Outdoor base exposure change?

[philcycles]

In the old days we used 1/film speed at f16.
Over the past 2 years it now seems to be 1/film speed at f11, a full stop[ different.
The negs and slides look good. Slides taken in Hawaii and The American Southwest within 1 week of each other need the same f11 exposure.
Comment?
Phil Brown

 

[Thanimal]

I've been wondering about that recently as well. Here in Maine I've even been using 1/film-speed at f8, or f11 when I last went to Mexico. Looking through my digital photos from sunny days seems to confirm that. What's the deal, I wonder?

 

[Roger Hicks]

In 'the old days' (pre-1960) film was rated a stop slower.

Since then, 'sunny 11' has always been a better bet than 'sunny 16' for neg films. It's just that some people have taken a long time to catch up, and others have become more critical.

Also, shutters are often more accurate, and multi-sector meters work differently.

Finally, with digi, there's a difference between prints and on-screen pics.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Brian Puccio]

Odd. I just shot Sunny 16 on Death Valley and Vegas last week since I forgot my light meter at home and the slides look good.

 

[MartinP]

With the bright light of that place it would be like shooting over snow or white sand - and so a stop more closed than more 'ordinary' full sunlight, and there you are back with a good result!

 

[Roger Hicks]

Odd. I just shot Sunny 16 on Death Valley and Vegas last week since I forgot my light meter at home and the slides look good.

Dear Brian,

Note 'for neg films' above.

Slide: optimum exposure keyed to highlight.

Neg: optimum exposure keyed to shadow.

Long tonal range (e.g. Death Valley, Las Vegas (New Mexico or the inferior one?) = different optimum exposure for slide and neg.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Rob-F]

"Sunny eleven and a half" has often been a good bet for me. "Sunny 16" was right, here in the midwest, just a few days ago, on a clear blue day, with frontal sunlight. But I have had some underexposure failures at altitude in Colorado on similar clear blue sky and frontal lighting days. Some things to bear in mind:

--A scene that is more reflective than average will cause the meter to close down too much.

--A bright sky, especially a bright overcast one, may cause the meter to close down too much (over-react).

Sunny 16, Sunny 11.5, are for frontally lit subjects. Side lighting will cost a half stop to a full stop. Even a 45 degree light may call for opening up a bit.

I feel the lesson here is to use the meter carefully, and not rely too much on auto-exposure.

 

[Brian Puccio]

With the bright light of that place it would be like shooting over snow or white sand - and so a stop more closed than more 'ordinary' full sunlight, and there you are back with a good result!

Dear Brian,

Note 'for neg films' above.

Slide: optimum exposure keyed to highlight.

Neg: optimum exposure keyed to shadow.

Long tonal range (e.g. Death Valley, Las Vegas (New Mexico or the inferior one?) = different optimum exposure for slide and neg.

Cheers,

R.

Martin and Roger, I'm glad I got lucky then. (Though for really awesome photos, I cheated and bracketed just in case.)

For the record, it was the inferior one. Death Valley was much more interesting than Vegas.

 

[charjohncarter]

In 'the old days' (pre-1960) film was rated a stop slower.

Since then, 'sunny 11' has always been a better bet than 'sunny 16' for neg films. It's just that some people have taken a long time to catch up, and others have become more critical.

Also, shutters are often more accurate, and multi-sector meters work differently.

Finally, with digi, there's a difference between prints and on-screen pics.

Cheers,

W.

Darn, I thought it might be global cooling.

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

at the beach, f16 works for me.
however how would you take a
scene like below ?

i took this I believe at f8 or f11
to bring out more details in the shade.

Leica M2 with 35 Cron
Trix 400 in D76

 

[Roger Hicks]

Martin and Roger, I'm glad I got lucky then. (Though for really awesome photos, I cheated and bracketed just in case.)

Dear Brian,

VERY wise!

Cheers,

R.

 

[FrankS]

I think that for slide film, sunny16 still works as it always has.
For neg film, it's better to be 4 or 5 stops over exposed than 1 stop under. (Unless one is trying for that gloomy under exposed look.)

 

[falleri]

I had the feeling something was off with the sunny 16 rule as well, no actually I thought it was me. I kept shooting with that rule in mind, then every once in a while I'd use the meter and get totally confused. I thought I was misreading the light. This explains a lot. I'll pay more attention from now on to see if that's what it is.. and if I have to adjust to a sunny 11.

 

[Roger Hicks]

From http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps basics expoguide.html -- or, Exposure guide (when you haven't a meter, from Basics)

It doesn't take long to learn to judge exposures very accurately by eye, especially if you can get hold of some sort of exposure meter. Look around you; guess the exposure; check it with the meter. It really won't take long.

But if you don't have a meter handy, use the table below. Read the four Health Warnings first.

. . . .

Paradoxically, this will often work better with slide films than with negatives; with a negative film, you may lose detail in the dark areas (shadows) of your pictures. This is why the recommendations below are closer to 'sunny 11', though in fact the discrepancy between the film speeds and the normally available shutter speeds is such that it's close to a 'sunny eleven-and-a-third' rule.

Cheers,

R.

 

[charjohncarter]

Roger that is a great guide, and a guide that explains the 'whys' of everything. I also loved Frances' comment about the beach walkers.

 

[jordanatkins]

This makes me feel bad, because I screwed up and shot my first 20 or so exposures on my Pen F suing sunny 16, but I forgot what speed film I was using. I shot it at 100 instead of 400. Going to be badly underexposed. Oh well, I guess I have 50 more to make up for it!

EDIT: By the way, sunny 16 or 11 depends on where you are in the world. If you live in England, it's always been sunny 11. In California, sunny 16 for sure.

 

[David Hughes]

The sunny 16 rule is, like a meter reading, only a starting point. Then you think about it. There are few typical scenes where the straight f/16 approach would work.

When I was at school, a long, long time ago I used the little chart that came with the film or else a calculator. And I was using slide film. Looking at them now I wonder where the idea for sunny16 came from. It doesn't even allow for the difference between summer and winter for a start...

Regards, David

 

[sevo]

I wonder where the idea for sunny16 came from. It doesn't even allow for the difference between summer and winter for a start...

There is no practical difference in sun intensity during bright daylight by summer or winter. Of course, the number of full daylight hours will vary with season and latitude (from a constant 11/13h relation in the tropics down to a annual oscillation between 24 and 0h in the arctic zone). And not that many of us live in deserts, but somewhere where light conditions will be more often determined by weather than by sun position.