Questions on using powder developers and replenishers

[Imakebadphotos]

HI. My film of choice is Kodak 5222, I normally use liquid developers such as HC-110 and Rodinal, but I want to use D-96. I know nothing about the use and shelf life of these type of developers so I have some questions:
1: once the developer is mixed, how many rolls of film can I use if I use the Developer straight out of the bottle?

2: Do I need to dilute the already mixed developers? if so, do I throw out the developer after I mixed the dilutions or do I just pour the developer back into the mix?

3: if I do dilute the developer when processing a roll, what's the ratio normally used?

4 is it good practice to use a replenisher?

On the questions of REPLENISHERS: how many rolls of film must I use before I begin to replenish the stock?
-will I need to make separate developers If I begin to use replenishers?
-how do I judge the ratio between the used developer and the replenisher?
-do I replenish before or after I develop the film,
-typically: how much can I replenish my developing chemicals before the developer is completely spent?

I’m sorry if these questions are basic, but it's frustrating trying to search for a simple answer through Google. My thanks in advance!

 

[Freakscene]

There is a lot of relevant information in Processing KODAK Motion Picture Films, Module 15 Processing Black-and-White Films .

HI. My film of choice is Kodak 5222, I normally use liquid developers such as HC-110 and Rodinal, but I want to use D-96. I know nothing about the use and shelf life of these type of developers so I have some questions:
1: once the developer is mixed, how many rolls of film can I use if I use the Developer straight out of the bottle?

About 4 per litre. If you do them all together you need to extend recommended times a bit. If you develop two in 1L, then another two in 1L, you need to develop the second two about 15% longer than the first to get the same density/contrast.

2: Do I need to dilute the already mixed developers? if so, do I throw out the developer after I mixed the dilutions or do I just pour the developer back into the mix?

You can but you don't need to. D-96 was formulated to be used undiluted.

3: if I do dilute the developer when processing a roll, what's the ratio normally used?

D-96 works at 1+1 but times are long. It is less active than D-76. If you dilute it you use it once and then throw it out. You cannot reuse or replenish diluted D-96.

4 is it good practice to use a replenisher?

The short answer is "it depends". If you develop a LOT of rolls ALL THE TIME it can make sense, but otherwise probably not. If you only want to develop a few rolls from time to time you'll probably find that your stock oxidises and dies. I have used replenished HC-110, D-76 and Xtol in commercial settings, but would never do it unless I was developing at least 50 rolls a week.

On the questions of REPLENISHERS: how many rolls of film must I use before I begin to replenish the stock?

When you start replenishing depends a lot on the volume of developer you have and how much you plan to use it.

I used a method Tom Abrahamsson gave me for D-96 in which you develop 5 rolls at a time and replenish from the start. Kodak's instructions are for 35mm movie film development and assume the machine is adding replenisher continuously and discarding old developer by displacement.
Tom's method:
- Mix 2L of developer and 1L of replenisher
- Develop films 5 rolls at a time in 1500mL of developer
- replenish at 20mL/roll from the start
- Pour the developer into the development tank and do initial agitation
- Add 100 ml replenisher to the developer storage bottle
- Develop
- When finished pour the developer back in to the original volume (Your volume stays the same - if you add 100mL replenisher you discard about 100mL used developer! - although a little less, really, during development some soaks into the emulsion and you never get it _all_ out).
- after 50 rolls the replenisher is used up and it is time to dump everything and mix a fresh batch of developer and replenisher
- filter the solution every 10-15 rolls - it seems to get dirty no matter how clean your work environment is

You need to monitor as you go - it is a constant process of adjusting time to get the right density as the developer activity changes. You can use process test strips to make sure that the exposures are totally constant. The whole system is interesting but a fair bit of work.

-will I need to make separate developers If I begin to use replenishers?

You need to make separate developer and replenisher.

