Nokton 35 1.2 or Summicron 35 ASPH?

[mllanos1111]

I know these are very different lenses but they both have the look I'm after. The part I'm struggling with aside from the money is ergonomics.
I haven't found a Nokton I can try so I'm a little blind on this one.
Everyone says it's HUGE, but to me huge is my Nikkor 85 1.4.
Is it close to that? How does it feel on the ZI?
I'll be using it for street shooting so what matters to me first is the smoothness of the focus.
The Summicron is nice but a bit slower and of course more expensive. I can purchase a new one from my friend that works for a division of Leica for $2100 or I can buy a used one.
The Leica I would have to wait a bit longer in order to get all the funds together and the Nokton I could purchase now.
So is the Nokton too large for a walk around lens for street?
Thanks for responding to my ramblings.

 

[Tom A]

Yes, the 35f1.2 is big, but if you only are going to be carrying one lens/one body it is OK. The 35f2 Asph is bigger than the old 35f2 IV and quite a bit heavier. As you say, they are two different lenses, the Nokton 35f1.2 is quite remarkable for its performance - and almost 2 stops faster! There are times when f1,2 can be the difference between a "keeper" and a "shaker" at the ragged edge shutter speeds.
The Summicron 35f2.0 Asph will give you very sharp edged images, even at f2 - but then most every modern 35 can do that. The ZM Biogon 35f2.0, any of the Summicron 35's and Konicas Hexanon 35f2 will do almost as well.
If you can get a f1.2 Nokton now - I would go for it. If you find that it is too big, it has an advantage of being easy to re-sell, with little loss if you decide on the 35f2 Asph later.
I have been using my Nokton 35f1.2 on my ZI for a while. I find that the "stock" hood works better than the "vented" one. The diameter of the lens does cause it to show a bit in the finder, but with the standard hood less so.

 

[kipkeston]

nokton and a skopar gets my vote

 

[back alley]

are you concerned about size for fear of losing your stealthiness?
if so, i wouldn't worry too much. when i go out with my sony a300 digital no one seems to notice me any more than when i have the zi and tiny 35/2.8 on it. (my choice for a 35)

go for the nokton as it seems to have taken on a cult status and i figure that that many folks can't be wrong.

joe

 

[Nando]

I have both because I was able to get a Nokton and Summicron-ASPH for less than the Summilux-ASPH by itself. In my opinion, Nokton works well on a lighter Bessa body than on a heavier M. The ZI is lighter than an M, right? The Nokton and my Bessa-T with the metal CV 35mm finder is a match made in heaven! I normally use the Summicron most of the time and only take the Nokton when I know I will need its low-light capabilities. I've taken the Nokton out during the day many times and the size never bothered me much. I think that most dSLR's with their kit lenses are bigger than my Bessa-T and Nokton 1.2.

I could live with a Nokton by itself. It performs beautifully at every aperture. It is big for an RF lens and its nice to have a smaller 35mm or 28mm when you don't feel like carrying the Beastly Nokton. Instead of a Summicron-ASPH you might want to consider a Nokton 1.2 paired with a 35mm Skopar as suggested above or a 35mm Biogon-C.

 

[ferider]

Huge for the Nokton means intruding about 1/3rd into your 35mm frameline on a normal M body. For me this is not acceptable.

The Summilux/Summicron ASPH are astonishingly good lenses. Their high resolution is well documented. I have yet to see an MTF chart for the Nokton or a comparison between it and the Summilux. It's mostly Nokton owners that tell you qualitatively that performance of the two lenses is equivalent. And yes, in this league MTF charts do matter to me, in addition to bokeh, etc.

If the budget matters, by all means get the Nokton. If it doesn't get both and see for yourself. In the end it's a very personal decision.

Roland.

 

[Keith]

Huge for the Nokton means intruding about 1/3rd into your 35mm frameline on a normal M body. For me this is not acceptable.

The Summilux ASPH is an astonishingly good lens. Its high resolution is well documented. I have yet to see an MTF chart for the Nokton or a comparison between the two lenses. It's mostly Nokton owners that tell you qualitatively that performance of the two lenses is equivalent. And yes, in this league MTF charts do matter to me, in addition to bokeh, etc.

If the budget matters, by all means get the Nokton. If it doesn't get both and see for yourself. In the end it's a very personal decision.

Roland.

Maybe on a normal M body but not on the Ikon ... I was curious and put the Nokton on my Zeiss and was surprised to see that it it's only just visible. A tenth at the most!

On my M2 you see a lot more of it but definitely not a third and the M2 seems to be my prefered body for this lens now.

