froyd
Veteran
Once upon a time, I spent a few years putzing about with an F4 and SB24, relying blindly on the wonderful Nikon TTL automation. That was a brief affair, and for the past 18 years I have skulked in the shadows of the flash-adverse, available light ghetto.
I'm now ready to trip the strobist light fantastic once again, armed with a tiny Sunpak pf20dx.
However, since the time of the F4 I've added a few more cameras to my stable, and the one with the wimpiest flash sync is the one I use the most, the Leica M4, with its blazing 1/65 x-sync. I read about the half-curtain trick, to obtain a 1/125 sync speed, but I think my flash use will be limited to indoor or nighttime use due to the camera's limitations.
I tried to search for examples of flash photography with film Leicas, but all I find are hyper-blasted party shots (white faces, black backgrounds) or Gilden-esque attempts at gritty street photography. Surely people have used flash on their Leicas for more than that. Anyone has examples and techniques to share, or resources where I can peruse examples of flash photos at low sync speeds?
My anticipated use would be for nightime fill (just enough light to pop some shadows, but not enough to dominate the natural light). Can someone confirm if the following assumption is correct?
If the natural light exposure is 1/30 @ 2.8 with ISO400 (typical indoor light in my house), I can set the camera to F4 (one of the two auto settings on the Sunpak) set the shutter to 1/15 and have an exposure where natural light and flash are balanced. If I slow down to 1/8, the natural light should become more dominant, but the slow speed might create the "frozen blur look". If I go above 1/65, the flash will become the predominant source of light, and I'll have a background that's darker by 1 stop.
I'm now ready to trip the strobist light fantastic once again, armed with a tiny Sunpak pf20dx.
However, since the time of the F4 I've added a few more cameras to my stable, and the one with the wimpiest flash sync is the one I use the most, the Leica M4, with its blazing 1/65 x-sync. I read about the half-curtain trick, to obtain a 1/125 sync speed, but I think my flash use will be limited to indoor or nighttime use due to the camera's limitations.
I tried to search for examples of flash photography with film Leicas, but all I find are hyper-blasted party shots (white faces, black backgrounds) or Gilden-esque attempts at gritty street photography. Surely people have used flash on their Leicas for more than that. Anyone has examples and techniques to share, or resources where I can peruse examples of flash photos at low sync speeds?
My anticipated use would be for nightime fill (just enough light to pop some shadows, but not enough to dominate the natural light). Can someone confirm if the following assumption is correct?
If the natural light exposure is 1/30 @ 2.8 with ISO400 (typical indoor light in my house), I can set the camera to F4 (one of the two auto settings on the Sunpak) set the shutter to 1/15 and have an exposure where natural light and flash are balanced. If I slow down to 1/8, the natural light should become more dominant, but the slow speed might create the "frozen blur look". If I go above 1/65, the flash will become the predominant source of light, and I'll have a background that's darker by 1 stop.
dschal
Member
I believe the flash sync is only 1/50, not that it makes a huge difference....
nikonosguy
Well-known
the flash bracket on the bottom of your m, a sf20 flash, and a coldshoe/hotshoe adapter --- nice little rig --- worked great for m3,m4-2,m4-p
froyd
Veteran
Dschal, you are absolutely correct: 1/50 it is.
Stuart John
Well-known
You want the flash under the ambient exposure if the flash will be the fill. For example Shutter 1/15sec F4 with flash set for F2.8 that puts the flash one stop under the ambient lighting. What setting does your flash have does it have a 2.8 setting?
Pioneer
Veteran
So far it doesn't appear that too many have been doing evening fill flash with their Leica.
Dante Stella has a great little article on fill flash. It is mostly about fill in the day but reading it may give you some ideas to play with. You can find it here - http://www.dantestella.com/technical/fill.html
Dante Stella has a great little article on fill flash. It is mostly about fill in the day but reading it may give you some ideas to play with. You can find it here - http://www.dantestella.com/technical/fill.html
froyd
Veteran
Gotcha on needing to dial down the aperture to reduce the flash impact, not just tweak the shutter speed to affect the light balance.
By the way, my memory served me poorly:
There are three settings for ISO400 on the pf20xd: 5.6, 8, 11
So back to my scenario of indoor light. I normally shoot that environment at 1/30 2.8 w/400 film. That's equivalent to 5.6 and 1/8. I can set the flash on f5.6 (auto mode 1) and the lens at f8, but that makes the exposure really slow: 1/4th.
