Ducky
Well-known
You guys have me going from digi to RF to BW to self processing and wet printing. I have even got an enlarger. Anyway, Now I am going to jump into 4x5 LF using a Graflex Crown. I have been processing bw roll film in a standard tank.
I need to know about sheet film. My father did it (4x5) in trays. I will do it that way initially but is it easier in a daylight tank? I'll be using D-76 1:1. I have gone to Rodinal 1+100 stand for my rolls but don't think it will work on cut film.
Any comments-suggestions.
Oh, by the way, did I say thank you for all the misguidance:bang: I have gotten here a RFF?
I need to know about sheet film. My father did it (4x5) in trays. I will do it that way initially but is it easier in a daylight tank? I'll be using D-76 1:1. I have gone to Rodinal 1+100 stand for my rolls but don't think it will work on cut film.
Any comments-suggestions.
Oh, by the way, did I say thank you for all the misguidance:bang: I have gotten here a RFF?
StanSmith
Member
Go to the Badger Graphics site. They have a Jobo beginner's kit for 4x5. It is a pretty good deal because if you buy all the bits separately it'll cost about double. Go take a look and you'll see what I am talking about. However this being Jobo is not an inversion tank so I also get a manual base for it. Just google "cut film processing".
Gumby
Veteran
Oh, by the way, did I say thank you for all the misguidance:bang: I have gotten here a RFF?
Don't forget to hold each sheet up to the safelight to ensure that you don't process any unexposed film!
Ducky
Well-known
Don't forget to hold each sheet up to the safelight to ensure that you don't process any unexposed film!
I didn't mean I got bad advice, I meant that I get too much tempting advice which misdirects me. I should just log off and take up finger painting. . .I wonder if there's a finger painting forum???
David William White
Well-known
Trays work just fine! I've never felt the need to get anything special, or expensive. Consider also that often with sheet film (especially if you've fallen in with the zone crowd), you may wish to push/pull on a sheet by sheet basis.
And if you itch for 5x7, whole plate, or even 8x10, you can still use the same 'equipment'.
And if you itch for 5x7, whole plate, or even 8x10, you can still use the same 'equipment'.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
If you can locate some one gallon hard rubber tanks and some stainless steel film hangers...there must be thousands of them hiding in boxes in garages and attics. There was tthe Yankee Agitank (might still be made!) that contained an adjustable "cage (?)" for 2.25" x 3.25" up to 4x5 inch sheet film, 12 sheets at a time. It was light trapped very much like S.S. tanks but didn't come with a cap for the fill hole. They say to rock it back and forth to agitate but I'd turn the lights out and lift it out for a couple of seconds, repeating the lift and drain every thirty seconds until the time was up.
With a bit of practice you can learn to shuffle a dozen sheets of 4x5 film in a 5x7 or larger tray without scratching the negatives.
Nikor, and I think Kinderman also, made a large diameter S.S. tank to take wide spaced heavy wire 35mm and 220 reels. They made a gizmo that fit this tank to hold 4x5 sheet film. This tank DOES have a cap on the lid so you can use inversion agitation.
With a bit of practice you can learn to shuffle a dozen sheets of 4x5 film in a 5x7 or larger tray without scratching the negatives.
Nikor, and I think Kinderman also, made a large diameter S.S. tank to take wide spaced heavy wire 35mm and 220 reels. They made a gizmo that fit this tank to hold 4x5 sheet film. This tank DOES have a cap on the lid so you can use inversion agitation.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
"Whole plate" is the British term for 6.5 x 8.5 inch film, rarely encountered in North America. 3.25 x 4.25 inch film was fairly common at one time. The Brits call it "quarter plate".
WDPictures
Established
"Taco" method works for 4x5. I have a Patterson whatever model tank that does 2-135 reels/1-135+1-120. I've run a few sheets of 4x5 thru via this method. Takes some trial and error as I've found out with the main issue being 4x5 is quite easy to scratch. I built a 4x5 pinhole so ultra-technical development perfection isn't my goal but no scratches is...
StanSmith
Member
Can you please elaborate? How many sheets can you process at once and do you just let the film taco against the tank emulsion side out?
Ronald M
Veteran
Nikor 4x5 film tank. Holds 8 sheets in a oversized 35mm film type tank. Works very well if you imersse the loaded reel into the tank already full of developer like you are supposed to do with roll film or 35mm film.
4x5 stainless tanks , hangars, and the proper hangar rack to manage them all. Immerse in and out 8 times with alturnate left and right drains during the first minute.
Single sheets in a tray, 8x10 is best, lifting each edge for vigorous agitation. Let the sheet really slop around and clack against the edges, emulsion up. 1/2 liter of developer
Jobo expert drum and Jobo water bath.
They all work perfectly and deliver perfect negatives IF YOU DO IT PROPERLY. Some are more labor intensive, some use smaller amounts of chemicals, all are trade offs for availability of tanks etc or money or time/effort.
4x5 stainless tanks , hangars, and the proper hangar rack to manage them all. Immerse in and out 8 times with alturnate left and right drains during the first minute.
Single sheets in a tray, 8x10 is best, lifting each edge for vigorous agitation. Let the sheet really slop around and clack against the edges, emulsion up. 1/2 liter of developer
Jobo expert drum and Jobo water bath.
They all work perfectly and deliver perfect negatives IF YOU DO IT PROPERLY. Some are more labor intensive, some use smaller amounts of chemicals, all are trade offs for availability of tanks etc or money or time/effort.
