fbf
Well-known
That would be me. 
I consulted a few members here for opinions on Nikon RF and EVERYONE said the same thing " go for it":bang:
So i was searching on ebay and found a nice sp set starting at $10. I saved it in my listing and the next morning...$900 already and still 6 days left. lol I guess I underestimated the charm of nikon RF or is every single nikon collector out there watching 24/7?
Oh, well. I guess I shouldn't set the goal too high for the first body.
I consulted a few members here for opinions on Nikon RF and EVERYONE said the same thing " go for it":bang:So i was searching on ebay and found a nice sp set starting at $10. I saved it in my listing and the next morning...$900 already and still 6 days left. lol I guess I underestimated the charm of nikon RF or is every single nikon collector out there watching 24/7?
Oh, well. I guess I shouldn't set the goal too high for the first body.
Go for a user condition S2 or S3. With some patience, a body and 5cm F2 or F1.4 lens can be had for $500~$600. The SP's are going to command a premium, and a user will go for 1,000 and up with a 5cm lens. Prices go up quickly for cameras near mint condition.
Allow me to throw a spanner in the works
If you can afford the extra outlay, get a good user SP! I say that because if you get an S2 or S3 first and like it, you're probably going to want an SP anyway. So why not just go directly to an SP! Plus, if you purchase wisely but find that the SP is not for you, you should be able to sell it and recoup your initial outlay.
Still, there's nothing wrong with a user S2 or S3
If you can afford the extra outlay, get a good user SP! I say that because if you get an S2 or S3 first and like it, you're probably going to want an SP anyway. So why not just go directly to an SP! Plus, if you purchase wisely but find that the SP is not for you, you should be able to sell it and recoup your initial outlay.
Still, there's nothing wrong with a user S2 or S3
ZeissFan
Veteran
I was lucky enough to find a Nikon S with the f/2.0 50mm Nikkor for $250. This was about four years ago, and I found it at an online pawn shop.
Like some other cameras, collectors and fanatics have really pushed up the price on the Nikon rangefinders.
Like some other cameras, collectors and fanatics have really pushed up the price on the Nikon rangefinders.
dng88
Dennis
Why? Nikon lens selection is less compared with M mount. If $ is an issue, I think you may want to start with CV and their lens. Also, you may even want to try http://www.photoethnography.com/. I understand the feel of some camera operation is special. To some it is Leica. To some it is Nikon http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html . Still, you have lot of choice.
JohnM
Well-known
An entry into Nikon rangefinders is surprisingly inexpensive. If you're patient, an S2 with a 50/1.4 can be had on ebay for $450+. The "bang for the buck" there is off the charts.
I think Jon is right in saying that if you end up liking Nikon RFs, you'll end up with an SP - and Lord knows what else - but the S2 is an excellent companion to it if you do decide to stick with it.
I think Jon is right in saying that if you end up liking Nikon RFs, you'll end up with an SP - and Lord knows what else - but the S2 is an excellent companion to it if you do decide to stick with it.
marcr1230
Well-known
I got an S2 a few months ago and am very happy with it - love the viewfinder and focusing. Just developed a roll today and the negs are excellent - very sharp. I do agree with previous poster jonmanjiro - if you like the S2, you'll want to try the SP. I'm looking for the right one now.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The S2 is nice (it should be, I have three of them!), but as a starter kit I would recommend the S3. A bit "cluttered" finder with the 35/50/105 frames, but not too bad. Brighter than the SP too.
You can get a nice little kit for a S3 if you stay away from the "fashion" lenses. The 35f2.5 Nikkor is very good, as good as the Summicron 35 from the same era. The 50f1.4's are again as good, or in this case better, than any of the M Summiluxes of the time and the 105/2,5 is a hefty lens - but it is still one of the best portrait, medium long lenses available - particularly in bl/w. Combine that kit with a VC 21f4 in SC mount and you are set for a while (at least until you break down and get a S2 for the 50!). With some careful shopping, you should be able to "accumulate" this kit for less than a used Leica MP or a used M6 and a lens.
