Fedzilla_Bob
man with cat
What are good prices for Canon 7's, 7S's and VT's?
I am very interested in them and I don't know much about the prices. I also don't know what to lok for by way of quality and quirks. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
I am very interested in them and I don't know much about the prices. I also don't know what to lok for by way of quality and quirks. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
taffer
void
I'd say that US$ 250 for a good working Canon 7 in decent condition would be a good price. I got mine for $135 but the 2 faster speeds needed adjustment and the meter cell was dead.
From what I've seen, 7s's can easily double that price, and even more for a properly identified 7sZ.
The VT seems to go for a bit more than the 7, the $300 range is not uncommon.
The 7 is a great camera which is clearly underrated (cheap) because it's lacking the elegance from older Canons (in other words, people find it ugly though it's not 'uglier' than a R2a/R3a in my opinion...) which ironically turns it into a very good bang for the buck.
The 7 lacks an accessory shoe for flash (or finders!), but OTH, the VT - VI-T has the trigger winder, which may be your cup of tea... or not...
Btw have in mind that almost always you can get a better deal by getting a camera+lens outfit than a camera body alone, dings and dents and names/SS numbers engraved are also your friends as long as they don't affect operation
From what I've seen, 7s's can easily double that price, and even more for a properly identified 7sZ.
The VT seems to go for a bit more than the 7, the $300 range is not uncommon.
The 7 is a great camera which is clearly underrated (cheap) because it's lacking the elegance from older Canons (in other words, people find it ugly though it's not 'uglier' than a R2a/R3a in my opinion...) which ironically turns it into a very good bang for the buck.
The 7 lacks an accessory shoe for flash (or finders!), but OTH, the VT - VI-T has the trigger winder, which may be your cup of tea... or not...
Btw have in mind that almost always you can get a better deal by getting a camera+lens outfit than a camera body alone, dings and dents and names/SS numbers engraved are also your friends as long as they don't affect operation
Fedzilla_Bob
man with cat
Thanks-- I'll be saving pennies and watching the 'Bay.
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
I dunno what to tell you about prices -- that's what eBay is for! I'd say that of the three, the 7 is the least expensive and most common, the 7s is less common and often runs 2x-3x the price of a 7, and the V-T is less common than the 7, more common than the 7s, and seems to be all over the map price-wise.
Quality? All three are typically Canon, very solid and well-engineered. The V-T is older and has more beautiful chrome and enamel work; the 7 and 7s are more like Canon SLRs of the '60s and '70s in terms of finish (good but not as deep and lustrous as the older ones.)
Most variants of the V-T have fabric shutter curtains, which means you don't have to worry about wrinkles. The 7 and 7s have stainless-steel curtains, like a P, which means they ARE somewhat prone to wrinkle (as with the P, minor wrinkles don't affect the function.) On the other hand, you DO have to watch out for the sun burning pinholes on a V-T, which is much less a problem on the steel-curtain cameras.
Quirks? The V-T is an old-tech camera: the viewfinder is contrasty and has Canon's rotating turret for 35 and 50mm view fields (plus a magnified critical-focusing position) but NO framelines or parallax correction of any kind. The 7 and 7s have modern parallax-compensating projected framelines for 35, 50, 85/100, and 135 lenses. None of the finders really measure up to a Leica M or a modern Bessa -- they're not as bright and they have blurry-edged rather than sharp RF patches -- but they're all very usable.
The V-T advances film via a baseplate-mounted trigger or a top-mounted knob, and rewinds via a knob. Both the 7s have conventional thumb levers and crank rewind. The V-T has an old-style rotating shutter-speed dial that you lift and turn to set, with the slow speeds on a separate front-mounted dial. The 7 cameras have modern non-rotating, click-stopped dials with all speeds on a single dial. All these features together make the 7 cameras more convenient as day-to-day "shooters," IMO.
Another difference that may or may not matter to you is that the 7 cameras have a lens mount with a special bayonet flange around the outside; this is used for mounting the Mirror Box 2 reflex housing or the 50mm f/0.95 lens, making them the only Canon models that can use these two accessories. The Mirror Box is very convenient (as reflex housings go) but rare and seldom used; the 50/0.95 is very cool but also very much an acquired taste. If you're going to want to have a go at either of these, you'll need a 7-series; otherwise, don't sweat it.
So, that should help you distinguish between the V and 7 series. Now, between the 7 and 7s: they're basically the same camera under the skin. They're a bit bulky but very solid and beautifully made inside. Both have built-in meters that are coupled to the shutter speed dial and read out via a needle on top. The 7 has a selenium cell and the 7s has a CdS cell; that means the 7 doesn't need a battery but doesn't have as much low-light sensitivity. The 7s is designed for a mercury battery you can't get anymore, so you're looking at using a Wein Cell or an MR-9 adapter (I've tried using an alkaline cell and the meter reading is 'WAY off, so forget that option!)
