hamradio
Well-known
Edit: Update with working setup in posts below.
A little freetime resulted in dreaming up a project involving a free Polaroid 340 I couldn't give away, and the cheapest lens/shutter combo I could find on ebay: a 75/4.5 from a Lubitel, at $13 shipped.
The polaroid:
The fairly sad looking lens:
I was going to mess around with attempting to exert some manual control over the shutter of the Polaroid, when I realized that I'd still be stuck with the original lens in the Polaroid beast.
The plan involves tearing apart the front of the camera that contains the lens/shutter, etc, and seeing how much dremeling it will take to make the 75/4.5 and shutter fit.
I think the image circle of the T22 75/4.5 will mostly cover the packfilm frame, though I'm expecting some pretty heavy falloff around the corners. I'll probably figure out focus with a piece of groundglass initially, and figure out a way to lock the bellows at that particular point (unless by some miracle the focal distance for the original polaroid 114/8.8 and lubitel lens are rather close) then use the focus mechanism of the lens with an external rangefinder and VF.
Should be a fun project, once a package arrives from Latvia!
A little freetime resulted in dreaming up a project involving a free Polaroid 340 I couldn't give away, and the cheapest lens/shutter combo I could find on ebay: a 75/4.5 from a Lubitel, at $13 shipped.
The polaroid:
The fairly sad looking lens:
I was going to mess around with attempting to exert some manual control over the shutter of the Polaroid, when I realized that I'd still be stuck with the original lens in the Polaroid beast.
The plan involves tearing apart the front of the camera that contains the lens/shutter, etc, and seeing how much dremeling it will take to make the 75/4.5 and shutter fit.
I think the image circle of the T22 75/4.5 will mostly cover the packfilm frame, though I'm expecting some pretty heavy falloff around the corners. I'll probably figure out focus with a piece of groundglass initially, and figure out a way to lock the bellows at that particular point (unless by some miracle the focal distance for the original polaroid 114/8.8 and lubitel lens are rather close) then use the focus mechanism of the lens with an external rangefinder and VF.
Should be a fun project, once a package arrives from Latvia!
3rdtrick
Well-known
Polaroids are fun to tinker with. There are issues with the focal length and adjusting the rangefinder and infinity stops but you seem to already know that so have fun and post the results.
Pete
Pete
hamradio
Well-known
thanks!
I'm really anxious to get my hands on the lens, rip the front of the camera apart, and affix a piece of ground glass in the back, to see how far off things are.
If coverage of the 75/4.5 is awful or some other odd issue, I'm going to keep an eye out for a something cheap and originally intended for a crown/speed graphic, etc.
I'm really anxious to get my hands on the lens, rip the front of the camera apart, and affix a piece of ground glass in the back, to see how far off things are.
If coverage of the 75/4.5 is awful or some other odd issue, I'm going to keep an eye out for a something cheap and originally intended for a crown/speed graphic, etc.
3rdtrick
Well-known
I have a ground glass from a 3x4 Speed Graphic that I have glued into an old film pack. I have read that you can also use tracing paper. BTW, I have modified a Polaroid back from an oscilloscope camera to fit on the back of my 3x4 Speed... I was actually able to get the film plane lined up so it did not need adjustment.
Pete
Pete
hamradio
Well-known
Got my hands on the Lubitel 75/4.5 yesterday. Would've been nice if the auction described it accurately, and stated it was missing shutter blades and aperture blades. Oh well. I'll keep an eye for some other lens/shutter combo on the cheap.
zuiko85
Veteran
Look out for a 105mm f4.5 Anaston lens on a Kodak Tourist 6X9 folder. It will be in a Kodamatic shutter with B-1/10-1/25-1/50-1/100-1/200 and a ASA post flash sync connection. The great thing is that the lens just un-clips from the front standard and can be reinstalled to use the camera if desired. The lens also has front cell focusing by scale so if you get the distance right for infinity just focus by scale.
hamradio
Well-known
Back from the dead!
The lubitel thing didn't pan out, but I did stumble upon an uncoated Schneider-Kreuznach Radionar 105/4.5 from some 6x9 folder, a few months ago. I placed it on the 340's front standard, and it illuminated the ground glass very nicely across the whole frame. I then shimmed the lens out from the standard about 3mm and achieved proper infinity focus. Things seemed to be working out almost too well...
I had assumed the RF would need to be recalibrated to the new focal length (105mm v. 114mm), which is why I had backburnered this project for so long; it took me hours to adjust the Kalart on my 4x5 rig. However, after shimming the lens yesterday and checking focus on a piece of ground glass, the RF is spot on––or at least as spot on as it can ever be; the front standard is a little wobbly due to cheap parts, and the RF is not the most clear and precise instrument. No adjustment needed. If one ignores the framelines in the VF and just uses the edges for framing, the coverage is about right, too.
Best of all, with the little Prontor #0 shutter, the VF/RF still flips down, and the whole camera folds up, just like it did before I hacked it apart. Also neat: since the lens is also front cell focusing, close focusing can be achieved via scale focus on the front cell. For this, I determined which setting from the lens' distance scale would put a subject an arm's length away in focus, when the bellows were fully extended, and marked it. Simple enough.
I'm thrilled. A pack of FP100c is on order, and I should be testing this thing later in the week.
It looks pretty rough, but I see no reason for that to affect functionality. The only thing this project cost me (aside from the dud lubitel lens) is a couple bucks in screws to hold the bellows to the front standard. If I'm pleased with the Radionar's performance, I may build another one around a metal Polaroid body.
The lubitel thing didn't pan out, but I did stumble upon an uncoated Schneider-Kreuznach Radionar 105/4.5 from some 6x9 folder, a few months ago. I placed it on the 340's front standard, and it illuminated the ground glass very nicely across the whole frame. I then shimmed the lens out from the standard about 3mm and achieved proper infinity focus. Things seemed to be working out almost too well...
I had assumed the RF would need to be recalibrated to the new focal length (105mm v. 114mm), which is why I had backburnered this project for so long; it took me hours to adjust the Kalart on my 4x5 rig. However, after shimming the lens yesterday and checking focus on a piece of ground glass, the RF is spot on––or at least as spot on as it can ever be; the front standard is a little wobbly due to cheap parts, and the RF is not the most clear and precise instrument. No adjustment needed. If one ignores the framelines in the VF and just uses the edges for framing, the coverage is about right, too.
Best of all, with the little Prontor #0 shutter, the VF/RF still flips down, and the whole camera folds up, just like it did before I hacked it apart. Also neat: since the lens is also front cell focusing, close focusing can be achieved via scale focus on the front cell. For this, I determined which setting from the lens' distance scale would put a subject an arm's length away in focus, when the bellows were fully extended, and marked it. Simple enough.
I'm thrilled. A pack of FP100c is on order, and I should be testing this thing later in the week.
It looks pretty rough, but I see no reason for that to affect functionality. The only thing this project cost me (aside from the dud lubitel lens) is a couple bucks in screws to hold the bellows to the front standard. If I'm pleased with the Radionar's performance, I may build another one around a metal Polaroid body.
Black
Photographer.
I'd be very interested to see how this pans out - please keep the thread updated 
3rdtrick
Well-known
I am glad you got something working. I came across a 75 mm Tominon and did not have much luck getting it close enough to the film plane for infinity focus. I think the 105 is about a short as you can go. I don't think you can adjust the rangefinder curve to match another lens. I would suggest setting your rangefinder to 10 feet and then adjusting your lens to get sharp focus there. The hyperfocal should take care of any discrepancies at infinity. If you like close ups, then adjust at 4 - 6 feet. Infinity might be too far off but it is worth a try. Let us see some photos.
Pete
Pete
hamradio
Well-known
It works!
3rdtrick, I think there might be a tiny bit of adjustability in the RF (the non-zeiss one). Horizontal and vertical alignment adjustments are possible, and the cam-type thing could be filed/ground to one's liking a little bit, perhaps. However, with the 105, the RF is spot on.
I took it out and about tonight. It works well, but everything is just kind of...soft.
Having never shot this stuff, I'm not sure how sharp or unsharp the prints themselves are to be. The lens could also be a culprit, or the film not sitting nicely in the film plane, though if that were the case, I would think a sharp plane of focus would cut through somewhere in this photo, which isn't visible anywhere. The sharpest area is right where I focused, on the right headlight. This shot was at f/4.5, but shots at f/8 and f/11 exhibited the same softness. However, the lens definitely covers fine, with a bit of softness in the corners, but I was expecting that.
The softness could also very well be the lens itself; it's missing the proper hardware for the front cell to hit an infinity stop, and is just threaded in as far as it will go. Perhaps this is causing some problems. I'm already starting to plan v2.0, with a metal body and another Radionar or some other cheap triplet, though in a shutter with threaded cable release socket--something this shutter lacks.
3rdtrick, I think there might be a tiny bit of adjustability in the RF (the non-zeiss one). Horizontal and vertical alignment adjustments are possible, and the cam-type thing could be filed/ground to one's liking a little bit, perhaps. However, with the 105, the RF is spot on.
I took it out and about tonight. It works well, but everything is just kind of...soft.
Having never shot this stuff, I'm not sure how sharp or unsharp the prints themselves are to be. The lens could also be a culprit, or the film not sitting nicely in the film plane, though if that were the case, I would think a sharp plane of focus would cut through somewhere in this photo, which isn't visible anywhere. The sharpest area is right where I focused, on the right headlight. This shot was at f/4.5, but shots at f/8 and f/11 exhibited the same softness. However, the lens definitely covers fine, with a bit of softness in the corners, but I was expecting that.
The softness could also very well be the lens itself; it's missing the proper hardware for the front cell to hit an infinity stop, and is just threaded in as far as it will go. Perhaps this is causing some problems. I'm already starting to plan v2.0, with a metal body and another Radionar or some other cheap triplet, though in a shutter with threaded cable release socket--something this shutter lacks.
3rdtrick
Well-known
Yes, even if the film plane was off, something should be in sharp focus. When you get your metal body camera, shoot a pack with the factory lens. It is a 3 element glass lens and will give you something to compare. Actually yoru 340 'had' the glass lens too. I always do the critical adjustment of my rangefinders at 10-12 feet and then check them at infinity. Hope to see v2.0 soon...
Pete
Pete
hamradio
Well-known
Yes, you are correct––this thing did have a glass lens initially. A 250 is going to be at my disposal in a few days, and I'll see if those images are any sharper. If they are, something is really up with this rig. I did take the front cell out and noticed I had a shim wrong, and now have the cell spacing correct. I threw the lens on a lensboard for my 4x5 rig and looked at the image through the GG on it (much clearer, brighter ground glass than I used in the Polaroid test setup). Infinity and wide open is definitely sharp in the center, after messing with the cell spacing. I didn't check the before image. In a few days I'll go make some more Polaroid pictures and see how it pans out. I'm not expecting the sharpness of a negative from this film, but everything I've shot thus far seems a little too soft.
v2.0 is going to have a cable release socket on the shutter, for sure...I'll probably pick up a 100 body and another SK Radionar (or some perhaps a Rodenstock Trinar 105/3.5).
v2.0 is going to have a cable release socket on the shutter, for sure...I'll probably pick up a 100 body and another SK Radionar (or some perhaps a Rodenstock Trinar 105/3.5).
hamradio
Well-known
Bought another Radionar on eBay, attached to a 620 folder. This one is coated, has a Prontor S with cable release socket, and had a slightly different front cell setup, which worked perfectly with a 33mm slip on Series VI adapter. With that, I gain the ability to use a hood, which I've found to definitely improve contrast when shooting outdoors with this lens. I performed a quick CLA on the shutter, and it was ready to rock.
It's quite the ugly duckling, but I kind of enjoy the look of it. It works great, however; I have no desire to improve it further, other than potentially building a similar setup around a metal-bodied camera (100, etc.) to gain a tripod socket. The original red button release works super slick with this setup.
I also reworked the original shutter release cable to thread into a standard cable release socket by utilizing the cut off end of a broken cable release I had kept, for some reason or another.
It's quite the ugly duckling, but I kind of enjoy the look of it. It works great, however; I have no desire to improve it further, other than potentially building a similar setup around a metal-bodied camera (100, etc.) to gain a tripod socket. The original red button release works super slick with this setup.
I also reworked the original shutter release cable to thread into a standard cable release socket by utilizing the cut off end of a broken cable release I had kept, for some reason or another.