I should have figured it out on my own, but I guess that in my original assumption, lowering the shutter speed below the proper exposure would result in one stop over exposure plus a nice coating of flash. Not the look I'm going for.
I suppose that one alternative to stopping the lens down one stop past the flash setting could be to slide up the built-in diffuser, which I believe cuts output by 1 stop.
NaChase
Well-known
Mark C
Well-known
I think the reason you see so few flash shots with M is because it is such a nearly perfect available light camera.
I did occasionally use bounce fill in bad light situations where I needed to get a shot. This hall had enough light overall, but it was those awful "french fry" lights.
M4-2 w/35 Summicron and Vivitar 285 as best I recall. TX, of course.
Everett and Virginia by Yew Piney, on Flickr
I did occasionally use bounce fill in bad light situations where I needed to get a shot. This hall had enough light overall, but it was those awful "french fry" lights.
M4-2 w/35 Summicron and Vivitar 285 as best I recall. TX, of course.
Everett and Virginia by Yew Piney, on Flickr
Stuart John
Well-known
Try the manual power minimum setting with diffuser up combined with your normal indoor shutter speed and aperture. Just stay about 2.5 meters from the subject. Keep the distance constant and see what the results are. Easy to keep constant distance with a range finder set lens at 2.5 meters and move back and forth to focus. If flash is too much stop down to F4 leave shutter at 1/30 and try that. After a few rolls you'll find something that works.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Pentax 6x7, Velvia 100, DIY lightbox, extension ring, 1/30:
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
I use fill flash a lot, and almost always at slow sync speeds, since I usually want to either balance with available light or at least pick up as much ambient light as I can. Here are some examples, all shot with a Leica; the first was shot indoors during the day. Exposure was 1/30th sec. @ f4, with flash power set to output about f3.5. The second shot was in a boardroom setting, also during the day, but it was a grey day and not very bright. Exposure was also 1/30th sec. @ f4. Flash was bounced off the ceiling to light the whole room more or less evenly, and the flash power was set so that it gave just slightly less than the ambient reading- just to give a little pop and fill in shadows.
The third shot was taken at night in a difficult auditorium. Exposure was 1/15th sec. @ f4 I was trying to balance my foreground flash to light as much of the crowd as I could cover and more or less balance the light with the levels on the stage to the left. Obviously my flash was limited in the distance I could cover- so I used as slow a shutter speed as I could to drag in as much available light as possible so I wouldn't get just blackness.
Fill flash is your friend. I use it a lot, and 1/30th of a second is my meat-and-potatoes shutter speed at dim events. It's slow enough that it will bring in as much ambient light as you can find, but not so slow that you'll get really bad ghosting of moving subjects.
The third shot was taken at night in a difficult auditorium. Exposure was 1/15th sec. @ f4 I was trying to balance my foreground flash to light as much of the crowd as I could cover and more or less balance the light with the levels on the stage to the left. Obviously my flash was limited in the distance I could cover- so I used as slow a shutter speed as I could to drag in as much available light as possible so I wouldn't get just blackness.
Fill flash is your friend. I use it a lot, and 1/30th of a second is my meat-and-potatoes shutter speed at dim events. It's slow enough that it will bring in as much ambient light as you can find, but not so slow that you'll get really bad ghosting of moving subjects.
Attachments
froyd
Veteran
Thanks for the example folks!
Drew, my pocketable sunpak marvel does not bounce, but i still enjoyed how well you balanced the ambient and flash. Gives me something to shoot towards.
Drew, my pocketable sunpak marvel does not bounce, but i still enjoyed how well you balanced the ambient and flash. Gives me something to shoot towards.
mdarnton
Well-known
Get a CTOOM flash bracket--$15 on Ebay--and you can pivot the flash for sideways bounce off walls, if you want. Also, the camera balances well with it. The CTOOM has an end-located hole for Leicas, but also has positions for other locations (but you'll need to swipe a screw from another situation (I bought an Ebay flash shoe side bracket for $2 and stole the mounting screws) to make it work, since the center hole is really a tripod hole and for mounting on camera you need a screw with a long neck with no threads. You will also need to spend $5 more and get a hot shoe cord adapter, both to isolate the CTOOM from shorting out your flash's hot shoe, and to provide a cord over to the camera. The whole mess, CTOOM, isolating shoe, plus flash, makes a comfy handle on the left.
