Pop-photo article about M8 problems.

Hmm. I agree with the writer of the article. Now, if only they shipped more M8s so they'd fall on more, shall we say, experienced, hands...
 
Thanks for the HU on the article.

I think they make a valid suggestion when they say: "...Leica should consider throwing in an IR cutoff filter for free whenever a lens is sent in to be digitally coded, or in the box with the newest coded lenses."

This, or incorporating IR cutoff filtration built into all new lenses, seems to be the only workable solution.

Until the bugs are worked out I'll stick with my MP and trusty Elmar.

Ron
 
Gabriel M.A. said:
Hmm. I agree with the writer of the article. Now, if only they shipped more M8s so they'd fall on more, shall we say, experienced, hands...
Click to expand...


I read something at a dealer's that the first wave was for 'leica fanatics' and the second wave was aimed at pro's; but I'm sure they were in no way using their most loyal customers as guinea pigs. I mean this Leica we're talking about.
 
They said, "no recall" but that does not rule out sending cameras back for repair. I wonder if their plan is to slipstream in a new IR filter over the sensor in manufacturing and accept cameras for repair on a case-by-case basis. A recall is probably worse from a marketing perspective, and also affects all cameras. A repair option would probably involve far fewer cameras as not everyone would send their camera in for rework.

It hurts to be on the bleeding edge. In this case, the blood is magenta colored.
 
I also agree with the author of the article, although I feel Michael Reichmann did not realize the extend of the problem when he first published his review.

My R-D1s has a problem simular to that of the M8 with Infrared (not sure to what extend exactly) but I can forgive that in the Epson; it was, after all, the ONLY digital rangefinder available at the time and it was a lot cheaper at 1800 euro's. I just change the pictures with the IR issue to B&W and only in a few occasions really was dissapointed to have to loose the color.
I was planning to sell the Epson and buy the M8 but I'm starting to have second thoughts I must admit. There are some things about the M8 that I find dissapointing.
There is the IR issue and the proposed solution is not satisfactory, will they paint the 6 digit code on my Voigtlander Ultron and Nokton and give free filters with those... I think not!
But also some features of the Epson I really like are missing on the Leica, things like the fold-a-way screen, the beaitifull analog dials and how you can set the iso without getting into the menu... :bang:

I might buy that weather sealed Pentax K10d with a few of those limited lenses to complement my Epson instead of selling the Epson to buy the M8. (or the Canon 5d... if only it wasn't so ugly to look at)

Let's hope Leica comes up with a more pleasing solution though, because I really would love to have that M8!
 
The cost of good filters for every lenses in my closet (multiple bags) at $100-150 USD would add up quite quickly to a LOT of money. At $5K for the camera and requiring coding for lenses makes me think perhaps Epson isn't that bad a choice.

Perhaps ZI will throw us another option.

B2 (;->
 
A lot of people here like to bash 'Pop Photo,' but this article is by far the clearest, most BS-free single explanation of the IR problem I've read to date.

I wish they would have extended their coverage to the streaking and green-ghost issues, even though I'm more confident that these are just chip-readout goofs that can be fixed by a firmware revision (although whether or not it can be user-installable remains to be seen.)
 
Still people do not get that the IR "issue" is NO BUG but was an intentional design decision by Leica, necessary to get to the filequality the M8 has. One that outperforms any digital 35mm files out there.
In fact at another forum there was a thread by a printguru (who makes exhibitionprints for Friedlander, Robert Frank, Leibovitz, Christenberry etc, ) .. who states the M8 files print at large sizes at least as good as professional scanned 5X4. WoW!
Well Leica went for the top...... but that meant ONE compromise: filters for critical colorwork. Well i take them anytime!
Leica made mistakes yes: they shipped the camera too early with 2 other issues: the streaking (which wil be fixed) and a most horrible C1 colorprofile (which also will be adjusted: in the meantime there are working alternatives)
Besides a lot of people call the "keep the need for filters under the hood as long as possible strategy" sneaky and unethical ..... i might agree here.
Open communication about the filters from the beginning would have been better. But do not thinks the need for filters was not long known and hit them with surprise, or the weak ir filter on the sensor was a designflaw!
 