One advantage with Nikon is that the "run of the mill" lenses, the 35f2.5, the 50f2 or 50f1.4 and the 105f2.5 are quite reasonably priced, as is the S2/S3's. The exotic stuff is so expensive that you wont even consider it as you would hate to carry it around on day to day shooting expeditions.
Yes. of course it would be fun to use the 21f4, the Micro 50f3.5, the 50f1.1 etc - but banging those around could cause cardiac arrest in lesser mortals!
You can get a nice little kit for a S3 if you stay away from the "fashion" lenses. The 35f2.5 Nikkor is very good, as good as the Summicron 35 from the same era. The 50f1.4's are again as good, or in this case better, than any of the M Summiluxes of the time and the 105/2,5 is a hefty lens - but it is still one of the best portrait, medium long lenses available - particularly in bl/w. Combine that kit with a VC 21f4 in SC mount and you are set for a while (at least until you break down and get a S2 for the 50!). With some careful shopping, you should be able to "accumulate" this kit for less than a used Leica MP or a used M6 and a lens.
One advantage with Nikon is that the "run of the mill" lenses, the 35f2.5, the 50f2 or 50f1.4 and the 105f2.5 are quite reasonably priced, as is the S2/S3's. The exotic stuff is so expensive that you wont even consider it as you would hate to carry it around on day to day shooting expeditions.
Yes. of course it would be fun to use the 21f4, the Micro 50f3.5, the 50f1.1 etc - but banging those around could cause cardiac arrest in lesser mortals!
I tend to grab the S3 in favor of the S2's as the finder offers more margin for the 50mm frames with glasses. The 35mm frames are about unuseable with glasses. The S2 RF patch has more contrast than most S3's. My late model SP's, titanium curtains, have higher-contrast RF patches than the earlier one. Either Nikon improved the silvering, or the three of them just got lucky. The RF patch of my late SP's are as good as my 5 S2's.
JohnM
Well-known
As Tom said, if you stick to the basics, you can get into a nice Nikon kit for not much money. I picked up an S2, a variable focal finder, 50/2, 35/2.5, 105/2.5 - and then had Pete Smith CLA the body and Sherry Krauter CLA the lenses - for about $1,350 total.
So strange that an original lens' hood will knock your bank account silly, but some really nice lenses are just a steal compared to M-stuff. Even a CLA ($150 with Pete Smith) is less than half of what I generally expect to pay Golden Touch for a Leica tuneup.
I do not have a preference between the S2 and S3 finders. S3 is brighter, but more cluttered with a less-than-spectacular RF patch. I don't wear glasses and do appreciate the 35mm framelines. S2 is marginally darker but has a more distinct patch. SP seems to be somewhere in the middle on all counts. All are perfectly usable, even in low light.
So strange that an original lens' hood will knock your bank account silly, but some really nice lenses are just a steal compared to M-stuff. Even a CLA ($150 with Pete Smith) is less than half of what I generally expect to pay Golden Touch for a Leica tuneup.
I do not have a preference between the S2 and S3 finders. S3 is brighter, but more cluttered with a less-than-spectacular RF patch. I don't wear glasses and do appreciate the 35mm framelines. S2 is marginally darker but has a more distinct patch. SP seems to be somewhere in the middle on all counts. All are perfectly usable, even in low light.
VinceC
Veteran
As said above, the S2 tends to be a high value if you intend to shoot mainly the 50mm Nikkor (f/1.4 is one of the classic lenses of photography).
If you put a CV minifinder onto a Nikon S2, with its 28 and 35mm framelines, the setup actually is more usable than an SP finder -- the Cosina minifinder has a maginification of about .50 and is extremely bright, with an abilkity to see outside the 28mm frameline; the SP wide-angle minifinder has a magnification of about .33 and is noticeably dimmer.
The S2's slightly antiquated controls take some getting used to. Two separate shutter dials are cool but a bit slow to use.
