Planning on buying an R4X soon. I have a few questions though..

[dropoff]

1. I mostly shoot wides (28-35mm) but i would like to use 50mm now and then. How usable are the 50mm frame lines on the R4's?

2. This is a stupid question but is the R4A an aperture priority only camera or can you shoot it full manual as well?

3. If the R4A can shoot full manual as well as AE why would i want to buy an R4M ? (aside from the fact that the R4M can run w/o batteries / nicer finish)

4. Shutter noise: i shoot in the street and at close quarters. How loud is the shutter? i know this is a subjective answer but any input is appreciated. (I shoot an Olympus XA which is a pretty quiet and i also shoot an Canon AE1 which sounds like a shotgun blast going off).

Answers to any or all of these questions is appreciated. Thanks all.

 

[Turtle]

The frame lines on a 0.58 MP are pretty crappy but usable. Composition feels very remote tho and the 0.52 R4 will be worse still, but usable for stuff that is not going to move and where you are shooting a few stops down.

The R4A can be shot all manual.

The R4m is said to have a quieter shutter by some, but the independence of batteries is the major plus for those that want this.

As for noise I cannot tell you, but it is likely to be a fair bit quieter than a AE1 and noisier than a Leica. Should be fine for street. Might not be so good for quiet moments photographing an orchestra... but....

 

[peter_n]

Welcome to the forum dropoff! 🙂

1. They are usable, just about. The camera's magnification is 0.52x, it's really for lenses <=28mm.
2. You can shoot it in full manual.
3. Because you might not want AE! Why do you want AE? Are you shooting slides? The finish on the R4A sucks.
4. A bit noisier than the Leica with a slightly more metallic sound. I was actually quite surprised at how quiet it is.

 

[dropoff]

thanks for the responses guys. I can shoot manual just fine, i guess the AE would be nice convenience, especially for shooting street. Yeah i am not digging the matte finish at all.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

1. I mostly shoot wides (28-35mm) but i would like to use 50mm now and then. How usable are the 50mm frame lines on the R4's?


Although the “normal” lens portion on such a wide viewfinder is really small, I can focus the 40 1.4 wide open... So I guess a 50 could see some use.


2. This is a stupid question but is the R4A an aperture priority only camera or can you shoot it full manual as well?

You can shoot it manual too, and it's metered manual, and its meter is one of the best I've tried, if not the best. When I do tests using several bodies and brands at the same time, my R4M shots are the most reliable: I've seen this happen several times. With the same scene, some other cameras get easily fooled by darker or lighter walls or backgrounds, but the R4M meters the right way, while some Nikons get fooled...


3. If the R4A can shoot full manual as well as AE why would i want to buy an R4M ? (aside from the fact that the R4M can run w/o batteries / nicer finish)


The R4M is supposed to last longer and accept tougher treat, because it has less electronics, and its shutter is manual only. In general, as it's a camera for wide lenses, AE is not R4s' stronger point, because with ultra wides, sky can make them underexpose.


4. Shutter noise: i shoot in the street and at close quarters. How loud is the shutter? i know this is a subjective answer but any input is appreciated. (I shoot an Olympus XA which is a pretty quiet and i also shoot an Canon AE1 which sounds like a shotgun blast going off).


It's a bit louder than a Leica, but very quiet anyway. The XA is another thing: it's almost impossible to hear unless you are the photographer... The R4M is not loud in any way. It's close to a Leica and really far from scandalous SLRs.


Cheers,


Juan

 

[KenR]

I echo all of the above concerning the R4A. I find that I am unable to accurately focus a 50mm lens at f/4 or wider, but under most outdoor conditions at smaller f-stops this is not an issue. The shutter is audible in a quiet room, but not in a noisy restaurant or museum, and certainly not outdoors on a busy street. Fit and finish seem fine after 2+ years with the camera - thru hiking trips, rain and snow. My only issue has been a battery issue when the temperature was in the 20s; the camera died after it had been outside of my jacket for an hour (but worked fine once I got it home. Since then I have used in the cold without problems, but now keep it in my jacket and take it out only to take a picture.) I would definately recommend the camera, with the understanding that wide angle photography is the primary mission of the camera.

 

[peter_n]

Yeah i am not digging the matte finish at all.

It goes shiny if you really use the camera. 😱

In general, as it's a camera for wide lenses, AE is not R4s' stronger point, because with ultra wides, sky can make them underexpose.

Excellent point Juan! 🙂

 

[back alley]

the r4a was one of my all time favourite film cameras.
i used a 50 without problem but it's not the finder's strong point.
i preferred the matt finish over the glossy...takes all kinds i guess.
it's a great camera for wides, i used ae all the time, just as i do on my rd1 cameras now.
much less noisy than ae1, wouldn't want to use it in church but on the streets no one EVER looked at me after firing off a shot.

 

[Keith]

The matt finish is unnatractive for sure! 😱

The handling of the Bessas is much improved with the accessory grip and for some strange reason the R4A always felt like it had a slightly better build quality than my R3A?

50mm is OK but not great.

 

[back alley]

why is shiny more attractive than matt?

 

[Keith]

why is shiny more attractive than matt?

That matt is just too matt for me ... it's bordering on chalky!

After a while though you finish up with shiny areas where your hands make contact and that doesn't look real great either. 😛

 

[Merkin]

Don't be afraid of the R4a unless you just really think it is too hideous for you to be seen with it. The ability to shoot without batteries is pretty much a non-issue unless you are going to some place REALLY remote. batteries are cheap, small, and lightweight. It is easy to carry a year's worth of spares in your bag and not even know they are there. On the other hand, AE is a really handy feature to have during those times when you need it. As to the shutter noise, it really isn't that big of a deal. If you snap a shot of someone, and they hear it and confront you about it, just tell them that they walked in to your shot. They will usually walk away apologizing to you. The trick is to look like you are paying more attention to the architecture than the people. At the worst, you will have to waste a shot taking a picture of the space the person was in, in order to lend credibility to your lie.

 

[binky]

That matt is just too matt for me ... it's bordering on chalky!

After a while though you finish up with shiny areas where your hands make contact and that doesn't look real great either. 😛

I'm afraid I have to agree. I was so close to getting an R2A as a second RF at the store, but holding it in my hands I couldn't get used to the matte finish. It's "grippy" if that's a consolation, but I couldn't bring myself to buying it because I can't seem to get comfortable with the box.

I realized another thing was that the film door was a pebble-like surface. If you add a black lens on the camera, you'd have 4 different textures! (Matte (top), pebbled (back), smooth (lens) and "leather" (trim). Aside from that, the camera is solid--if I can only get over the matte texture

 

[Ranchu]

Since you asked I'll give you my opinion. I see no reason to buy an electronic shutter when a mechanical shutter is available in the same camera. The electronics in modern cameras are made to the same level of quality as a cell phone. One switch contact gets dirty or wet and it's a brick. Auto exposure is not much of an advantage, imo, you still have to compensate usually. I have a nikkormat with pretty much the same shutter design as the mechanical bessas and it works. I think there's something wrong with the meter, a dirty resistance track or something so I've never kept a battery in it.

 

[gliderbee]

I have my R4A with CV 21mm right here next to me:

1.
50mm frame is perfectly usable for me; the RF patch is plenty clear enough to focus.


2.
You can shoot in in full manual, but it will always need batteries. As for compensating in Aperture priority-mode : there is the +2 to -2 compensation with the shutter dial, AND the lock-button at the back of the camera to lock exposure; to avoid overexposure because of the sky, I usually point to normal grass (or something else about 18% gray), lock the exposure and reframe. Works fine.

3.
Less electronics = less possible problems in the long run, but then, I've never had (and still don't have) any problems in this respect, not even with my OM2 that has a very respectable age (touching wood .. but I am quite careful with my cameras).

4. Shutter noise:
I also have a XA: I don't think even the famous Leica can beat THAT shutter; it's a totally different type of shutter: comparing these is like comparing the sound of a bicycle with the sound of a motorbike; different things.

The sound of the R4A is perfectly tolerable in everyday photography.

Stefan.

 

[Ranchu]

I had not noticed our views on this were so different when I originally posted, Merkin. I didn't intend to argue with you, these are just my opinions and ways of doing things.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally Posted by Juan Valdenebro
In general, as it's a camera for wide lenses, AE is not R4s' stronger point, because with ultra wides, sky can make them underexpose.

Originally Posted by peter n
Excellent point Juan! 🙂

Hi Peter, in fact, it's not my point really... It was an advice Tom Abrahamsson gave me when I was about to buy the R4A... He was right as usual (well, as always!) and I haven't regretted at all. It's a solid machine, and I adore it. Anyway, its meter with my 40 Nokton is always perfect, so I guess the R3A with its 1:1 view must be a nice camera for that 1.4 normal... For my 15 Heliar, the R4A in AE would be a bit of a risk, especially with slide film...

Cheers,

Juan.

 

[peter_n]

Alright Juan, you're being modest here. 🙂 I've seen this advice before, and yes it was Tom A. who delivered the oracle. 😉 But you remembered it and I didn't, so that's excellent too!

 

[Tom A]

Juan thanks for the compliment - but I hope i am not right always! What a boring personality that would imply.
I have probably had the R4M longer than anyone, outside Cosina. I got mine a couple of month before it was official. One reason was that I was one of the people who suggested a 'wide" to complement the R2/R3's.
I still consider it a mile stone camera, up there with the M3 and Nikon SP. I now have a couple of them - one usually has the ZM Biogon 21f4.5 on it and the other one, either a 25 or 28. Both are M versions as I found that with wide lenses - it is easy to overlook bright light sources in the frame and have them interfere with exposure readings.
As for durability - I have never had any problem with either of mine. My only Bessa body problem in 10 years was a R2 what had an erratic viewfinder display. My cameras are not idle - they get fed a lot of film - the R4's in particular as independant of any other bodies(Leica's, Zeiss etc) - there is always a R4 with a 21 in my bag.
Merkin is right, the batteries are small and easily carried - but I am not a great fan of AE - but that's me. For some stuff it works well - but I find it slows me down as I keep looking at the display and thinking"That can't be right" and try to over-ride the meter.
we are going to Japan for 8 days tomorrow and my bag holds a Bessa R4M with the Zeiss 21f4.5, a Leica MP with the Nokton 35f1.4 SC and a Bessa R3M with the Nokton 50f1.1 and 40 rolls of film (mainly Neopan Presto 400). I can always stock up on film in Tokyo anyway (and usually do). From experience I know that I really would not use anything longer than the 50 anyway. I am toying with the idea of taking the 15 - but if needed I can borrow one from friends there.

 

[Merkin]

I had not noticed our views on this were so different when I originally posted, Merkin. I didn't intend to argue with you, these are just my opinions and ways of doing things.

No sweat, man! Ask any question to any three RFFers, and you will get four opinions. Feel free to argue away. Your original post actually got me thinking a good bit about the subject, to the point where I started another thread asking if anyone had actually had any shutter failures with the A cameras. So far, no responses.