Component	D-96 (tank)	D-96R (replenisher)
Water, about 50°C (125°F)	750 mL	750 mL
KODAK ELON Developing Agent	1.5 g	2.0 g
KODAK Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous)	75.0 g	80.0 g
KODAK Hydroquinone	1.5 g	2.0 g
KODAK Potassium Bromide (Anhydrous) or Sodium Bromide	0.4 g 0.35 g	– –
KODAK Borax (Decahydrated)	4.5 g	5.0 g
Water to make	1.00 L	1.00 L
pH at 25°C (77.0°F)	8.62 ± 0.05	8.72 ± 0.05
Specific Gravity at 25°C (77.0°F)	1.069 ± 0.003	1.074 ± 0.003

Mix in the order given, except that the metol will dissolve much better if you add a pinch of sulfite first.

-how do I judge the ratio between the used developer and the replenisher?

By volume. When you make your developer, draw a line on the container. When you develop, add replenisher to the container while you are developing, then re-fill to the line and discard the rest. Add the volume of replenisher based on how many films you have developed.

-do I replenish before or after I develop the film,

After.

-typically: how much can I replenish my developing chemicals before the developer is completely spent?

This hugely depends on the starting volume. One lab I worked at had a 50L replenished dip-and-dunk system that used nitrogen gas bubble agitation and had been going since Kodak started making Xtol. The lesser the volume the less you can expect from it.

I’m sorry if these questions are basic, but it's frustrating trying to search for a simple answer through Google. My thanks in advance!

No need to apologise. I really think that unless you are shooting a lot of film, replenishment is more trouble than it is worth.

Marty

Leica MP, v4 35mm Summicron, medium yellow filter, Neopan 400 in replenished Xtol:

 

[yanchep_mike]

There is a lot of relevant information in Processing KODAK Motion Picture Films, Module 15 Processing Black-and-White Films .



About 4 per litre. If you do them all together you need to extend recommended times a bit. If you develop two in 1L, then another two in 1L, you need to develop the second two about 15% longer than the first to get the same density/contrast.



You can but you don't need to. D-96 was formulated to be used undiluted.



D-96 works at 1+1 but times are long. It is less active than D-76. If you dilute it you use it once and then throw it out. You cannot reuse or replenish diluted D-96.



The short answer is "it depends". If you develop a LOT of rolls ALL THE TIME it can make sense, but otherwise probably not. If you only want to develop a few rolls from time to time you'll probably find that your stock oxidises and dies. I have used replenished HC-110, D-76 and Xtol in commercial settings, but would never do it unless I was developing at least 50 rolls a week.



When you start replenishing depends a lot on the volume of developer you have and how much you plan to use it.

I used a method Tom Abrahamsson gave me in which you develop 5 rolls at a time and replenish from the start. Kodak's instructions are for 35mm movie film development and assume the machine is adding replenisher continuously and discarding old developer by displacement.
Tom's method:
- Mix 2L of developer and 1L of replenisher
- Develop films 5 rolls at a time in 1500mL of developer
- replenish at 20mL/roll from the start
- Pour the developer into the development tank and do initial agitation
- Add 100 ml replenisher to the developer storage bottle
- Develop
- When finished pour the developer back in to the original volume (Your volume stays the same - if you add 100mL replenisher you discard 100mL used developer!)
- after 50 rolls the replenisher is used up and it is time to dump everything and mix a fresh batch of developer and replenisher
- filter the solution every 10-15 rolls - it seems to get dirty no matter how clean your work environment is

You need to monitor as you go - it is a constant process of adjusting time to get the right density as the developer activity changes. You can use process test strips to make sure that the exposures are totally constant. The whole system is interesting but a fair bit of work.



You need to make separate developer and replenisher.

Component	D-96 (tank)	D-96R (replenisher)
Water, about 50°C (125°F)	750 mL	750 mL
KODAK ELON Developing Agent	1.5 g	2.0 g
KODAK Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous)	75.0 g	80.0 g
KODAK Hydroquinone	1.5 g	2.0 g
KODAK Potassium Bromide (Anhydrous) or Sodium Bromide	0.4 g 0.35 g	– –
KODAK Borax (Decahydrated)	4.5 g	5.0 g
Water to make	1.00 L	1.00 L
pH at 25°C (77.0°F)	8.62 ± 0.05	8.72 ± 0.05
Specific Gravity at 25°C (77.0°F)	1.069 ± 0.003	1.074 ± 0.003

Mix in the order given, except that the metol will dissolve much better if you add a pinch of sulfite first.



By volume. When you make your developer, draw a line on the container. When you develop, add replenisher to the container while you are developing, then re-fill to the line and discard the rest. Add the volume of replenisher based on how many films you have developed.



After.



This hugely depends on the starting volume. One lab I worked at had a 50L replenished dip-and-dunk system that used nitrogen gas bubble agitation and had been going since Kodak started making Xtol. The lesser the volume the less you can expect from it.



No need to apologise. I really think that unless you are shooting a lot of film, replenishment is more trouble than it is worth.

Marty

Leica MP, v4 35mm Summicron, medium yellow filter, Neopan 400 in replenished Xtol:

View attachment 4843672

God you good!!

 

[JoeV]

For those who don’t process film very often and want to use powdered developers, caffenol makes some sense, because you mix it just prior to use. Or, go the way of Steve Anchell and buy precursor chemicals and mix your own.

 

[Freakscene]

For those who don’t process film very often and want to use powdered developers, caffenol makes some sense, because you mix it just prior to use. Or, go the way of Steve Anchell and buy precursor chemicals and mix your own.

Caffenol develops film but always gave me poor speed, large grain and odd tonal relationships. It also stains film but somewhat unstably, and one of whatever components of coffee that remain in the film attracts bugs, at least where I live.

If you develop film occasionally HC-110 is your friend, even if you need to throw out the modern stuff after a few years. Bellini Euro HC or Fotoimpex 110 are the same and are available in small bottles. And any dregs or part used bottles of the old Kodak stuff you can beg, borrow or steal are likely to still be fine.

Marty

 

[Imakebadphotos]

There is a lot of relevant information in Processing KODAK Motion Picture Films, Module 15 Processing Black-and-White Films .



About 4 per litre. If you do them all together you need to extend recommended times a bit. If you develop two in 1L, then another two in 1L, you need to develop the second two about 15% longer than the first to get the same density/contrast.



You can but you don't need to. D-96 was formulated to be used undiluted.



D-96 works at 1+1 but times are long. It is less active than D-76. If you dilute it you use it once and then throw it out. You cannot reuse or replenish diluted D-96.



The short answer is "it depends". If you develop a LOT of rolls ALL THE TIME it can make sense, but otherwise probably not. If you only want to develop a few rolls from time to time you'll probably find that your stock oxidises and dies. I have used replenished HC-110, D-76 and Xtol in commercial settings, but would never do it unless I was developing at least 50 rolls a week.



When you start replenishing depends a lot on the volume of developer you have and how much you plan to use it.

I used a method Tom Abrahamsson gave me in which you develop 5 rolls at a time and replenish from the start. Kodak's instructions are for 35mm movie film development and assume the machine is adding replenisher continuously and discarding old developer by displacement.
Tom's method:
- Mix 2L of developer and 1L of replenisher
- Develop films 5 rolls at a time in 1500mL of developer
- replenish at 20mL/roll from the start
- Pour the developer into the development tank and do initial agitation
- Add 100 ml replenisher to the developer storage bottle
- Develop
- When finished pour the developer back in to the original volume (Your volume stays the same - if you add 100mL replenisher you discard 100mL used developer!)
- after 50 rolls the replenisher is used up and it is time to dump everything and mix a fresh batch of developer and replenisher
- filter the solution every 10-15 rolls - it seems to get dirty no matter how clean your work environment is

You need to monitor as you go - it is a constant process of adjusting time to get the right density as the developer activity changes. You can use process test strips to make sure that the exposures are totally constant. The whole system is interesting but a fair bit of work.



You need to make separate developer and replenisher.

Component	D-96 (tank)	D-96R (replenisher)
Water, about 50°C (125°F)	750 mL	750 mL
KODAK ELON Developing Agent	1.5 g	2.0 g
KODAK Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous)	75.0 g	80.0 g
KODAK Hydroquinone	1.5 g	2.0 g
KODAK Potassium Bromide (Anhydrous) or Sodium Bromide	0.4 g 0.35 g	– –
KODAK Borax (Decahydrated)	4.5 g	5.0 g
Water to make	1.00 L	1.00 L
pH at 25°C (77.0°F)	8.62 ± 0.05	8.72 ± 0.05
Specific Gravity at 25°C (77.0°F)	1.069 ± 0.003	1.074 ± 0.003

Mix in the order given, except that the metol will dissolve much better if you add a pinch of sulfite first.



By volume. When you make your developer, draw a line on the container. When you develop, add replenisher to the container while you are developing, then re-fill to the line and discard the rest. Add the volume of replenisher based on how many films you have developed.



After.



This hugely depends on the starting volume. One lab I worked at had a 50L replenished dip-and-dunk system that used nitrogen gas bubble agitation and had been going since Kodak started making Xtol. The lesser the volume the less you can expect from it.



No need to apologise. I really think that unless you are shooting a lot of film, replenishment is more trouble than it is worth.

Marty

Leica MP, v4 35mm Summicron, medium yellow filter, Neopan 400 in replenished Xtol:

View attachment 4843672

Amazing! Thank you for taking the time for explaining everything. Shame that I can't develop more film overtime. I just tried out D-96 today and I do like the results more than the liquid developers I use.

 

[Imakebadphotos]

Nikon SP, Voigtlander 50mm f2 ultron, Kodak 5222, D96

 

[Freakscene]

Nikon SP, Voigtlander 50mm f2 ultron, Kodak 5222, D96
View attachment 4843735

That’s a nice one. Maybe you’ll have to change your user name.

No problem explaining it. You can always measure out batches of dry chemicals and have them ready to use, then mix just before you need to develop. D-96 does look nice with 5222.

 

[wlewisiii]

I'll stick to diafine. So much simpler 😉

 

[Freakscene]

I'll stick to diafine. So much simpler 😉

Midtone compression becomes problematic in some light/contrast conditions. And it is so-so with 5222. Diafine and Tri-X, now that’s a different matter.

 

[wlewisiii]

Midtone compression becomes problematic in some light/contrast conditions. And it is so-so with 5222. Diafine and Tri-X, now that’s a different matter.

Could be, I have never tried it with 5222 (had planned to so that is actually good to know. Thank you). I used to love it with Plus-X and still do with HP5.

 

[titrisol]

Oxygen is your worst enemy, store your developer in a bottle (brown) and fill it to the brim.
A pack of marbles is also helpful, as you have less developer drop the glass marbles to make up for the lost volume and keep the bottle full

PS: This, as mentioned by Freakscene assumes you'll use your developer within a reasonable amount of time (months, not years)
For Microphen I can get 10 months (I ran out of developer before it got bad) and for ID11 up to a year
I havent used D96 but seeing the responses it seems to be sturdy

 

[Noserider]

