OT: I'm ticked off - newspaper credit missing

[bmattock]

OK, so this weekend, I shot a banquet for the city of Wilson, they had an awards ceremony. The deal was, I shoot the grip-n-grin and background attendees from a shot list and whatever else I can figure out, the city gets the photos to use to promote the event however they wish - no charge. They set up a booth for me to shoot souvenir photos and I could charge whatever I wanted for those - and keep the profit.

To do the thing right, I had to contract with another photog, (one whom I owed a favor anyway) and of course my wife helped to. We busted our butts, it was a lot of hard work.

Afterwards, I was approached by a reporter from the local paper - their photog had not shown up, could she have copies of my photos? I told her to check with the city, since I had contracted with them. The city said fine, give her whatever she wants. I burned a couple of CD's on Sunday, and the reporter came over and got them. I made sure she understood - wrote it down - that all the files beginning with "DSC" were taken by my co-photog, all the files beginning with the letters "IMG" were taken by me.

She called me up this morning - she did not understand how to read a CD-ROM and was reading me the file sizes, asking what they were photos of. Yikes. She also asked if I had happened to take notes and did I have the award recipients' names. My wife told her that we take photos - reporters take names. Duh.

I emailed her a complete list of the winner's photo file names and again stressed who took which photos so that my co-photog would get credit if her photo was used in the paper.

Paper came out this afternoon. They used my co-photog's photo. No credit. Ah, come on!

I've been doing this for about a year now. I've had about a dozen photos of my own in the paper. Some have been credited, some not. I've never been paid for any of them, but then, I never solicited payment, either. In a couple of cases, I've been approached by the paper and asked if I have photos of the event they can use, and I've always said yes.

Now, I'm embarrassed. My co-photographer has one of her photos in the paper (and hers were better than mine, no doubt about it), and no credit at all. Well, we split the take from the souvenir photos, but this was a seperate deal with the city's blessing. That sucks.

Well that's it. Just had to vent. Any advice from those who have sold photos to newspapers?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

My co-photographer's photo:

http://www.mattocksphotography.com/wilson_human_resources_awards_banquet/pages/dsc_0321.jpg.jpg.html

As it appeared in the paper today:

http://www.wilsondaily.com/Wil_region/Local_News/285617775918794.php

 

[cp_ste.croix]

That blows Bill. I've no advice, just best wishes. I hope this gets resolved well...

 

[doubs43]

Bill, IMO Frank is correct; you should have some sort of written agreement with the paper. They approach it as a business and so should you.

Walker

 

[r-brian]

You could contact the paper and inform them of this oversight. They can always run the picture with credit given as a correction. I've seen this done before.

Brian

 

[bmattock]

You should have signed an agreement.

I agree that would be ideal, but what sort of agreement? I doubt the reporter is an 'agent' of the paper - she would have no authority to bind the newspaper. I could be wrong. And what would an agreement like this say?

You're probably right - I just don't have any real idea how to go about it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

You could contact the paper and inform them of this oversight. They can always run the picture with credit given as a correction. I've seen this done before.

Brian

I probably will drop the reporter a note. She seems a little ditzy, to be honest. But even if they run a correction, it's not the same.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Finder]

Well, you said the pictures belonged to the city and to get permission from them. The paper did and you handed over the photos. I think you are out of luck on that one. But your friend has bragging rights the paper used her picture.

 

[bob cole]

credit for the photos

credit for the photos

OK, so this weekend, I shot a banquet for the city of Wilson, they had an awards ceremony. The deal was, I shoot the grip-n-grin and background attendees from a shot list and whatever else I can figure out, the city gets the photos to use to promote the event however they wish - no charge. They set up a booth for me to shoot souvenir photos and I could charge whatever I wanted for those - and keep the profit.

To do the thing right, I had to contract with another photog, (one whom I owed a favor anyway) and of course my wife helped to. We busted our butts, it was a lot of hard work.

Afterwards, I was approached by a reporter from the local paper - their photog had not shown up, could she have copies of my photos? I told her to check with the city, since I had contracted with them. The city said fine, give her whatever she wants. I burned a couple of CD's on Sunday, and the reporter came over and got them. I made sure she understood - wrote it down - that all the files beginning with "DSC" were taken by my co-photog, all the files beginning with the letters "IMG" were taken by me.




______________________________

She called me up this morning - she did not understand how to read a CD-ROM and was reading me the file sizes, asking what they were photos of. Yikes. She also asked if I had happened to take notes and did I have the award recipients' names. My wife told her that we take photos - reporters take names. Duh.

I emailed her a complete list of the winner's photo file names and again stressed who took which photos so that my co-photog would get credit if her photo was used in the paper.

Paper came out this afternoon. They used my co-photog's photo. No credit. Ah, come on!

I've been doing this for about a year now. I've had about a dozen photos of my own in the paper. Some have been credited, some not. I've never been paid for any of them, but then, I never solicited payment, either. In a couple of cases, I've been approached by the paper and asked if I have photos of the event they can use, and I've always said yes.

Now, I'm embarrassed. My co-photographer has one of her photos in the paper (and hers were better than mine, no doubt about it), and no credit at all. Well, we split the take from the souvenir photos, but this was a seperate deal with the city's blessing. That sucks.

Well that's it. Just had to vent. Any advice from those who have sold photos to newspapers?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

My co-photographer's photo:

http://www.mattocksphotography.com/wilson_human_resources_awards_banquet/pages/dsc_0321.jpg.jpg.html

As it appeared in the paper today:

http://www.wilsondaily.com/Wil_region/Local_News/285617775918794.php

______________________________________________________________

bill, as everyone said here, the photographer deserves a credit line and the best you can get now --and most papers are very fair about it -- is a correction...However, photographers like you must recognize -- despite your remark that you're just the photographer -- that editors prefer to identify everybody in pictures and you should remember next time to get the names of those you photograph and always double-check the names...Mary could be Mari or Marye and Alex could be Alix etc. and remember to identify them left to right... for example, Joseph G. Brown [with dark glasses], Alice Jones (left, rear], etc. Remember, you won't be there when the caption writer is writing the caption for publication...And, too, he [or she] is only human and will be much more likely to remember to credit the photographer -- if the photographer helped with the details...As a reporter for one of the best newspapers in the country I have been on assignment with dozens of photographers and every single one got the details him (and) herself...Remember also, need I say, to be brief and be nice about your credit line...

 

[bmattock]

Well, you said the pictures belonged to the city and to get permission from them. The paper did and you handed over the photos. I think you are out of luck on that one. But your friend has bragging rights the paper used her picture.

The photos were not mine to give away - the city had indeed contracted with me to be there. But I (and my partner) did indeed take them - and deserve the photo credit.

However, I see your point.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

______________________________________________________________

bill, as everyone said here, the photographer deserves a credit line and the best you can get now --and most papers are very fair about it -- is a correction...However, photographers like you must recognize -- despite your remark that you're just the photographer -- that editors prefer to identify everybody in pictures and you should remember next time to get the names of those you photograph and always double-check the names...Mary could be Mari or Marye and Alex could be Alix etc. and remember to identify them left to right... for example, Joseph G. Brown [with dark glasses], Alice Jones (left, rear], etc. Remember, you won't be there when the caption writer is writing the caption for publication...And, too, he [or she] is only human and will be much more likely to remember to credit the photographer -- if the photographer helped with the details...As a reporter for one of the best newspapers in the country I have been on assignment with dozens of photographers and every single one got the details him (and) herself...Remember also, need I say, to be brief and be nice about your credit line...

Thanks for the information - I am amazed that the photogs you worked with were able to get the names of each of their subjects. We (the two of us) shot 380 frames in one two-hour banquet. And while we could have made notes on the shots we took prior to the event starting, I seriously doubt we could have gotten even a brief word with each of the award recipients while the event was going on. As soon as it ended, everybody headed for the door at full velocity - I was busy shooting the souvenir shots and could not assist. I don't doubt what you say is true - I'm just in awe and not sure how we could have done that. Any thoughts?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[dadsm3]

Seems to be a lot more common than most people think.....one would think they'd be careful about this kind of thing. My brother was freelancing for a large newspaper up here in Canada. Despite being paid a pittance for both photos and articles, on one occasion his editor actually took credit for a story and pics of his, then she refused to answer his emails. Finally, after a few threats he quietly got his money, no corrections or apologies. Rude and unprofessional to say the least.
Unless you're in the Guild (north of the 49th, anyways) it seems you're just a pee-on. Anyone from Ontario who'd like the name of the paper and the editor can PM me....
Mike

 

[bob cole]

