camera.bear
Well-known
Take a deep breath and get comfortable, this is a little long.....
Today I drove a friend to Walmart so that he could pick up his insuline perscription. I was sitting in my car waiting for him to finish. I was in parked in a handicaped space near the entrance. I decided to play with the 590 IS that rides in my CompuDaypack. I flipped it over to b/w and started to shoot away. Having worked for a magazine, I do not take pictures of people without asking first. So NO pics of the people in the parking lot. I was snapping away at fenders and lampposts and the inside of my car and myself. The next thing I know I am being confronted by the store security and they are telling me that I can't take pictures. Well, I got a bit put off because I wasn't hurting anyone. Then here comes the store manager telling me that their policy is that no one is allowed to take pictures on store premises as it is private property. I hadn't thought of it that way as it is public access, but he was correct. I apologized and while I was putting the camera away, he informed me that there had been complaints about what I was doing and that I would have to leave or they would call the police. I advised him that I would leave once my party returned to the car.
Thinking that the incident was over, I continued to wait for my friend, but now I had two security guards watching me. One was talking to a woman who pointed my way every now and then. I waited and they waited and it was sort of like a Mexican standoff. My friend came back to the car and we drove off into the sunset, literally, as this happened a little after 6pm.
What strikes me most about the incident is not what happened, but what percipitated it. It seems that some people are paranoid about cameras, whether they are pointed at them or not. And it is not like I was hiding what I was doing or that they where in a place where there would be an expectation of privacy. Or maybe it is that they are ashamed of shopping at Walmart and don't want their friends to know. Who can tell?
This incident has left me unsettled. As a photographer, I feel that I was impinged upon; however, I respected the stores policies once I was informed of them. I also respect the rights of other individuals as I took no pictures with people in them. I think the thing that bothered me the most was having someone think that I was doing something wrong or something that would hurt them. It also bothers me how readily a person with a camera can be singled out and threatened with punitive action for duing nothing more than taking a picture in public.
Today I drove a friend to Walmart so that he could pick up his insuline perscription. I was sitting in my car waiting for him to finish. I was in parked in a handicaped space near the entrance. I decided to play with the 590 IS that rides in my CompuDaypack. I flipped it over to b/w and started to shoot away. Having worked for a magazine, I do not take pictures of people without asking first. So NO pics of the people in the parking lot. I was snapping away at fenders and lampposts and the inside of my car and myself. The next thing I know I am being confronted by the store security and they are telling me that I can't take pictures. Well, I got a bit put off because I wasn't hurting anyone. Then here comes the store manager telling me that their policy is that no one is allowed to take pictures on store premises as it is private property. I hadn't thought of it that way as it is public access, but he was correct. I apologized and while I was putting the camera away, he informed me that there had been complaints about what I was doing and that I would have to leave or they would call the police. I advised him that I would leave once my party returned to the car.
Thinking that the incident was over, I continued to wait for my friend, but now I had two security guards watching me. One was talking to a woman who pointed my way every now and then. I waited and they waited and it was sort of like a Mexican standoff. My friend came back to the car and we drove off into the sunset, literally, as this happened a little after 6pm.
What strikes me most about the incident is not what happened, but what percipitated it. It seems that some people are paranoid about cameras, whether they are pointed at them or not. And it is not like I was hiding what I was doing or that they where in a place where there would be an expectation of privacy. Or maybe it is that they are ashamed of shopping at Walmart and don't want their friends to know. Who can tell?
This incident has left me unsettled. As a photographer, I feel that I was impinged upon; however, I respected the stores policies once I was informed of them. I also respect the rights of other individuals as I took no pictures with people in them. I think the thing that bothered me the most was having someone think that I was doing something wrong or something that would hurt them. It also bothers me how readily a person with a camera can be singled out and threatened with punitive action for duing nothing more than taking a picture in public.
Rhoyle
Well-known
I think you should have walked up to the woman and shouted "BOO!"
J J Kapsberger
Well-known
Thank you. For standing your ground, that is.
iamzip
Ambitious, but rubbish
Meanwhile, with security watching to make sure you didn't harm anyone, shoplifters made off with thousands of dollars of merchandise inside... 