If you end up wanting to shoot a lot of telephotos, then the SP with a good finder is unmatched by anything offered by Leica, Cosina or others. 1:1 magnification with framelines for 85 / 105 and 135mm lenses. Each of those Nikkor lenses is top-notch, best of the best, and the lifesize finder allows you to actually focus and frame them. Leica owners talk about how RFs are unsuited for telephoto work. Nikon users know better.
The SP has to be looked at in context of its time. It was a photojournalists camera, ideal for those who change lenses or use a lot of different lenses. One camera with no extra finder can handle 28mm shot and a 135mm close-up with just a few seconds for a lens change. There is very little in photojournalism that can't be handled within the 28mm-135mm range, which is also the range of the most useful modern kit zooms on SLRs and digicams.
The framelines on the SP create a "tunnel" effect, one inside the other as you select longer lenses, so I don't personally consider it to be "cluttered." The "clutter" comes from two finders next to each other. This is not a camera you can just hand to someone. It confuses them. My elementary school daughters like to noodle around with my old cameras, but are usually puzzled by the SP finder. It is a photojournalist's finder, not a snapshooter's finder. And it is a photojournalists finder from a pre-SLR era, when telephotos were extremely important to photoreportage. Once workable SLRs were introduced, the SP's very specific market vanished almost immediately aqnd production all but ceased. The fairly small numbers of SPs is one reason their value remains high. Also, the majority of SP owners just think the camera looks cool but never actually use it. That "cool" factor keeps the prices up.
My early cloth-shutter SP has a fairly dim finder/;RF patch. SP 2005 has a great finder.
The SP was widely professionally used for only about 2 years before the Nikon F was introduced. The F, with its "what you see is what you get" finder, reached a much wider, less specialized audience and within months outsold all the existing SPs. If you think about what camera newcomers always seek, the first lens is a "normal" or a kit lens, and the next lens is the longest telephoto they can easily justify, which is then widely misused in place of getting physically closer to the subject, then you can understand the attraction of the F. -- Whole lot of people bought a camera with a 50mm lens, then a 135mm lens. There are also many Nikon RF kits on EBay with a 50mm and 135mm lens.
In many situations, the neglected Nikon S3 is my favorite camera. It has etched framelines for 35mm, 50mm and 105mm lenses. With a little experience, you can shoot the 28mm lens using the 35mm framelines and framing very tight. The advantage here is that you get a very bright, lifesize viewfinder for 28mm and 35mm lenses. I've been using these camera almost daily for 20 years now, and I still feel much more intimately connected to the image when shooting a wide-angle or 50mm image with an S3. The SPs slightly dimmer finder and reduced-image wide-angle make me feel somehow further away and disconnected, whereas the S3, with its very big, bright finder, is more like a clear window, leaving me still closely involved. It's subtle, but to me it's real.
If you wear eyeglasses, all of these cameras are problematic and require solutions that aren't easily dealt with. The S2's viewfinder is an eyeglass killer. The S3 and SP don't have the S2's sharp lip, but they also are un-rubberized metal. The S3 is hardest on my eyeglasses because of your need to push your eye hard against the finder to shoot wide-angles. The SP is actually easiest to use for eyeglass-wearers because there's a good view of all the lens focal lengths without smashing your glasses against the finder.
I stick cushioning material against the finders, but this comes off sometimes and can gnk up your glasses.
If you put a CV minifinder onto a Nikon S2, with its 28 and 35mm framelines, the setup actually is more usable than an SP finder -- the Cosina minifinder has a maginification of about .50 and is extremely bright, with an abilkity to see outside the 28mm frameline; the SP wide-angle minifinder has a magnification of about .33 and is noticeably dimmer.
The S2's slightly antiquated controls take some getting used to. Two separate shutter dials are cool but a bit slow to use.
If you end up wanting to shoot a lot of telephotos, then the SP with a good finder is unmatched by anything offered by Leica, Cosina or others. 1:1 magnification with framelines for 85 / 105 and 135mm lenses. Each of those Nikkor lenses is top-notch, best of the best, and the lifesize finder allows you to actually focus and frame them. Leica owners talk about how RFs are unsuited for telephoto work. Nikon users know better.