More on crediting pix

More on crediting pix

Thanks for the information - I am amazed that the photogs you worked with were able to get the names of each of their subjects. We (the two of us) shot 380 frames in one two-hour banquet. And while we could have made notes on the shots we took prior to the event starting, I seriously doubt we could have gotten even a brief word with each of the award recipients while the event was going on. As soon as it ended, everybody headed for the door at full velocity - I was busy shooting the souvenir shots and could not assist. I don't doubt what you say is true - I'm just in awe and not sure how we could have done that. Any thoughts?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Bill, if you took 380 pix, you obviously didn't have time for much else than snapping pix...in the old days, Associated Press, United Press and others took one or, maybe, two 4x5 plates and ran to get them developed and on their way to around the world... My photographer took, perhaps, four or five 35mm pix, so it was easy...You have to try not to get yourself into such a bind...I also forgot to mention that your job--besides identifying every subject -- is to also say...at the 4th of July Barbecue in Fort Henry Park or In front of McDonalds at 12th Avenue and Christopher Boulevard, Pittsburgh, Pa. credit: Oscar Glucks, Acme Farm Bureau ....regards, bob {and paste it to the back of each and every pix} I may be a bit dated on saying that you paste to the back of each pix but you have to figure out a way to caption each pix, #1, #2, #3, etc. so that the writer has all the details and won't be swearing out loud that the photographer ought to be tarred and feathered for screwing up...

 

[bmattock]

Bill, if you took 380 pix, you obviously didn't have time for much else than snapping pix...in the old days, Associated Press, United Press and others took one or, maybe, two 4x5 plates and ran to get them developed and on their way to around the world... My photographer took, perhaps, four or five 35mm pix, so it was easy...You have to try not to get yourself into such a bind...I also forgot to mention that your job--besides identifying every subject -- is to also say...at the 4th of July Barbecue in Fort Henry Park or In front of McDonalds at 12th Avenue and Christopher Boulevard, Pittsburgh, Pa. credit: Oscar Glucks, Acme Farm Bureau ....regards, bob {and paste it to the back of each and every pix}

Well, we're new at this, so bound to make mistakes. All photos taken were done with DSLRs. I didn't deliver prints to the newspaper, I gave them CD's. Each image had a EXIF watermark with our copyright and 'author' id embedded in them, and of course my hand-written note and followup email further stated the same thing. And of course, we did get the event name, etc. Remember, the reporter was there also - she was taking notes. I guess that's why we were amazed that she didn't know the names of the award recipients. Well, I have a lot to learn, obviously.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bob cole]

Well, we're new at this, so bound to make mistakes. All photos taken were done with DSLRs. I didn't deliver prints to the newspaper, I gave them CD's. Each image had a EXIF watermark with our copyright and 'author' id embedded in them, and of course my hand-written note and followup email further stated the same thing. And of course, we did get the event name, etc. Remember, the reporter was there also - she was taking notes. I guess that's why we were amazed that she didn't know the names of the award recipients. Well, I have a lot to learn, obviously.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

bill, as I remember your original note, you two fotogs took 380 pix for a client and you later got permission to give copies to a reporter who had not been with you for the pix...The better way would have been for you and the reporter--next time -- to stay together so that she could take notes and you could give her [or him] say six pix...I don't believe anyone on a newpaper --on deadline -- has the time to go over 380 pix...As a sidelight, many years ago Margaret Bourke-White, one of the first fotogs for Life Maqgazine came back from an assignment with hundreds of pictures and threw Life's darkroom into turmoil for a very long time...I still don't know how they managed to do more than print the photographs and get as much as they could from her for the few pix they ultimately published...I don't see how anyone could take so many pix and also record what was being taken...When I was in college a long time ago, I worked along the sidelines of football games writing down the plays a UP photographer snapped...After five or six plates, he was gone...He would send them by carrier pigeon from Austin, Tex., to his office in San Antonio [and, for safety, also send them from the Austin bureau by some photo process[...regards, bob

 

[bmattock]

Bob, gotcha. Thanks for the advice! I do want to say that the reporter approached me after the event was over to ask for the photos, since her staff photog had pulled a no-show. So although I knew she was there at the event, I didn't know who she was with or that she'd be asking me for photos. All very last-minute. Anyway, I'm better now. I just wanted to grumble about my photo partner not getting the credit for her photo while she was there at my behest.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Byuphoto]

Bill, always charge always make them sign a contract stating what the uses will be and always make sure you get the credit. As many of you know I am a pro wedding photographer but this incident happened when i wa there as a guest. I had my Leica M4-2 and the 50 f2 Summicron at dfriends wedding. i was shooting a roll of Fuji press 800 as no flash was allowed. The "pros" camera went haywire and when she got back to edit there were no shots. She paniced and called me to see if she could use my photos but wanted to do them under her name so the client would not know she had screwed up. Can you believe her nerve. I told her I would give her the photos for the price I charge for one wedding and my studio got credit for the work. She got her photos but I got her money and two referrels. Always have a standard form made up for the uses of your photos.

