Pre-exposing film

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Ricoh

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I’d like to experiment by pre-exposzing colour film to random pastel colours, then shoot it normal. What I need apparently is a camera that will allow the shutter to remain open on B whilst I rewind the film back into the cartridge.

(Details: With lens cap on, wind the film to the end using the film advance and shutter repeatedly, then with the shutter on B, and with the camera lens deliberately defocused, wind the film back into the cassette, under exposing in the process. Then reload and shoot normal.)

Question: Anyone know of a camera that will enable the the film to be rewound with the shutter open on B? I have an FM2 but as far as I’m aware it won’t allow this to happen.
 
You're going to fog the film way beyond its ability to record any detail because the rewind process is so slow. Maybe if you used a pinhole body cap to flash your film but you're still stuck with how to get that double exposure. You may want to use an old folding camera or perhaps something like an Argus AF.
Good luck.
Phil Forrest
 
What about carrying with you a grey card and double-exposing each frame before the actual exposure. I think FM2 has the double exposure feature.
 
Ricoh said:
Question: Anyone know of a camera that will enable the the film to be rewound with the shutter open on B? I have an FM2 but as far as I’m aware it won’t allow this to happen.
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Any Leica M will let you do it.
Pentax K2 lets you do it.
Pretty sure an MX lets you do it.

Why don't you think your FM2 will let you do it? Wind the film, set shutter to B, push in rewind button, push the shutter button and hold down. Rewind film.
Have you tried?

I tested the above with a test roll of film I use to check new to me cameras that I get.
 
Huss said:
Any Leica M will let you do it.
Pentax K2 lets you do it.
Pretty sure an MX lets you do it.

Why don't you think your FM2 will let you do it? Wind the film, set shutter to B, push in rewind button, push the shutter button and hold down. Rewind film.
Have you tried?

I tested the above with a test roll of film I use to check new to me cameras that I get.
Click to expand...
Thanks Huss.
I think you’re saying that you’ve tried the FM2 using the method outlined and it works. Is that so?

I have an MX and an FM2 but was a bit concerned to try just in case it damages two perfectly functioning cameras. I was asking in the hope that someone might know without the need for experimentation that could go sadly wrong.

PS Sometime back I was planning double (or multiple) exposures and I asked the question about a film Leica, eg the M6 I own. The answers coming back, including one from a camera tech, was I’d knacker the M6, or any other film M for that matter, if I attempted to operate the rewind lever (directly beneath the shutter speed dial) and then cock and fire the shutter. Not quite the same situation I know but one slip up could be a potentially expensive repair with the camera away for months on end
 
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Phil_F_NM said:
You're going to fog the film way beyond its ability to record any detail because the rewind process is so slow. Maybe if you used a pinhole body cap to flash your film but you're still stuck with how to get that double exposure. You may want to use an old folding camera or perhaps something like an Argus AF.
Good luck.
Phil Forrest
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My plan is to point the camera at a monitor screen adjusting aperture and screen brightness such that 1s exposure, regulated by the rate I rewind the film, results in a stop or two under exposure.
 
PaulCooper said:
What about carrying with you a grey card and double-exposing each frame before the actual exposure. I think FM2 has the double exposure feature.
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What I’m after is the complete film exposed to some random colours displayed as a slide show with no inter frame gaps. When I subsequently expose the film normally the inter-frame lines should be visible enabling the lab to cut into strips of 6.
 