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
Yes. Very frustrating, and a stark reminder of how powerful fear can be as an agent against freedom. Even in the "little" things, the erosion adds up.
Sorry to hear about the experience.
Gumby
Veteran
You should have offered to call the police for them with your cell phone. That way you might have clarified if a law, or even a "store policy" was broken or if they were just needlessly intimidating you because of a baseless claim of some busy-body woman.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Don't people realize how easy it would be to photograph them with your "phone"? They all seem to have cameras these days! A few days ago I shot a bunch of pictures INSIDE Walmart, no problem. A lady friend was visiting from out of town and wanted to buy some yarn and other things there. I took pictures. No problem. I took pictures of her in the parking lot in front of the store as well. I took pictures of her in the Publix supermarket, Walgreens drugs, etc. A couple of them are posted on my blog http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com ~ not exactly great art but nice memories. Tech data: cheapy Walgreens branded Fuji 400 speed color film processed and printed 4x6 at Walgreens, and I scanned the prints on my cheapy HP combo scanner/printer as is, no color corrections, contrast changes, curves, layering, etc.
The interior picture was metered with the incident adapter on my Weston Master V, the outside shot was the "sunny 16" rule and the film was rated at ISO 250 in both cases. The camera was a Leica M3 with a 21mm f/3.4 Super Angulon using the lenshood.
The interior picture was metered with the incident adapter on my Weston Master V, the outside shot was the "sunny 16" rule and the film was rated at ISO 250 in both cases. The camera was a Leica M3 with a 21mm f/3.4 Super Angulon using the lenshood.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I had an altercation with the law at my local shops a while ago because some well meaning citizen had spotted me in the centre with my camera and rung the police.
Sorry to hear it happened to you ... it's quite a debilitating experience to be treated like a criminal for something like this and it will only get worse I suspect. The government were running some adds on TV here advising people to be alert to anyone behaving suspiciously and providing a hot line to report it to. The add shows an aray of what is regarded as dodgy behaviour and surprise surprise ... it shows someone with a camera.
There is no ****ing hope!
Sorry to hear it happened to you ... it's quite a debilitating experience to be treated like a criminal for something like this and it will only get worse I suspect. The government were running some adds on TV here advising people to be alert to anyone behaving suspiciously and providing a hot line to report it to. The add shows an aray of what is regarded as dodgy behaviour and surprise surprise ... it shows someone with a camera.
There is no ****ing hope!
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Store and mall parking lots are private property. They can tell you not to take pictures when you're there. Go out on a public sidewalk or street and the rules change. They no longer have that right, even if your subject is on their private property.
I suspect that a lot of people call too much attention to themselves with big zooms and endless fiddling with their equipment. Setting f/stop and shutter speed ahead of time, setting aproximate focus, then raising the camera to your eye for a few seconds will probably go unnoticed.
Keith, the only thing suspicious about you is that you hold your camera release end down. Is that to clear your hat brim or because you're already "upside down" there in Australia?
I suspect that a lot of people call too much attention to themselves with big zooms and endless fiddling with their equipment. Setting f/stop and shutter speed ahead of time, setting aproximate focus, then raising the camera to your eye for a few seconds will probably go unnoticed.
Keith, the only thing suspicious about you is that you hold your camera release end down. Is that to clear your hat brim or because you're already "upside down" there in Australia?
Last edited:
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
And don't forget Al ... down here we shoot 5x4 instead of 4x5!
Everything's different in Oz!
fraley
Beware of Claws
Security guards can sometimes enjoy trying to intimidate someone who obviously poses no threat... it must spice up their day. I wouldn't take it personally.
Gumby
Veteran
Yes, of course... technically you are right. But there is a bit of reasonable and rational logic that needs to be included. What is the harm; what is the damage to the merchant/landowner? Probably nothing. What would the police consider "a crime" in that situation. Probably nothing more than trespasss... which is a pretty chicken-sh!t accusation for a store/mall to claim. What other rules do you think the store/mall can impose on their customers... what if they said "no walking on two feet; all customers must hop on their left leg while in our store or parking lot.". Is it reasonable?
