biomed
Veteran
People photography is not my forte. I am currently enrolled in a class "Photographing People" to explore this somewhat challenging (for me at least) aspect of photography. The class recently went on an assignment and I have edited my efforts to these images. I would appreciate any advice/comments.
Thank you,
Mike
Thank you,
Mike
v_roma
Well-known
I'll throw in some (hopefully) constructive criticism. I get the sense from at least some of the photos that you were trying to avoid being spotted taking the photo so you got several photos of backs or sides of people, a couple from behind objects, etc. Even if you are going for candid photos of people vs. a more traditional portrait, you probably should work on getting comfortable shooting people and shooting them from an angle where the viewer gets a better view no pun intended. I would suggest studying photos of "masters" that shoot in the same style you are going for as a starting point to figure out what they did, whether it works for you or not, etc.
I could be totally off base here, in which case disregard all of the above.
I could be totally off base here, in which case disregard all of the above.
R
rpsawin
Guest
I understand what you are dealing with and sympathize. Personally, I find the Market a difficult place to practice this type of photography due to the congestion, surly vendors, sometimes uncooperative buskers and throngs of people who wander thru your shots unaware. There may be a "friendlier" environment in which to practice.
BTW...I like what you have done so far.
Ranchu
Veteran
What you are trying to do is difficult, remember. I have personally made many, many much worse pictures than these. They seem a little tightly framed to me, and the first one I like but I think a higher angle would be better. One of the advantages of a wider lens is that you aren't as dependent on a single figure for your photo. Even if you only have one person in it, you have more context, and you can play with composition more. A large bald man with a mustache kissing a dog can probably be made appealing, but I don't know how.
biomed
Veteran
I'll throw in some (hopefully) constructive criticism. I get the sense from at least some of the photos that you were trying to avoid being spotted taking the photo so you got several photos of backs or sides of people, a couple from behind objects, etc. Even if you are going for candid photos of people vs. a more traditional portrait, you probably should work on getting comfortable shooting people and shooting them from an angle where the viewer gets a better view no pun intended.QUOTE]
Thank you. Point well taken. One musician resisted being photographed face on. Whenever a photographer approached he would turn his back and sing a song deriding people with cameras as having no creativity.
Thanks again for your input.
Mike
biomed
Veteran
Thank you. Our destination next weekend in Seattle Center - should a bit more relaxed.
Mike
biomed
Veteran
Ranchu, thanks for the advice. I probably should have used a wider lens. The man kissing the dog happened within a few feet of me. I snapped a short series of the interaction. Maybe I'll put them all together later. I like dogs, but this goes way beyond my limits.
Mike
dtcls100
Well-known
I can understand the uneasiness in taking photos of strangers in public. When I was in college almost 30 yrs ago, I was taking a photo of a fishmonger hawking his fish in an outdoor market in Philadelphia. His crazed wife came after me with a knife and swung it at me! Only got away without being stabbed because a friend yelled out just in time "Watch out!!!" as my eyes were glued to the viewfinder. After that, I became much more uneasy with photographing strangers without asking their permission.
back alley
IMAGES
i think you've done really well here, especially the first shot.
i have been doing this sort of shooting for years and some days it works and some days you go home ready to sell your cameras.
people have all sides to them...no need to shoot from the front only...depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
i did stage shooting for years and sometimes the best shots are the back of the performer and the front of the audience.
i have been doing this sort of shooting for years and some days it works and some days you go home ready to sell your cameras.
people have all sides to them...no need to shoot from the front only...depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
i did stage shooting for years and sometimes the best shots are the back of the performer and the front of the audience.
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
Mike, I think this is a fine start, and the critique so far has been sensible. Yet it's clear that you're applying fairly stringent standards to your idea of public candids, and the results are good work. If you're using your lumix gh, and hoping for candids, you might think about using a smaller body--GF or GX sized-- and practice zone/ hip shots. Or get a GR and see what Ricoh means by Snap. The DSLR bodies, even m43, and longer lenses are alienating devices. A 28/35/40 is the lens range, the smaller the better. Intimacy is the key to revelation, and taking a kind interest in a stranger is ultimately more rewarding than sneaking a souvenir of someone's unwary soul. Though I have collected my share of stolen moments, hypocrite that I am.
