Opinions on a black paint M2?

[Rogrund]

This black paint M2 is to be sold at a Swedish camera auction. The serial # matches a M2 in black paint, but I still wonder if it's original. I'm no expert on the subject, but I think the wear looks more like chrome than the beautiful brassing usually seen on these cameras. Or maybe it's not worn down to the brass?

I know there are some experts out there, what do you think?

 

[maddoc]

I am no expert at all but that looks like black paint over silver-chrome to me ... Normally it should look like brass. Also, the self-timer lever and frame-lever look heavily worn while the top-plate has only a few scratches ?

 

[Parker51]

Don't worry , It's BRASS under the black painting...
I have two of these beauties .
Everything seems OK , but to be sure that every parts are original , we need more pictures.
But if the price is Ok for you...Go ! .
Black paint M2 is ,for me , the most beautiful camera ever made by Leica....
Good Luck
Claude

 

[SimonSawSunlight]

the picture seems very desaturated, probably looks different in reality.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Yes, it might actually be a black and white photo.

 

[Rogrund]

Yes, it might actually be a black and white photo.

If it weren't for the red dot on the lens mount!

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I'm sure that was added in post ;-)

 

[Sparrow]

load the image into Photoshop and check the RBG values of the lens mount and worn patches with the paint-dipper thing, that should tell you

 

[Erik van Straten]

It looks genuine to me. For one reason or another, Sweden seems to be a big source for black M2's.
However the chrome screws in the bayonet-ring are damaged. That's a sign of incompetent repair. Also the four screws in the vulcanite are not lacquered as they should. They seem to be replaced. In any case the camera will need a CLA.
If the price isn't too high - less than EUR 2000 - it is however a big opportunity to get a fine, rare camera.

Erik.

 

[Rogrund]

It looks genuine to me. For one reason or another, Sweden seems to be a big source for black M2's.
However the chrome screws in the bayonet-ring are damaged. That's a sign of incompetent repair. Also the four screws in the vulcanite are not lacquered as they should. They seem to be replaced. In any case the camera will need a CLA.
If the price isn't too high - less than EUR 2000 - it is however a big opportunity to get a fine, rare camera.

Erik.

Thanks Erik, I was hoping you would chime in! Yes, I believe black M2's were popular in Sweden back in the old days. Don't know why.

Back to the chrome-like color that shows underneath the paint: have you seen this on other black paint M2's?

Thanks also to everyone else for your answers!

 

[Erik van Straten]

I think it's brass. De picture is very discolored. Maybe I have in my archives a black M2 from the same batch.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Yes, I have found one: 1043971.

This is more the color the picture should have.

Regards,

Erik.

 

[wilt]

Tom Abrahamsson apparently got them issued by one of the Swedish newspapers he worked for in the 1960's.
http://www.cameraquest.com/TAnotcoll.htm

Yes, I believe black M2's were popular in Sweden back in the old days. Don't know why.

Antti, du verkar ha en dyr passion på gång!

 

[Rogrund]

Antti, du verkar ha en dyr passion på gång!

Haha! Jag ska inte ha en svart M2, jag ska inte ha en svart M2...

 

[lewis44]

I copied the photo and kicked up the saturation and no other adjustments in Photoshop and it comes up brass. Image was just de-saturated

 

[Rogrund]

I copied the photo and kicked up the saturation and no other adjustments in Photoshop and it comes up brass. Image was just de-saturated

OK, thanks!

 

[SimonSawSunlight]

"I'm gonna do the 'I told you so dance'..."

 

[Rogrund]

"I'm gonna do the 'I told you so dance'..."

I know, I know, you were right!

 

[Tom A]

In the 50's and early 60's the newspapers bought cameras for their shooters. They would go to Brandt Optik (the importer) and "bulk buy" M's. After some time they realized that the photographers tended to treat the cameras differently than their private ones. At the time Sweden was one of Leica's prime markets = particularly for pro-stuff. Brandt had enough "pull" to order special runs of M's - including 51 double stroke M3's in black paint and with MP steel gears in them. For a long time these old press cameras were cheap as they looked truly beat up (and usually were) - black paint M4 $80, black paint M2's with Leicavit MP's at $130-150, black paint M3's $100-120. Some of the lenses were well priced too, Summilux 50 bl/p $100 and I think I paid about $80 for a black paint 35f2 vI in 1962. It was often cheaper to buy another user than to fix it anyway.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Brandt had enough "pull" to order special runs of M's - including 51 double stroke M3's in black paint and with MP steel gears in them. For a long time these old press cameras were cheap as they looked truly beat up (and usually were) - black paint M4 $80, black paint M2's with Leicavit MP's at $130-150, black paint M3's $100-120.

It is however strange that I've seen a lot of black M2's from Sweden, but never any beaten up black double stroke M3's. In black paint Leica-land 51 specimens is quite a lot.

Erik.