People can be weird.
Last edited:
Gumby
Veteran
Consider who they are: generally minimally educated, minimally paid, and with more-balls-than-brains. Almost every one of them will tell you that "they once wanted to be a cop" if you ask them how they got into "law enforcement".
notturtle
Well-known
Could have been worse. I would have taken some delight in being watched by their eagle eyed store security while I waited. Everyone needs to feel dangerous once in a while... darting eyes, occasional outbursts, chewing on the steering wheel once in a while...
Being private property they have the right to stop you snapping, but most security guards don't realise that this has little to do with security and more to do with image right/unwanted media attention, so instead stare at you as if you are the Boston Strangler.
Don't get unsettled by it and if anything, the woman who was talking to the guards about you was the problem rather than the store.
People so readily assume not only that you have nasty intention but that you are photographing them. I do not know why so many people believe that they are that interesting or that the world revolved around them. Its odd really.
Its funny really. How many of the people who stare at you and assume you have criminal intent bother to check the back seat of their car before getting into their vehicle? Its far easier to stare and mouth off. You can also tell your friends about the 'suspicious man in the car park.... 911 coming to Wallmart....lucky to have survived... keepy my eye out ofr his photo if anything bad happens...'
Being private property they have the right to stop you snapping, but most security guards don't realise that this has little to do with security and more to do with image right/unwanted media attention, so instead stare at you as if you are the Boston Strangler.
Don't get unsettled by it and if anything, the woman who was talking to the guards about you was the problem rather than the store.
People so readily assume not only that you have nasty intention but that you are photographing them. I do not know why so many people believe that they are that interesting or that the world revolved around them. Its odd really.
Its funny really. How many of the people who stare at you and assume you have criminal intent bother to check the back seat of their car before getting into their vehicle? Its far easier to stare and mouth off. You can also tell your friends about the 'suspicious man in the car park.... 911 coming to Wallmart....lucky to have survived... keepy my eye out ofr his photo if anything bad happens...'
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Keith, now you have me thinking, the gears turning in my evil mind! Over the years I've photographed most of the major malls in the Miami area for their public relations people. Maybe the way to do it is show up with a Hasselblad or even a 5 x 4 view camera on a big Gitzo tripod, a Halliburton aluminum case or two for lenses and meters, a couple of light stands with umbrellas on monolights for use as needed in store interiors, and half a kilometer of extension cords. Wearing dress shoes, dress shirt without tie, and nice slacks of course!
Yes, a view camera! One time I was asked to depict the beatiful pattern of a newly tiled main concourse in the Omni International Mall, the full length of it, and the only way to do it properly was to put the 65mm Super Angulon on the big camera and use a bit of front tilt and back rise. This was surely not a way to sneak photos yet nobody ever questioned me!
Yes, a view camera! One time I was asked to depict the beatiful pattern of a newly tiled main concourse in the Omni International Mall, the full length of it, and the only way to do it properly was to put the 65mm Super Angulon on the big camera and use a bit of front tilt and back rise. This was surely not a way to sneak photos yet nobody ever questioned me!
camera.bear
Well-known
What I should have done was go up to her and tell her that I had captured her soul and that she could buy it back on Ebay.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I often use a cell phone camera at Walmart shopping for stuff. Send them to my wife to be sure it's exactly what she wants. Never been paid a bit of attention to. Can't get into the store with an SLR, though. A real bunch of idiots.
f8nbethere
Member
The store's response is probably due to the fact that Wal Mart has been sued by several people who've been attacked or had their cars stolen/vandalized in WM parking lots. So, they may have thought you were documenting conditions in the parking lot related to a lawsuit. In true Wal Mart fashion, it seems all the security is aimed at monitoring customers in the store, to prevent theft, but the parking lots are notoriously badly lit and not monitored (no security cameras/guards). Once the store has your money, you're on your own, even though they admit the parking lot is their property. Despite Wal Mart's recent attempts to "go green" they continue to be a corporate bad actor, and I recommend thinking twice before giving them your money.
