

The pre AI lens is based on a Sonnar design or at least a variant. At some point more or less around the time that AI lenses became the standard, (slightly before, I think) ...

Actually, quite a bit before the introduction of Ai. The non-Ai Planar type was made for roughly 5 years before the introduction of the Ai coupling.

The easiest to see reliable tell-tale is to check the minimum focusing distance. All of the variants of the original design have a 3.5' minimum focusing distance. The improved Planar design has a 3.0' minimum focusing distance regardless of barrel variant.

All variants of the Planar design have some form of multi-layer coating, but the most common pre-Ai variant has an earlier form with fewer layers than the later "Integrated Coating" (aka IC) version that has a tell-tale green reflection.

 

[azzurri]

I don't have the Sonnar design 105mm. Mine is the Gauss design and the above was taken with it. The lens is tack sharp and I love it. Though I don't use it quite as often as I should.

 

[mretina]

the first Gauss one is 407301 in 1971. Any earlier is Sonnar. It is easy to tell as the minimum aperture of the Gauss design is f32, while the Sonnar pre AI is f22. (Then AI version are all Gauss and f22 from 1977).
Pre-AI Multi-coating was added in 1973 with -C designation and serial number 500000+ if I am not mistaken.
Needless to say, I have one of each.

 

[Dwig]

...
Pre-AI Multi-coating was added in 1973 with -C designation and serial number 500000+ if I am not mistaken.
Needless to say, I have one of each.

That was the full "Nikon Integrated Coating", which I believe spec'd a minimum of 8 layers. The original 1971 model sported an earlier multi-layer coating that was never marked and wasn't advertised as such. It was only mentioned in the technical literature. The original 35mm f/1.4 also sported a similar early MC on several surfaces.

 

[jbielikowski]

I have the early one and its lovely.

 

[mretina]

That was the full "Nikon Integrated Coating", which I believe spec'd a minimum of 8 layers. The original 1971 model sported an earlier multi-layer coating that was never marked and wasn't advertised as such. It was only mentioned in the technical literature. The original 35mm f/1.4 also sported a similar early MC on several surfaces.

which explains the color of mine (pre 73). thanks!. it has been a clarification I have been after for a while...and I have just read better your post above.

 

[bgetty]

I have the early one and its lovely.

Fantastic. Can't wait to get my hands on this lens.

Have decided on the pre-AI, I think. Thank you all again for contributing.

 

[Shac]

The easiest to see reliable tell-tale is to check the minimum focusing distance. All of the variants of the original design have a 3.5' minimum focusing distance. The improved Planar design has a 3.0' minimum focusing distance regardless of barrel variant.

Another easy way is to look at the rear element - it's quite small - a tad larger than a quarter, whereas the Gauss design is almost twice the area.
I have both and find them both excellent - IMO you can't go wrong with either

PS have a look here http://www.destoutz.ch/lenses_telephoto_105mm_f2.5.html

 

[ampguy]

Here's one from a P*C F mount (post Sonnar, M/C, preAI), no post processing, developed at Walgreens, VC 400 Portra, Nikon F3:

I've found that it's basically *too* sharp for portraits of older people. About 5 years ago, I took photos of my parents with then. Ever since then, I've been taking FSU or other lenses to photograph them 😉

(ps: I put the F3/105/2.5 kit in the classifieds here a few times a year, but no takers so far. Will probably put in the ads here again soon for spring cleaning).