J. Borger said:
Still people do not get that the IR "issue" is NO BUG but was an intentional design decision by Leica, necessary to get to the filequality the M8 has.
Click to expand...


Just because it was intentional, does not mean that time will not prove it to be a seriously flawed desicision. I can see why the decision may have made sense from an engineering point of view, but consumers are not engineers and many of the well-heeled amateur photographers that Leica depends on may notice purple blacks but may not posess the skill to extract all the potential quality from the camera.
 
If it was an intentional design decision then it was a terrible choice and the consumers will vote by their lack of purchase or camera returns. It seems one of the basic requirements of the product, does it render all color accurately to put it very simply, was decreased in priority vs the other image sensor design goals. The example shots I have seen with purple color fabrics are not low use cases where only a very small percentage of the customer population will be affected.
 
Last edited:
If the banding is a readout issue and can be fixed by a code update I will be tickled pink! I would keep the camera as long as I can correct the magenta cast in the raw conversion.
 
RicardoD said:
If it was an intentional design decision then it was a terrible choice and the consumers will vote by their lack of purchase or camera returns. It seems one of the basic requirements of the product, does it render all color accurately to put it very simply, was decreased in priority vs the other image sensor design goals. The example shots I have seen with purple color fabrics are not low use cases where only a very small percentage of the customer population will be affected.
Click to expand...
AGain ... that is because the firmware/ c1 profile sucks ...... i use a different profile and 90% of the pictures color is ok, without further tweaking in PS.
Time will tell if the designdecision was wrong ... but demand is still beyond production-capacity! Also keep in mind a lot of the users never visit a forum .. and is hapily using it without even knowing there are issues.
 
What I find amazing is how disconnected Leica seems to be from their current customer base. These cameras are being sold to some pretty damn serious photographers (pro and amateur) who are keenly examing every image the new camera makes for nuances of color, sharpness, contrast, etc. This is also a sophisticated crowd that will instantly make their findings known via the Internet. How could Leica be so shortsighted as to not realize the calamity this defect would visit on them?
 
I'm not a Leica basher and I could see myself buying an M8 down the road, but I am a little put off by their response to Popular Photography.

Where I would have expected to have seen an apology, I see words like "ideal", "creative" and "big advantages". Leica is in a tough spot, but they've done themselves no favors with their comments to PP.
 
David Murphy said:
What I find amazing is how disconnected Leica seems to be from their current customer base. These cameras are being sold to some pretty damn serious photographers (pro and amateur) who are keenly examing every image the new camera makes for nuances of color, sharpness, contrast, etc. This is also a sophisticated crowd that will instantly make their findings known via the Internet. How could Leica be so shortsighted as to not realize the calamity this defect would visit on them?
Click to expand...

I would make more sense if one did indeed read the contributions by professional photographers on the various forums - most are raves about the pictorial qualities....
 
J. Borger said:
Still people do not get that the IR "issue" is NO BUG but was an intentional design decision by Leica, necessary to get to the filequality the M8 has.
Click to expand...

Colour fidelity is an essential element of file quality, surely? This is true even shooting in b&w, tones will simply be wrong if IR is insufficiently filtered. An individual may like the result, but that's a different question. A camera that cannot produce something close to correct colour has poor file quality, end of story, regardless of any other qualities the files have.

I hope Leica fix it, the last thing I want to see is the M8 failing. Buying additional filiters and mandating the use of coded lenses is a guarantee that nobody apart from existing Leica fans will buy the thing.

Amateur Photographer have a review scheduled for next week's issue. I'll be interested to see if that goes ahead, if it does and AP report the problems I shudder to think what that will do to sales in the UK outside the usual fans.

Ian
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom