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martin s

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I live in Germany, I barely use PayPal. I think the fee is rather ridiculous. Also, eBay makes me use PayPal. Again, ridiculous. Sadly I have to use PayPal now, could someone a little more experienced give me a quick summary what to look out for? It might help other Europeans, too.

I've searched a little - never send to unconfirmed addresses seems to be rule number one. Anything else?

Am I at risk as a seller?

martin
 
Yes. Seller's carry all the risk. Paypal/Ebay can hold payment for up to 21 days, until you get positive feedback, for example. If you can sell differently (like via RFF), I recommend it. If you need Ebay, ship with receipt signature requirement, and, by preference, avoid going out of your home territory (since item receipt is harder to track, when you ship to Asia, for instance).

Roland.
 
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I assume you are not talking about using paypal outside of ebay.

A scenario: buyer sends money via paypal. you send the parcel. If there is a problem with the buyer he has the parcel and you are not able to get the money.
 
I was thinking outside of eBay, yes. That is one god awful system. I'll call there tomorrow and check what they have to say.

martin
 
What I said only applies to Paypal used with Ebay. Used independently of Ebay, it's pretty OK, Martin.

Roland.
 
But outside of ebay it's just an expensive money transfer system. A money transaction can not be reversed. No risk for the seller.
 
I've never had a problem with PayPal either way: private or ebay transactions. One thing I'm sceptical about is requests from private sellers for a buyer to mark the payment as "gift". I suppose that is to avoid paying fees, but for the buyer that seems to negate any protectionthat paypal might offer if the sale goes bad in some way.
 
do a search for pay pal and "problems" all you need to read is there. I've stopped using it for many of the reasons you'll see plus the ToS are one sided and onerous in my opinion.
 
I'm probably tempting fate here, but Paypal is actually not that bad, apart from the heavy fees.

There are basically a few hoops you have to jump through, if you have jumped through them, you will be fine. A rough summary:

As long as you can prove that you sent the item, and it was received, with some online evidence (i.e. tracking number on DHL, etc. website) you will be protected.

Above a certain value (£150 in the UK, might be different in DE) you have to additionally have a signature upon delivery.

If the item is low value, don't worry at all. Most people are honest and things rarely get lost in the post. For items of small value, even if sent by regular mail, you can generally claim back from the post office if the worst happens.

This is not really a problem, because for higher value items you will not be sending by regular post anyway...




Confirmed addresses apply only to a very few countries, UK and USA for sure, no idea about Canada. So basically it's irrelevant, especially if you are selling on ebay.de where many customers will be from the EU in general, out of which only British residents could possibly have confirmed addresses, and it's not like the UK has a monopoly on honesty in the EU 😉

Personally, I don't worry about it - usually, I get things sent to my work address (UK) because someone will always be there to receive a parcel, and this is an unconfirmed address - only my home address, where my cards a registered, is confirmed (confirmed address basically just means paypal has checked the delivery address is where the bank a/c, card etc. is registered to). Many people do the same as me, and request delivery to an unconfirmed address. If a member is not verified, then it is a bit more worrying.

The main things to avoid would be things like the buyer arranging their own courier, or paying by paypal but collecting in person. In both cases, you wouldn't be able to provide paypal with proof the item was shipped and received - likely, the buyer is honest, but if not...

When I moved to Germany I was really amazed by how easy bank transfer payments are - in the UK it is very awkward to make such payments. I envy the system but Paypal isn't the empire of evil it is often presented as. When I was active on ebay.de, as a seller it was great to be able to avoid paypal fees, but fairly often I received an item as a buyer not really as wonderful as it was described, and could do nothing about it. Plus you may get more international bids, pushing the price up for your items - bidders from e.g. the UK would be very unfamiliar with bank transfers, and wary of them, especially as they also cost us a lot in bank fees. Now you accept Paypal, they may bid...
 
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When I moved to Germany I was really amazed by how easy bank transfer payments are - in the UK it is very awkward to make such payments. I envy the system but Paypal isn't the empire of evil it is often presented as. When I was active on ebay.de, as a seller it was great to be able to avoid paypal fees, but fairly often I received an item as a buyer not really as wonderful as it was described, and could do nothing about it. Plus you may get more international bids, pushing the price up for your items - bidders from e.g. the UK would be very unfamiliar with bank transfers, and wary of them, especially as they also cost us a lot in bank fees. Now you accept Paypal, they may bid...

And it's getting that easy within the EURO-zone too. My bank already offers a money transfer within the complete EURO-zone without fees.
 
I've never had a problem with PayPal either way: private or ebay transactions. One thing I'm sceptical about is requests from private sellers for a buyer to mark the payment as "gift". I suppose that is to avoid paying fees, but for the buyer that seems to negate any protection that paypal might offer if the sale goes bad in some way.


Why lie for someone who might rip you off? In the US reporting a true sale as a gift is considered fraud. Not a good way to do business. If seller, ALWAYS get signature confirmation. IF its an expensive item --whether buyer or seller-- sell person to person in a safe public location.

Whenever you get into real money transactions con artists of all stripes come out of the woodwork. I found this out when I was selling my Leica MP and Noctilux. All kinds of stories and favors asked by would be buyers. Many of these knuckleheads know paypal better than you ever will -- use caution.
 
There are no buyer protections if an item is sold outside of eBay. Cute. I called them on this and that's the deal. I hate Paypal too, and would much prefer to use some form of escrow service, but those are not cheap either. So don't go thinking that if you purchase something w/ Paypal you're "protected". You aren't. And as ferider so concisely pointed out, there are precious if any protections for a seller w/ eBay or Paypal.

Paying w/ a credit card gives you some possible protections, but in my case, it doesn't. Bank of America recently sent us their new credit card rules, and a purchase has to be made within 100 miles of our home in order to contest the charges. Not bloody likely on any internet purchase.

Probably the best thing to do is spend some time communicating w/ your buyer or seller and go by your gut reaction on that eternal big question....is this someone I think I can trust. Because there are no guarantees out there that are 100%.
 
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I buy and sell on ebay (and off ebay) using paypal all of the time, with transactions going into the tens of thousands. Bottom line: it's quite safe if you follow the rules. Most of the stuff in this thread is accurate. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.
 
Bottom line: it's quite safe if you follow the rules.
This is absolutely key: read the small print and caveat emptor. It's amazing how people are constantly "burned" by PayPal, but the real problem is they can't be bothered to read the terms and conditions. Also get yourself a PayPal Security Key so your account can't be hacked.
 
In Canada the banks have been offering "inter bank" Interac debits much like paypal. You use a 'debit bank card' or even transfer from your own savings account. I've done this with most of the transactions where it's a vendor with a participating bank. This has been available for over 6 years. Never a problem to date.

However on purchase transactions with 'fresh faces' I treat these as 'caveat emptor' .
 
If your not using ebay then marking an item as a gift (and having the money taken out of your banking account) negates the transaction fee. In a private sale (outside of eBay) this carries the same risk as sending a money order, bank transaction, etc. There is nothing illegal about it because there is no legal requirement to report it as anything else.
 
In the US reporting a true sale as a gift is considered fraud.
Assuming you don't have a business license, why or how could you construe this as fraud? When I sell something on this forum I give the buyer the choice of paying me with a USPS MO, paypal +3%, or paypal as a gift with the funds taken out of the seller's banking account. The seller has the same protection whichever method he uses (pretty much relying on my honesty).
 
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