 

[Rafael]

On my M2 you see a lot more of it but definitely not a third and the M2 seems to be my prefered body for this lens now.

I don't think that Roland is claiming that the Nokton blocks 1/3 of the viewfinder, but rather that it extends 1/3 into the frame (i.e. if you drew a diagonal line through the viewfinder from the bottom right to the top left, the Nokton would cover 1/3 of the line.). On my M4, the edge of the Nokton almost reaches the bottom right corner of the 135 frame. I would estimate that it covers 5/8 of the bottom right quadrant of the viewfinder.

 

[ferider]

I don't think that Roland is claiming that the Nokton blocks 1/3 of the viewfinder, but rather that it extends 1/3 into the frame (i.e. if you drew a diagonal line through the viewfinder from the bottom right to the top left, the Nokton would cover 1/3 of the line.). On my M4, the edge of the Nokton almost reaches the bottom right corner of the 135 frame. I would estimate that it covers 5/8 of the bottom right quadrant of the viewfinder.

Exactly Marc. Thanks 🙂

From flickr user fieros_suck:

on the R2a.

Of course intrusion depends on distance of lens mount and viewfinder, which is larger on M2 (I know) and even larger on the ZI (is it ?). It does not depend on magnification though.

Best,

Roland.

 

[Keith]

Exactly Marc. Thanks 🙂

From flickr user fieros_suck:

on the R2a.

Of course intrusion depends on distance of lens mount and viewfinder, which is larger on M2 (I know) and even larger on the ZI (is it ?). It does not depend on magnification though.

Best,

Roland.

You've got me measuring things now. I projected the Ikon's and the Leica's 35mm frame lines onto an A4 sheet and did the measurement. Diagonally the sheet measures 36 cm ... the Nokton's protrusion on the Ikon is 7cm and 9cm for the Leica.

I remember putting the Nokton on my R3A and was amazed at how much of the viewfinder it blotted out on that!

 

[ferider]

Cool idea, Keith. With hood or without ?

Roland.

 

[Keith]

Cool idea, Keith. With hood or without ?

Roland.

Without Roland ... I seldom use the hood on the Nokton and it never seems to cause a problem with flare ... it would add onother couple of centimeters though!

Those Ikons have a damned impressive viewfinder ... and the M2 is not far behind it!

 

[Bill Blackwell]

I know these are very different lenses but they both have the look I'm after...

This statement confuses me. You couldn't have picked two modern lenses more diverse from one another. Assuming you are just using your words loosely - very loosely - then on the whole I would agree with Tom. The Nokton is nearly two stops faster and it will render a more traditional (with less contrast) look for your street shots compared to the Asph Summicron.

Just for the heck of it, exactly what "look" were you referring to?

 

[mllanos1111]

Well yes I did write this up in a hurry and I did a poor job of explaining.
I've been looking at tons of pictures from both lenses and I like the way these lenses render the image as far as contrast, Bokeh and color from the color shots I've seen as well.
I mostly shoot B&W but on occasion I do shoot color.

This statement confuses me. You couldn't have picked two modern lenses more diverse from one another. Assuming you are just using your words loosely - very loosely - then on the whole I would agree with Tom. The Nokton is nearly two stops faster and it will render a more traditional (with less contrast) look for your street shots compared to the Asph Summicron.

Just for the heck of it, exactly what "look" were you referring to?

 

[mllanos1111]

Thanks everyone for all the comments this really does help clear things up.
Tom your always very helpful!
I'm going to try out the Nokton and go from there, if for some reason it doesnt work for me I wont lose much. I look at it as an inexpensive rental.

Thanks

 

[35mmdelux]

FWIW: William Eggleston shoots with the 35/1.2 Nokton (silver). I know this piece of trivia and a dime wont get me a cup-o-java.

 

[mllanos1111]

I'm going to pick up the Nokton and see how it handles for me. I've had some wonderful lenses but some of them just didnt feel right to me. Sometimes the focus was too stiff, I'll see how this one feels.
Thanks

 

[noimmunity]

I seldom use the hood on the Nokton and it never seems to cause a problem with flare ... it would add onother couple of centimeters though!

Same here, Keith.
I like the way it feels and looks (chrome) on my ZI, and without the hood there is virtually no VF blockage.
A great lens and easy to use.

 

[mllanos1111]

Well I finally got my Nokton 35 1.2 and so far I love it!
I dont feel it's too big since I'm use to SLR lenses it feels like a 50mm to me.
I've only shot a couple rolls with it so far but I like what I'm seeing.

 

[cmogi10]

I remember the Nokton having a really long focus throw, is that correct?