With a middle screw I use it on my Nikons and Leicas with a grip. Here are two examples where I bounced, but off the ceiling. They aren't fill, though--the flash is the main source.
Party by Michael Darnton, on Flickr
Exposure set for the TV:
Billy, TV night by Michael Darnton, on Flickr
Bouncing off side walls, which I usually don't remember to do, gives a better effect.
This is the guy who really blends flash with ambient in the nicest way: http://neilvn.com/tangents/ He's got quite a few examples and tutorials about it on his site and in his books. For instance: http://neilvn.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/flash-and-ambient-light/
With a middle screw I use it on my Nikons and Leicas with a grip. Here are two examples where I bounced, but off the ceiling. They aren't fill, though--the flash is the main source.
Party by Michael Darnton, on Flickr
Exposure set for the TV:
Billy, TV night by Michael Darnton, on Flickr
Bouncing off side walls, which I usually don't remember to do, gives a better effect.
This is the guy who really blends flash with ambient in the nicest way: http://neilvn.com/tangents/ He's got quite a few examples and tutorials about it on his site and in his books. For instance: http://neilvn.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/flash-and-ambient-light/
wilonstott
Wil O.
I've found that balancing flash with ambient light, especially with a Leica, is always a bit unpredictable. However, it's gotten somewhat easier for me. I have two flashes--a Vivitar 2800 and a Canon 299t. The Canon has full manual controls, and although it's a bit bigger and heavier than the Vivitar, it's much more versatile. When I'm shooting color, I always use a colored gel over the flash head; either a 1/2 CTO or a 1/2 CTS. The gels help to balance with ambient tungsten light.
This one was taken with either an M2 or an M4-P, either a 35mm or 28mm lens, and the Canon, and on Ektar, I think. I think I used a 1/2 CTO, and I pointed the flash head straight up. I also cut back the flash by either 1 or 1.5 stops. I metered the portion of his torso that is lit by the lamp. I transferred the reading straight to the camera, and set the flash from that.
This was taken with an M4-P, 35mm lens, on Portra 160, and I used the Vivitar with a 1/2 CTO. The Vivitar only has two settings (high and low), so I had to control the flash output with the aperture. I don't think I metered the scene, but just set everything the go with either 1/15 or 1/8 shutter speed. Flash is cut back ~2 stops.
This was taken with an M2, 28mm, Kodak BW400CN, and the Vivitar off-camera, handheld on a pigtail cord. Shutter speed is either 1/15 or 1/8 (maybe less). Flash is cut back about 1 or 1/2 stop. When holding a thyristor flash off-camera, I've found that you need to keep the flash more or less horizontally level with the film plane (don't hold the flash closer to of farther away from the subject than the camera), because it will either over or under expose. Move it up or down (don't have to get really high or cocked really far to the left either), and angle it with your wrist.
This with a M4-P, 35mm lens, Ektar, Vivitar, and 1/2 CTO gel. Flash is mounted in the shoe, and cut back about 1 stop.
If you're interested in doing this with color, David Alan Harvey is a master at ambient flash on the fly. When he was working with film, he used primarily Leicas, and small flashes (he actually used a Vivitar 2800 for a while).
Here's an old NatGeo page where he outlines his technique:
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0208/feature5/zoom1.html
Also, here is a set on Magnum's site called "Classic Harvey," and you can tell he does it a lot. Also, it's fairly obvious he's gelling the flash, and cutting back the power.
http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&ALID=2K7O3RJT54EL
This one was taken with either an M2 or an M4-P, either a 35mm or 28mm lens, and the Canon, and on Ektar, I think. I think I used a 1/2 CTO, and I pointed the flash head straight up. I also cut back the flash by either 1 or 1.5 stops. I metered the portion of his torso that is lit by the lamp. I transferred the reading straight to the camera, and set the flash from that.
This was taken with an M4-P, 35mm lens, on Portra 160, and I used the Vivitar with a 1/2 CTO. The Vivitar only has two settings (high and low), so I had to control the flash output with the aperture. I don't think I metered the scene, but just set everything the go with either 1/15 or 1/8 shutter speed. Flash is cut back ~2 stops.