 

[VinceC]

>>My wife told her that we take photos - reporters take names<<

I worked in newpapers for 20 years. As mentioned above, it's common professional practice -- essential really -- that a photojournalist identifies everyone in his/her photographs for publication in an editorial product such as a newspaper. It's a good discipline process. With digital, it's also not as hard as it used to be. And it gives you a lot more control over your work. An editor would HATE receiving 380 images on a CD identified only by the camera's image tag number. An editor would LOVE receiving 5-to-10 well-chosen images by email, clearly marked as jpegs with file names that make sense and accompanying caption information for each image that ends with "Photo by Bill Mattock". In the above example, once you got the okay from the city, the credit line should have read something like "City of Wilson photo by XXXX" or "photo by XXXXX, courtesy of the city of Wilson."

Still, it's very reasonable to politely contact the newspaper editor and ask for a correction. Say you'd like the correction so that it can accompany your tear sheet and let them know you'd be interested in further work, as they apparently had to deal with an unreliable photographer who didn't show up for that particular assignment.

 

[bmattock]

Bill, always charge always make them sign a contract stating what the uses will be and always make sure you get the credit.

I appreciate the advice. And, I am not a lawyer. But I do know that in order for there to be a contract, both parties must have 'agency' - that is, they must have the legal right to bind their respective employers by signing a contract. I obviously have agency - I am a sole proprietor. I could be wrong - but I very much doubt that a reporter has agency for a newspaper - hence, she could not have signed if she had wanted to. In fact, she most likely would refused to have signed, referring the matter to her boss - and that would have been the end of it. I'm not sure that waving around a contract while I was standing hip-deep in clients waiting for their souvenir shot would have worked.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

>>My wife told her that we take photos - reporters take names<<

I worked in newpapers for 20 years. As mentioned above, it's common professional practice -- essential really -- that a photojournalist identifies everyone in his/her photographs for publication in an editorial product such as a newspaper.

I believe you, really I do. But I was not there as a PJ, I was there as an event photographer. We were hired by the city to take 'lots' of people shots, work off a shot list, and get photos of each of the award winners as they did the grip-n-grin. I wasn't planning to do a write up - the city obviously knew to whom they gave the awards - they just wanted the photos.

The thing with the newspaper was purely accidental, and tacked onto the end of the event, as I mentioned.

It's a good discipline process. With digital, it's also not as hard as it used to be. And it gives you a lot more control over your work. An editor would HATE receiving 380 images on a CD identified only by the camera's image tag number.

You make a very good point. However, I asked the reporter what she wanted. She said "just give me what you have." So I did.

An editor would LOVE receiving 5-to-10 well-chosen images by email, clearly marked as jpegs with file names that make sense and accompanying caption information for each image that ends with "Photo by Bill Mattock". In the above example, once you got the okay from the city, the credit line should have read something like "City of Wilson photo by XXXX" or "photo by XXXXX, courtesy of the city of Wilson."

Excellent advice again. I will work on that - in the future, I will give them only what I think they would like to get, and make sure the names are included. Of course, if I don't know the names (because I was taking the photos), then the newspaper gets nada.

Still, it's very reasonable to politely contact the newspaper editor and ask for a correction. Say you'd like the correction so that it can accompany your tear sheet and let them know you'd be interested in further work, as they apparently had to deal with an unreliable photographer who didn't show up for that particular assignment.

I'm not looking for a job with the paper, but I'd love to build a relationship with them as a free-lancer - and SELL a photo or two. I know enough that if I get some shots of an accident or a bank robbery or sumpfing, I get the details and pass them along with the photos.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[VinceC]

Bill,
Thanks for the notes. I fully understand where you're coming from as the event photographer.

Newspaper folk, like the rest of us, are overworked and underpaid and, to top it off, all their mistakes and omissions are out there for all the world to see. As you found out, most reporters know squat about photography (and it's their loss, because everyone looks at the photos, but who REALLY reads those stories word-for-word?) so it's usually best to ask the reporter for his/her editor's point of contact, usually email will suffice. Of course, with a smaller paper, oftentimes everyone on staff does a little bit of everything.