In either case, though, it's not worth deciding based on the meter; the ISO settings only go up to 400, so neither of them is going to be an available-darkness camera, and it's not unusual to find a 7 with a dead selenium cell or a 7s with a terminally corroded battery compartment, so it's fairly likely that you'll be using a separate meter with either of them in any case. The real difference in the metering arrangements is that the 7s meter is more compact, which made room for adding an accessory shoe on the top panel; this is essential if you're going to mount accessory finders or flash units. The 7 didn't have a built-on accessory shoe at all; instead you were supposed to attach an "Accessory Coupler," which is now a rather hard-to-find accessory in itself! So, if you want to use shoe-mounted accessories, don't buy a 7 unless you're willing to go on a quest for one of these gizmos.
If you're comfortable with the inconveniences of older cameras and love beautiful craftsmanship, the V-T probably will appeal to you the most. If you want a rugged, practical camera that works and handles pretty much like a modern RF, you'll want a 7s, and if you want that but don't care about an accessory shoe and would like to save some money, a 7 will be right up your alley.
Does that help? If not, let me know and I can go on and on...
Quality? All three are typically Canon, very solid and well-engineered. The V-T is older and has more beautiful chrome and enamel work; the 7 and 7s are more like Canon SLRs of the '60s and '70s in terms of finish (good but not as deep and lustrous as the older ones.)
Most variants of the V-T have fabric shutter curtains, which means you don't have to worry about wrinkles. The 7 and 7s have stainless-steel curtains, like a P, which means they ARE somewhat prone to wrinkle (as with the P, minor wrinkles don't affect the function.) On the other hand, you DO have to watch out for the sun burning pinholes on a V-T, which is much less a problem on the steel-curtain cameras.
Quirks? The V-T is an old-tech camera: the viewfinder is contrasty and has Canon's rotating turret for 35 and 50mm view fields (plus a magnified critical-focusing position) but NO framelines or parallax correction of any kind. The 7 and 7s have modern parallax-compensating projected framelines for 35, 50, 85/100, and 135 lenses. None of the finders really measure up to a Leica M or a modern Bessa -- they're not as bright and they have blurry-edged rather than sharp RF patches -- but they're all very usable.
The V-T advances film via a baseplate-mounted trigger or a top-mounted knob, and rewinds via a knob. Both the 7s have conventional thumb levers and crank rewind. The V-T has an old-style rotating shutter-speed dial that you lift and turn to set, with the slow speeds on a separate front-mounted dial. The 7 cameras have modern non-rotating, click-stopped dials with all speeds on a single dial. All these features together make the 7 cameras more convenient as day-to-day "shooters," IMO.
Another difference that may or may not matter to you is that the 7 cameras have a lens mount with a special bayonet flange around the outside; this is used for mounting the Mirror Box 2 reflex housing or the 50mm f/0.95 lens, making them the only Canon models that can use these two accessories. The Mirror Box is very convenient (as reflex housings go) but rare and seldom used; the 50/0.95 is very cool but also very much an acquired taste. If you're going to want to have a go at either of these, you'll need a 7-series; otherwise, don't sweat it.
So, that should help you distinguish between the V and 7 series. Now, between the 7 and 7s: they're basically the same camera under the skin. They're a bit bulky but very solid and beautifully made inside. Both have built-in meters that are coupled to the shutter speed dial and read out via a needle on top. The 7 has a selenium cell and the 7s has a CdS cell; that means the 7 doesn't need a battery but doesn't have as much low-light sensitivity. The 7s is designed for a mercury battery you can't get anymore, so you're looking at using a Wein Cell or an MR-9 adapter (I've tried using an alkaline cell and the meter reading is 'WAY off, so forget that option!)
In either case, though, it's not worth deciding based on the meter; the ISO settings only go up to 400, so neither of them is going to be an available-darkness camera, and it's not unusual to find a 7 with a dead selenium cell or a 7s with a terminally corroded battery compartment, so it's fairly likely that you'll be using a separate meter with either of them in any case. The real difference in the metering arrangements is that the 7s meter is more compact, which made room for adding an accessory shoe on the top panel; this is essential if you're going to mount accessory finders or flash units. The 7 didn't have a built-on accessory shoe at all; instead you were supposed to attach an "Accessory Coupler," which is now a rather hard-to-find accessory in itself! So, if you want to use shoe-mounted accessories, don't buy a 7 unless you're willing to go on a quest for one of these gizmos.
If you're comfortable with the inconveniences of older cameras and love beautiful craftsmanship, the V-T probably will appeal to you the most. If you want a rugged, practical camera that works and handles pretty much like a modern RF, you'll want a 7s, and if you want that but don't care about an accessory shoe and would like to save some money, a 7 will be right up your alley.
Does that help? If not, let me know and I can go on and on...