This was taken with an M2, 28mm, Kodak BW400CN, and the Vivitar off-camera, handheld on a pigtail cord. Shutter speed is either 1/15 or 1/8 (maybe less). Flash is cut back about 1 or 1/2 stop. When holding a thyristor flash off-camera, I've found that you need to keep the flash more or less horizontally level with the film plane (don't hold the flash closer to of farther away from the subject than the camera), because it will either over or under expose. Move it up or down (don't have to get really high or cocked really far to the left either), and angle it with your wrist.
This with a M4-P, 35mm lens, Ektar, Vivitar, and 1/2 CTO gel. Flash is mounted in the shoe, and cut back about 1 stop.
If you're interested in doing this with color, David Alan Harvey is a master at ambient flash on the fly. When he was working with film, he used primarily Leicas, and small flashes (he actually used a Vivitar 2800 for a while).
Here's an old NatGeo page where he outlines his technique:
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0208/feature5/zoom1.html
Also, here is a set on Magnum's site called "Classic Harvey," and you can tell he does it a lot. Also, it's fairly obvious he's gelling the flash, and cutting back the power.
http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&ALID=2K7O3RJT54EL
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froyd
Veteran
Mdarton and wilonscott: thanks VERY MUCh for the useful links and examples.
The image of the man in his armchair is pretty much what I want to be able to achieve with flash. Well done! If you had not mentioned that you used a gelled flash, I would not have guessed it.
The image of the man in his armchair is pretty much what I want to be able to achieve with flash. Well done! If you had not mentioned that you used a gelled flash, I would not have guessed it.
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
For what it's worth, I recommend using a cord and position your flash as you need, rather than just sticking it in the shoe. I use a small Nikon flash with no tilt function (SB30); I just hold the flash in my hand and point it where I want it a lot of the time. There are all kinds of cord solutions out there, but I prefer solid dedicated cords to building up with adapters. Paramount makes and sells any kind of sync cord you can dream up directly from their website; I have a couple with female hotshoes on one end and the unique sync ports of my M3's on the other end. They aren't cheap, but they are solid and reliable. I also have a couple of cords with PC or the Leica syncs on one end and a household plug on the other; this gets plugged into a little Wein HH/hotshoe adapter. Either solution works well- it just depends on how much cord I need; but anyway, I'd look into cording your flashes rather than just plugging them on top of the camera.
mdarnton
Well-known
Yes! These days a lot of the time I'm using a radio remote to fire the flash. They cost about $20 on ebay, and you can put the flash anywhere you want. Sometimes I leave it in the bracket, sometimes put it on a stand and bounce it off the corner of a room..... anyway, it's lighter to handle and the light is better that way.
wilonstott
Wil O.
Are you using the flash in Auto?
I mean, I understand going handheld and pointing at the subject. I've done this, and it works.
But are you also saying that you do this for bounce as well?
If so, depending on the ceiling (or bounce surface), then the thyristor cell on the flash is reading off the ceiling and not the subject. I mean, that might work some of the time, but I would think that it would produce rather erratic results. Say, if the subject is low reflectance, and the ceiling (let's say its white) is high reflectance, then that would likely lead to an underexposure. Right?
Although it may be a bit obvious to say, the good thing about a tiltable flash head is that the flash meters the scene in front of the sensor, and not that which is directly in front of the flash head.
I'm not calling you out or anything--I think the technique you describe is very useful, but I just question it's effectiveness with bounced light.
Mark C
Well-known
I can't speak for drewbarb, but I did more or less the same thing using a remote sensor in the hot shoe on my M4-2. You can do the same with an older M with a PC cord from the shoe mounted sensor to the sync on the body.
I never mounted the flash (Vivitar 285) to any kind of bracket, just hand held and pointed in a suitable direction. Stuffed it in my pocket or bag when I needed my hand, or didn't need the flash for a shot. The 285 also had variable power that went pretty low if the auto settings wouldn't give you a suitable f stop.
I actually kept the M4-2 over an M4 for the convenience of a hot shoe, much to my regret now since I hardly ever use the flash.
I never mounted the flash (Vivitar 285) to any kind of bracket, just hand held and pointed in a suitable direction. Stuffed it in my pocket or bag when I needed my hand, or didn't need the flash for a shot. The 285 also had variable power that went pretty low if the auto settings wouldn't give you a suitable f stop.
I actually kept the M4-2 over an M4 for the convenience of a hot shoe, much to my regret now since I hardly ever use the flash.