The advice above about asking for a photo is priceless. It will make you learn to create a portrait with candor, not posing and artifice, and with speed. And you can offer copies if the shot is good. And has been noted more than once here, people in public places seem to be entertained not threatened by a TLR. I find this is true in Eugene in the Free Speech Plaza, where there are many people with guilty or felonious consciences who are quite sensitive to being photographed by a potential narc with a DSLR, but understand somehow that an Autocord is an artistic and angelic vessel to which the only reaction is a benign smile. Except for the girl who thought it was a metal detector.
Most of all keep at it. That's the 99% solution, where one's vision emerges one image at a time.
The advice above about asking for a photo is priceless. It will make you learn to create a portrait with candor, not posing and artifice, and with speed. And you can offer copies if the shot is good. And has been noted more than once here, people in public places seem to be entertained not threatened by a TLR. I find this is true in Eugene in the Free Speech Plaza, where there are many people with guilty or felonious consciences who are quite sensitive to being photographed by a potential narc with a DSLR, but understand somehow that an Autocord is an artistic and angelic vessel to which the only reaction is a benign smile. Except for the girl who thought it was a metal detector.
Most of all keep at it. That's the 99% solution, where one's vision emerges one image at a time.
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ferider
Veteran
I much like #1, #2, and #5, Mike.
I'm a student myself, but here are my 2 cents:
First, you have to decide if you want to photograph:
a) people that are aware of you, or
b) people that are unaware of you.
For a), ask (sometimes just show your camera and smile), hang around, maybe even let them pose for you; they'll forget quickly that you are there. I personally prefer this. When I tried b) I never really liked my results. However, it can create great pictures, like accidental superpositions, good compositions, etc., not much that has to do with the actual people in the photo though. There are great experts for b) on RFF, e.g., OurmanInTangier/Simon, you might want to check in with him.
If you like a), avoid shooting people from the back. Also, take your time and get close. Once people know you are there, they usually don't mind. Be conscious about light, reflection in the eyes, DOF, etc., these are environmental portraits, and all portrait rules apply, complicated by the un-staged environment. For example, in your #1, the lamp and lit face are great. I like the shadows on the street in #5. His face is a bit too dark,and I don't care for the Mercedes head light growing out of his head. Etc.
A little example of mine if you don't mind.
All happened in seconds. Never met the lady before or after the photo. First I looked at her, showed the camera, she smiled. Then I composed, and moved to the left while she moved with me to check what I was up to. Until the balloon in the foreground and her smiling (because I was moving like hiding from her) was just right. Being a big guy with a small camera helps
Again, I personally take better people pictures when they know that I'm there. YMMV.
Roland.
I'm a student myself, but here are my 2 cents:
First, you have to decide if you want to photograph:
a) people that are aware of you, or
b) people that are unaware of you.
For a), ask (sometimes just show your camera and smile), hang around, maybe even let them pose for you; they'll forget quickly that you are there. I personally prefer this. When I tried b) I never really liked my results. However, it can create great pictures, like accidental superpositions, good compositions, etc., not much that has to do with the actual people in the photo though. There are great experts for b) on RFF, e.g., OurmanInTangier/Simon, you might want to check in with him.
If you like a), avoid shooting people from the back. Also, take your time and get close. Once people know you are there, they usually don't mind. Be conscious about light, reflection in the eyes, DOF, etc., these are environmental portraits, and all portrait rules apply, complicated by the un-staged environment. For example, in your #1, the lamp and lit face are great. I like the shadows on the street in #5. His face is a bit too dark,and I don't care for the Mercedes head light growing out of his head. Etc.
A little example of mine if you don't mind.
All happened in seconds. Never met the lady before or after the photo. First I looked at her, showed the camera, she smiled. Then I composed, and moved to the left while she moved with me to check what I was up to. Until the balloon in the foreground and her smiling (because I was moving like hiding from her) was just right. Being a big guy with a small camera helps
Again, I personally take better people pictures when they know that I'm there. YMMV.
Roland.
biomed
Veteran
biomed
Veteran
biomed
Veteran
Thanks for your input, Roland. In photo #1 I watched a space and took the shot when the action happened. Photo #5 was a very fast capture the moment shot from a weird angle. The Mercedes head light was unavoidable. I think I may have missed the shot if I repositioned the camera. I will try out some of your suggestions on the next outing.
Mike
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
It has to have something, what tells the story. Or to be funny, or provocative, at least. Some likes nice composition and light also.
Not just a framed market girl and street musician.
But I'm "no-name" here to judge.
I like it with dog, #2, above the dog and last one.
Try it on b/w film. This is where fun begins, IMO.
Not just a framed market girl and street musician.
But I'm "no-name" here to judge.
I like it with dog, #2, above the dog and last one.
Try it on b/w film. This is where fun begins, IMO.
Brian Legge
Veteran
I think some of these come across more as candid portraits than what people here may think of as street photography. I think the first photo is fantastic. It may not be a huge story telling shot but it's a beautiful, interesting, well composed and well lit image.
If the story part is appealing, a wider lens that captures more context may help. Focusing on interactions between people may also lend a bit more story to the images. Another approach is to either pick a pattern and focus on it (or look for patterns between shots when you are editing and deciding what to post). I have a few series in progress that I slowly grow when shots present themselves.
Overall, these are a fantastic start.
If the story part is appealing, a wider lens that captures more context may help. Focusing on interactions between people may also lend a bit more story to the images. Another approach is to either pick a pattern and focus on it (or look for patterns between shots when you are editing and deciding what to post). I have a few series in progress that I slowly grow when shots present themselves.
Overall, these are a fantastic start.
biomed
Veteran
Thanks, Brian. The Public Market is a tough place to shoot. It is very crowded and the lighting can be very tricky. I do tend to shoot more candid portraits and do need to include a bit more of the environment. Our next outing will be to Seattle Center. I am anticipating that photography will be a bit easier there. I will probably use a slightly wider lens. At the market I was shooting with the 25/1.4 Panaleica lens. I am going to try the Panasonic 20/1.7 and 14/2.5 lenses. If it weren't for the time constraints of the class, I would probably use one of my film cameras with a 35mm lens.
Mike
Mike
clayne
shoot film or die
Keep the first shot, kill the others. Any shot with a person's back where the person is supposed to be the subject, just instant-kill unless it's notable for other reasons. I liked the perspective and light in the first shot, and I think the composition was good. With regard to the man and dog shot - when dealing with people don't ever point a camera down. Instead always move down to your subject's level (especially important for kids). A downward shot does not have the same shared space feel and perspective as being at their level - and it almost always comes off as "thing I shot from a camera" rather than "photograph of a shared moment."
Here's a hint to getting better at this, use a wide angle lens - minimum of 24mm. Obviously I'm going to say shoot film (but I always say that), but medium is less important here (just don't go off checking your shots all the time). Anyway, the point of wide angle is not just that it provides contextually interesting photographs in busy areas, but that it forces you to get even closer to really make the shots. It's a lake of fire approach - you'll have to break the space barrier and make it obvious you're photographing things. However, it'll be beyond the barrier of "just kinda there" how things are with a 50mm or 35mm lens. In a way, that "just kinda there" can be disconcerting to your subjects - whereas it's obvious you're trying to photograph things when you use a wide angle lens properly. Now, some subjects aren't going to like you being in their space, or near the threshold of it - but they're not going to like it with a 50 or 35 either. The solution is not to get a 200mm lens and sit across the street, the solution is to accept that some people aren't going to like it and move on to the next. If you display intent - especially like you know what you're doing and that there's no timidity involved, you'll get better results. People can be like dogs sniffing fear at time - if you have no fear, they don't know what to think, if you convey it, they distrust.
In general though, I do think that photographing people has gotten significantly harder in the last 10 years. More and more negative responses to cameras in general. That's a whole different issue and one which has been discussed already outside of this thread.
The most successful thing you can attain in good people photographs is the feeling of shared space. Said shared space is also why it's the hardest thing to pull off - it requires some courage and vulnerability/openness from your subjects as well. This is a good thing because it makes good photography of people naturally hard and hence not easily accessible to all. Telephotos and other long lenses aren't a workaround either.
Another "free lunch" route would be to use a TLR - because people are usually enamored and let their guard down. Plus WLFs invoke less of the "thing pointed at me" feeling.
Here's a hint to getting better at this, use a wide angle lens - minimum of 24mm. Obviously I'm going to say shoot film (but I always say that), but medium is less important here (just don't go off checking your shots all the time). Anyway, the point of wide angle is not just that it provides contextually interesting photographs in busy areas, but that it forces you to get even closer to really make the shots. It's a lake of fire approach - you'll have to break the space barrier and make it obvious you're photographing things. However, it'll be beyond the barrier of "just kinda there" how things are with a 50mm or 35mm lens. In a way, that "just kinda there" can be disconcerting to your subjects - whereas it's obvious you're trying to photograph things when you use a wide angle lens properly. Now, some subjects aren't going to like you being in their space, or near the threshold of it - but they're not going to like it with a 50 or 35 either. The solution is not to get a 200mm lens and sit across the street, the solution is to accept that some people aren't going to like it and move on to the next. If you display intent - especially like you know what you're doing and that there's no timidity involved, you'll get better results. People can be like dogs sniffing fear at time - if you have no fear, they don't know what to think, if you convey it, they distrust.
In general though, I do think that photographing people has gotten significantly harder in the last 10 years. More and more negative responses to cameras in general. That's a whole different issue and one which has been discussed already outside of this thread.
The most successful thing you can attain in good people photographs is the feeling of shared space. Said shared space is also why it's the hardest thing to pull off - it requires some courage and vulnerability/openness from your subjects as well. This is a good thing because it makes good photography of people naturally hard and hence not easily accessible to all. Telephotos and other long lenses aren't a workaround either.
Another "free lunch" route would be to use a TLR - because people are usually enamored and let their guard down. Plus WLFs invoke less of the "thing pointed at me" feeling.
furbs
Well-known
Mike, these are much better than my first forays into photographing people! I can tell that you have a good sense of light and composition. Having those skills in place already means you can work solely on the interpersonal aspects of photographing people.
As Roland said earlier, you have to decide whether you want permission or not. Personally, I do better without permission as I seem to get more natural shots that way. The following all relates to photographing without permission.
If you believe that it's perfectly fine to photograph strangers without their permission, that will show in your confidence with your camera. 90% of street photography is in how you carry yourself. If you seem like the good-natured guy out with a camera, possibly a tourist even, randomly taking quick snaps, I doubt anyone will question you. The more you take photos on the street, the more comfortable you'll become, and the less people will notice you. A smile never hurts, especially when directed at no one in particular. Hopefully you are doing this because you enjoy it!
People don't respond well when they feel like they're being watched, especially watched for an unusual amount of time by a stranger, so pointing a camera at them while you carefully focus and compose tends not to work. Either master the autofocus on your camera or master your zone focusing skills. That way the camera only has to be at your eye for a split second while you throw a quick frame around someone. A smaller camera also helps, as people in public seem to be especially averse to anything that looks like a DSLR.
I see people like any other subjects. They're just flowers and trees that move much more quickly. Being open to photography is part and parcel with being in public nowadays, and if someone doesn't like being photographed that's their problem. I will stop photographing someone if they express that they dislike it, though that has never happened. I get much better shots when I assume that people don't mind being photographed.
As Roland said earlier, you have to decide whether you want permission or not. Personally, I do better without permission as I seem to get more natural shots that way. The following all relates to photographing without permission.
If you believe that it's perfectly fine to photograph strangers without their permission, that will show in your confidence with your camera. 90% of street photography is in how you carry yourself. If you seem like the good-natured guy out with a camera, possibly a tourist even, randomly taking quick snaps, I doubt anyone will question you. The more you take photos on the street, the more comfortable you'll become, and the less people will notice you. A smile never hurts, especially when directed at no one in particular. Hopefully you are doing this because you enjoy it!
People don't respond well when they feel like they're being watched, especially watched for an unusual amount of time by a stranger, so pointing a camera at them while you carefully focus and compose tends not to work. Either master the autofocus on your camera or master your zone focusing skills. That way the camera only has to be at your eye for a split second while you throw a quick frame around someone. A smaller camera also helps, as people in public seem to be especially averse to anything that looks like a DSLR.
I see people like any other subjects. They're just flowers and trees that move much more quickly. Being open to photography is part and parcel with being in public nowadays, and if someone doesn't like being photographed that's their problem. I will stop photographing someone if they express that they dislike it, though that has never happened. I get much better shots when I assume that people don't mind being photographed.
Photo_Smith
Well-known
I agree with Clayne in all the years I've been taking images of people I find them more relaxed with WLF either on the Rollei or Hassie.
Just focus on their eyes look up and talk while you snap, take down your barriers and they might take down theirs..
Fiona by Photo Utopia, on Flickr
Another tip is to look at other photographers portraits of people and take a base style from there and develop your own from that.
I like the work of more formal 1:1 portraits, August Sander, David Bailey etc I can see you like the humanist reportage school, Brassaï, HCB etc..
Just focus on their eyes look up and talk while you snap, take down your barriers and they might take down theirs..
Fiona by Photo Utopia, on Flickr
Another tip is to look at other photographers portraits of people and take a base style from there and develop your own from that.
I like the work of more formal 1:1 portraits, August Sander, David Bailey etc I can see you like the humanist reportage school, Brassaï, HCB etc..