I think overriding the rewind shutter cap in any decent focal plane shutter camera is asking for trouble. There is a reason that the engineers create this interlock when designing cameras, so that film is not unintentionally exposed when the roll is finished. Just because a camera can do this does not mean that it should be done. Case in point would be every camera out there that has a provision for double exposure. It's one thing to hold down the rewind button while winding the shutter of an old K1000 so you can make a double exposure. It's another thing completely to disengage cocking and firing the shutter from film transport, because these actions are synchronized within the body.
Regarding the exposure itself, you're going to have to stick an ND9 on the front of the lens and stop all the way down, if you want any detail in your original image at all. Consider that you are using speeds measured in thousandths of a second for a full exposure, unless your film is below ISO 100.
And don't give this to a lab to cut. They will hate you. I've had to try to cut bulletproof negs before and I've held the deepest utter disdain for the art students who intentionally flashed their film. I'm not the only lab tech who feels this way. Get a loupe and cut the negs yourself over a light table or your cell phone on maximum brightness. This way, if your negatives from a roll you really care about have any problems or you need some type of help from your lab techs, they will be willing to step up.
My $.02 Good luck.
Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
I think overriding the rewind shutter cap in any decent focal plane shutter camera is asking for trouble. There is a reason that the engineers create this interlock when designing cameras, so that film is not unintentionally exposed when the roll is finished. Just because a camera can do this does not mean that it should be done. Case in point would be every camera out there that has a provision for double exposure. It's one thing to hold down the rewind button while winding the shutter of an old K1000 so you can make a double exposure. It's another thing completely to disengage cocking and firing the shutter from film transport, because these actions are synchronized within the body.
Regarding the exposure itself, you're going to have to stick an ND9 on the front of the lens and stop all the way down, if you want any detail in your original image at all. Consider that you are using speeds measured in thousandths of a second for a full exposure, unless your film is below ISO 100.
And don't give this to a lab to cut. They will hate you. I've had to try to cut bulletproof negs before and I've held the deepest utter disdain for the art students who intentionally flashed their film. I'm not the only lab tech who feels this way. Get a loupe and cut the negs yourself over a light table or your cell phone on maximum brightness. This way, if your negatives from a roll you really care about have any problems or you need some type of help from your lab techs, they will be willing to step up.
My $.02 Good luck.
Phil Forrest
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All good advice, thanks Phil. Having read this I might instead purchase a roll of Revelog, or similar. Certainly don’t want to damage my precious cameras.
 
Pre-Exposing Colour negative film

Pre-Exposing Colour negative film

I came across someone on Twitter who pre-exposes by running a roll of film on an OM1 using the rewind mechanism at a rate of about 1 frame a second setting the aperture and screen brightness of a monitor to induce a stop or two under exposure of random colours, pinks purples etc.

The roll is first ‘clicked’ to the end with the lens cap in place then rewound with the shutter open on B (using a cable release keeping it open) with the camera on a tripod pointing at a computer monitor playing a random set of colours, with the lens deliberately out of focus.

Has anyone done this sort of thing and can recommend a camera or rig that wouldn’t be damaged by rewinding film with the shutter open? A lot of cameras have interlocks preventing film exposure during rewind for good reason. I guess forcing it the way I’ve described could lead to breakages.

Edit: 35mm film
 
I don't really understand the mechanics of pre-flashing, but couldn't you just run through the roll of film as normal, taking one picture at a time of the TV screen, and then rewind the film and shoot as normal?
 
pyeh said:
I don't really understand the mechanics of pre-flashing, but couldn't you just run through the roll of film as normal, taking one picture at a time of the TV screen, and then rewind the film and shoot as normal?
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Could do, but you’d end up with inter-frame unexposed bars running along the film, and registration for shooting a second time would be technically challenging. Better to flash the whole film so there’s no frame bars from first exposure, and then re-expose a second time as normal when frame bars should then appear - if you get the exposure calculations correct.
Things one think about during a CV19 pandemic, and when you get bored taking pictures of the cat!
 
Ricoh said:
Could do, but you’d end up with inter-frame unexposed bars running along the film, and registration for shooting a second time would be technically challenging. Better to flash the whole film so there’s no frame bars from first exposure, and then re-expose a second time as normal when frame bars should then appear - if you get the exposure calculations correct.
Things one think about during a CV19 pandemic, and when you get bored taking pictures of the cat!
Click to expand...

I don't think it would be very hard. Just mark the sprocket hole that goes on the sprocket wheel when you load, and load after a full stroke of the film advance lever. Of course this requires a camera that has shown consistent frame spacing.
 
retinax said:
I don't think it would be very hard. Just mark the sprocket hole that goes on the sprocket wheel when you load, and load after a full stroke of the film advance lever. Of course this requires a camera that has shown consistent frame spacing.
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It may come to that in the end (will there every be an end? I can hear the collective RFF membership screaming!).
I’ve been looking at the Lomo Sprocket Rocket as a tool to this madness 😂 but the rewind would be better served if it had a crank, instead of a knob. Think the knob would be too slow at rewinding, for me at least.
 
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