The SP has to be looked at in context of its time. It was a photojournalists camera, ideal for those who change lenses or use a lot of different lenses. One camera with no extra finder can handle 28mm shot and a 135mm close-up with just a few seconds for a lens change. There is very little in photojournalism that can't be handled within the 28mm-135mm range, which is also the range of the most useful modern kit zooms on SLRs and digicams.
The framelines on the SP create a "tunnel" effect, one inside the other as you select longer lenses, so I don't personally consider it to be "cluttered." The "clutter" comes from two finders next to each other. This is not a camera you can just hand to someone. It confuses them. My elementary school daughters like to noodle around with my old cameras, but are usually puzzled by the SP finder. It is a photojournalist's finder, not a snapshooter's finder. And it is a photojournalists finder from a pre-SLR era, when telephotos were extremely important to photoreportage. Once workable SLRs were introduced, the SP's very specific market vanished almost immediately aqnd production all but ceased. The fairly small numbers of SPs is one reason their value remains high. Also, the majority of SP owners just think the camera looks cool but never actually use it. That "cool" factor keeps the prices up.
My early cloth-shutter SP has a fairly dim finder/;RF patch. SP 2005 has a great finder.
The SP was widely professionally used for only about 2 years before the Nikon F was introduced. The F, with its "what you see is what you get" finder, reached a much wider, less specialized audience and within months outsold all the existing SPs. If you think about what camera newcomers always seek, the first lens is a "normal" or a kit lens, and the next lens is the longest telephoto they can easily justify, which is then widely misused in place of getting physically closer to the subject, then you can understand the attraction of the F. -- Whole lot of people bought a camera with a 50mm lens, then a 135mm lens. There are also many Nikon RF kits on EBay with a 50mm and 135mm lens.
In many situations, the neglected Nikon S3 is my favorite camera. It has etched framelines for 35mm, 50mm and 105mm lenses. With a little experience, you can shoot the 28mm lens using the 35mm framelines and framing very tight. The advantage here is that you get a very bright, lifesize viewfinder for 28mm and 35mm lenses. I've been using these camera almost daily for 20 years now, and I still feel much more intimately connected to the image when shooting a wide-angle or 50mm image with an S3. The SPs slightly dimmer finder and reduced-image wide-angle make me feel somehow further away and disconnected, whereas the S3, with its very big, bright finder, is more like a clear window, leaving me still closely involved. It's subtle, but to me it's real.
If you wear eyeglasses, all of these cameras are problematic and require solutions that aren't easily dealt with. The S2's viewfinder is an eyeglass killer. The S3 and SP don't have the S2's sharp lip, but they also are un-rubberized metal. The S3 is hardest on my eyeglasses because of your need to push your eye hard against the finder to shoot wide-angles. The SP is actually easiest to use for eyeglass-wearers because there's a good view of all the lens focal lengths without smashing your glasses against the finder.
I stick cushioning material against the finders, but this comes off sometimes and can gnk up your glasses.
JonR
Well-known
Started with an S3 (bought it here at RFF), then an S2, then our nice friend in Japan JonM offered a SP2005 and later a S32000 - could not resist! Then came.... and then a few lenses.... well I think you get the story.... so whatch out - you will want them all (or at least more than one)!
Jon
Jon
The SP 2005 finder is definitely my favourite!
VinceC
Veteran
>>As I have noted in the past the SP is very easy to fit diopter to.<<
It's really the S3 that is the eyeglass killer for me. I'm fine with an SP because you can there's no need to hunt for corners of wide-angle frames.
It's really the S3 that is the eyeglass killer for me. I'm fine with an SP because you can there's no need to hunt for corners of wide-angle frames.
VinceC
Veteran
>>the SP is very easy to fit diopter to.<<
I've looked over your link again. Would Part # 2946 diopter thingy have rubberized protection? I'm very near-sighted and have been since elementary school, so removing the glasses to take pictures really wouldn't work well.