WDPictures
Established
Emulsion side in or away from anything that could touch/scratch it. Four sheets of 4x5 in one tank, each folded like a hard taco shell. Rubber bands combined with full load of 4-sheets keeps things from shifting around. Use tank's center column and 1/2 reel on top holding 4x5's onto bottom of tank. I ease up on the agitation to avoid things shifting and possible scratching. If things are too tight or you are too rough even the non-emulsion side will scratch. Sometimes there is still shifting around and/or the rubber bands slip off. Each batch is a bit different.
The minor scratching I get here and there is from my load/unload of the film holders in the dark, more practice required... If you try let me know the results as I'm always interested in improved methods.
The minor scratching I get here and there is from my load/unload of the film holders in the dark, more practice required... If you try let me know the results as I'm always interested in improved methods.
Attachments
StanSmith
Member
Thanks. I am inspired and will try to rig up something like that.
David William White
Well-known
Pardon me for saying, but that looks awfully kludgy and asking for trouble.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I find a Paterson Orbital very useful:
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps how orbital.html
And it's a daylight tank...
Cheers,
Roger
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps how orbital.html
And it's a daylight tank...
Cheers,
Roger
ChrisN
Striving
I use a Combi-Plan tank for 4x5; daylight tank for up to 6 negs. A little messy in use, but quite easy and seems reliable. Slow to fill and drain so best with longer development times to ensure even development.
JohnTF
Veteran
I didn't mean I got bad advice, I meant that I get too much tempting advice which misdirects me. I should just log off and take up finger painting. . .I wonder if there's a finger painting forum???
You have been carefully and systematically led to the "dark" side.
If you are tray developing, you may wish to choose developer/film combinations with shorter processing times, just for convenience. ;-)
The older tanks held a lot of developer, I started out with I think a Yankee tank, and I have the usual hard rubber battery cell style tanks for the stainless holders. Used to be there were boxes of them at most camera shows, and am pretty sure Midwest Photo, or Campus Camera in Kent may have some at reasonable cost if you so choose.
If you use one of those large tanks, and do not do a lot of processing, you may end up tossing a lot of developer.
You may also want to make sure if tray developing that you trim your nails, small thing, but wet emulsions are not up to a finger nail, or the corner of another sheet of film.
If you see any ortho sensitive materials, you might give them a try, and develop by inspection as you would paper.
I have a JOBO slot processor for RA4 prints, and perhaps someone can point in the direction of a similar set up for sheet film, the slots are vertical and would allow a reasonable amount of developer. Great set up for print processing, small foot print. Paterson and Jobo materials have always been first rate in my experience.
I also recommend buying some well made wood spring style clothes pins for hang drying, the plastic ones always seemed to slip for me.
Regards, John
David William White
Well-known
JohnTF has a good point about the deep tanks like the Yankee. If you are processing daily, it may make sense, but if not, you'll need to mix up a lot and then likely toss it if you wait a few few weeks before going again.
I've heard people suggest tray processing leads to scratched film from fingernails etc. but I've never had this problem and don't know how it would occur, unless my cat was doing it! I think tray processing involves the least physical contact of any method -- some of those 4x5 daylight tanks are tricky to load and unload. Also, the emulsions of modern films are nowhere near as 'soft' as they used to be. People squeegee their roll film before hanging it to dry as a general practice afterall.
With tray there is minimal setup time beyond mixing up some developer. Pull the film from the holders and drop it into the tray (I do two at a time only), start timer. When timer beebs, lift sheets out by the edges with the pads of your fingers and thumb and move to the next tray.
One other thing that JohnTF hinted at, and that was the time to process via tray, but look at how much time it would take to do 8 sheets via tank that holds 4 sheets compared to 8 sheets two at a time in trays. With the tank, you can't start on your second batch until you've fully completed the first 4 sheets. With tray, even just two at a time, as soon as you rinse and get the first two into the fix, you've got two more in the developer. It's a constant flow and if you look at the math, it takes exactly the same time.
JohnTF is right about the clothespegs -- film in photoflow is slippery when wet!
I've heard people suggest tray processing leads to scratched film from fingernails etc. but I've never had this problem and don't know how it would occur, unless my cat was doing it! I think tray processing involves the least physical contact of any method -- some of those 4x5 daylight tanks are tricky to load and unload. Also, the emulsions of modern films are nowhere near as 'soft' as they used to be. People squeegee their roll film before hanging it to dry as a general practice afterall.
With tray there is minimal setup time beyond mixing up some developer. Pull the film from the holders and drop it into the tray (I do two at a time only), start timer. When timer beebs, lift sheets out by the edges with the pads of your fingers and thumb and move to the next tray.
One other thing that JohnTF hinted at, and that was the time to process via tray, but look at how much time it would take to do 8 sheets via tank that holds 4 sheets compared to 8 sheets two at a time in trays. With the tank, you can't start on your second batch until you've fully completed the first 4 sheets. With tray, even just two at a time, as soon as you rinse and get the first two into the fix, you've got two more in the developer. It's a constant flow and if you look at the math, it takes exactly the same time.
JohnTF is right about the clothespegs -- film in photoflow is slippery when wet!
Ducky
Well-known
Thanks, all, for the good advice. I expect the camera and film today. I also bought Roger's book and it is due today as well. Unfortunately my g'daughter is here sick and using the dark..oops, the second bathroom. That will, at least, keep me from impulsive actions, I may even read instructions for a change.
Ducky
Well-known
Ah, that explains the warm breathing I feel on the back of my neck every time I open RFF.
newspaperguy
Well-known
Back in the 60's the black rubber tanks (ours had flared tops that encapsulated the ends of the SS film hangers, and tight fitting covers) were always set up in the paper's darkroom. Some flunky, often me, made sure the 'soup' was always replenished.
For personal use, it's had to beat the plain old 8X10 tray system Think KISS.
For personal use, it's had to beat the plain old 8X10 tray system Think KISS.