I've looked over your link again. Would Part # 2946 diopter thingy have rubberized protection? I'm very near-sighted and have been since elementary school, so removing the glasses to take pictures really wouldn't work well.
VinceC
Veteran
Been shooting the RF Nikkors 20 years so know their coverage quite well. But when you're well framing the 28mm/2.8cm, my most commonly used lens, using its best body, the S3, I like to see what everyone's doing in the frame. I know where they are and who's in and who's out of frame, but I also want to know who's doing what. People photography is all about the moment.
EDIT: I know this is a very specific pet peeve since I'm perhaps the only one on the planet shooting a 28mm lens with a Nikon S3.
EDIT: I know this is a very specific pet peeve since I'm perhaps the only one on the planet shooting a 28mm lens with a Nikon S3.
I guess that's one way to look at things. If I don't use something, I sell it. If something were to be stolen that I didn't use, it's still a monetary loss.
VinceC
Veteran
Couple of photos:
# 1 -- Vince's 11-cent solution to making sure you don't scratch glasses with a Nikon S3. The white scratch guard is some of that felt stuff you stick onto the legs of furniture so it doesn't scratch wooden floors. Pick the softest grade. Has really tough glue. The blue scratc guard is the Letter "E" from a set of my kids' stick-on foam letters. They wrote their names on their bikes, and the letters were indestructible, so dad stole a few leftovers.
# 2 -- CV minifinder on a Nikon S2 -- You have excellent framing for 28mm, 35mm and 50mm lenses. You can get a good sense of the 25mm framing, and, as Nikon HS Webmaster says, with some experience most people can well frame an 85mm lens (owning an SP, however, really helps in developing a visual sense of missing framelines).
# 1 -- Vince's 11-cent solution to making sure you don't scratch glasses with a Nikon S3. The white scratch guard is some of that felt stuff you stick onto the legs of furniture so it doesn't scratch wooden floors. Pick the softest grade. Has really tough glue. The blue scratc guard is the Letter "E" from a set of my kids' stick-on foam letters. They wrote their names on their bikes, and the letters were indestructible, so dad stole a few leftovers.
# 2 -- CV minifinder on a Nikon S2 -- You have excellent framing for 28mm, 35mm and 50mm lenses. You can get a good sense of the 25mm framing, and, as Nikon HS Webmaster says, with some experience most people can well frame an 85mm lens (owning an SP, however, really helps in developing a visual sense of missing framelines).
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BillBingham2
Registered User
I might be a bit of a strange bird, but for me it's about having lenses that turn the same direction for my SLR and RF systems. I do a lot of adjustments as I bring a camera up to my face to shoot (focus, aperture) and it's really handy to have them work the same way between systems. Change to a Nikon F/F2 (from a Nikkormat) and the shutter speed spins the say way.
Glass wise I have to say I like the look of Nikkors as much as I do Leica. Great CV glass is available for both so I'm in great shape.
I am very happy with my S3 and can recommend strongly either an S2 or an S3 as a great camera. On my S2 I had external finders for my CV25 and my Nikkor 105. The 25 finder stayed on top most of the time as the 105 was much less used. I was very impressed what I got with my 25/50 combo. It felt as good as any two lenses I had used before. I never liked 50mm lenses till I got my S2. I sold my S2 and 50 to a friend in Chicago when I got my S3-2000 & 50/1.4 Millennium combo. It's a bigger lenses but worth the size.
I was happy with my M4-P and M6, but did not feel bad about letting them go and keeping the S3-2000 when it came to that.
B2 (;->
fbf
Well-known
It's great to see everyone's opinion and suggestions.
i am not going to rush into Nikon RF like I did for leica M... I have enough bodies and lenses to fiddle with at the moment.
I might just get one body + lens combo and see how I like it.
Thanks all.
i am not going to rush into Nikon RF like I did for leica M... I have enough bodies and lenses to fiddle with at the moment.
I might just get one body + lens combo and see how I like it.
Thanks all.