I have a few extra words to add to Freakscene's excellent post. I have been doing D-96 with EK 5222 since I lost the darkroom to the Lahaina Fires, I lost my supply of Hydroquinone to make Adox Borax MQ and I've been following what has occurred with the most recent Kodak D-76 (lower activity) so I shifted to D-96. I mix two 1 liter amounts and put in two separate brown Boston Round 1 liter bottles. I mark one with Stock and one with Working. The Working 1 liter I use undiluted, and I usually process two or three 35mm rolls in one 4-reel tank. After I pour the D-96 into the tank I then add 40-60ml of the Stock I liter D-96 into the graduated mixing container, then when development time is complete I pour out that 'used' D-96 into the graduated mixing container and I discard any extra so that what goes back into the Working 1 liter D-96 is 100% fresh 40-60ml of the Stock D-96 and the rest the (slightly) used D-96. I use this method until I've used up all of the Stock D-96 or it turns a bit more tea colored, then I start again with two fresh 1 liter bottle of D-96. I usually do about 24-30 rolls before changing. All my film is consistent and I'm able to make fine adjustments to density and contrast depending on mood or subject. This method I think keeps the benefits of replenishment but doesn't go too long. I used to run Xtol in replenishment and I kept a few 5 gallon batches going for literally years. I don't need that kind of volume anymore but I do like what replenishment does to image quality and I happen to think that since this film AND chemistry are *actually* "made for one another" this specific method of developing is very robust and of the highest quality. (Your own personal film processing skill set is important to the final results of course).

In case anyone wonders, I think the tonality of Adox Borax MQ with EK 5222 can be more dramatic but at the cost of a more grittier grain, like Tom A showed us it is kind of like an older version of Tri-X.

 

[Freakscene]

I agree that Adox Borax MQ has some advantages for still photography. If you like the idea of replenishment, the best approach is to use a PQ borax developer like Autophen. Phenidone is not restrained by bromide anywhere near as much as metol, and times vary much less.

Ilford Autophen

Distilled water (50°C) …………………………………………… 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anhy) ……………………………………………… 100 g
Hydroquinone ……………………………………………………………………… 5.0 g
Borax (deca) ……………………………………………………………………… 3.0 g
Boric acid …………………………………………………………………………… 3.5 g
Phenidone ……………………………………………………………………………… 0.2 g
Potassium bromide ………………………………………………………… 1.0 g
Distilled water to make ………………………………………… 1.0 l
Target pH: 8.95

Autophen Replenisher for top-up replenishment
Distilled water (50°C) …………………………………………… 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anhy) ……………………………………………… 100 g
Hydroquinone ……………………………………………………………………… 8.0 g
Borax (deca) ……………………………………………………………………… 9.0 g
Boric acid …………………………………………………………………………… 1.0 g
Phenidone ……………………………………………………………………………… 0.24 g
Potassium bromide ………………………………………………………… -
Distilled water to make ………………………………………… 1.0 l
Target pH: 9.28

Autophen Replenisher for replacement/bleed replenishment
Distilled water (50°C) …………………………………………… 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anhy) ……………………………………………… 100 g
Hydroquinone ……………………………………………………………………… 6.25 g
Borax (deca) ……………………………………………………………………… 4.0 g
Boric acid …………………………………………………………………………… 2.5 g
Phenidone ……………………………………………………………………………… 0.22 g
Potassium bromide ………………………………………………………… -
Distilled water to make ………………………………………… 1.0 l
Target pH: 9.09

Replenish 8-10mL/roll. This means that 1L each of developer and replenisher can develop an awful lot of film. Modern films with a lot of iodide need more replenishment than films with mainly bromide. The performance is notably even through replenishment. It produces tones that look a lot like D-76, but with better speed.

Bleed replenishment means discarding some developer and replacing it with replenisher, as described above for D-96. You throw away some used (but still usable) developer to aid keeping the bromide concentration down by dilution.

Ian Grant’s info is here: http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/formulae/developers/devPQ-ID11.htm

Marty

 

[wlewisiii]

Reading more about this D-96, I'd be tempted to try it with 5222 on 120 if I had a way to scan 120 afterwards. Le sigh.

 

[Freakscene]

Oxygen is your worst enemy, store your developer in a bottle (brown) and fill it to the brim.
A pack of marbles is also helpful, as you have less developer drop the glass marbles to make up for the lost volume and keep the bottle full

Time is your worst enemy, oxygen your second worst. Even if you do everything right, the developer will oxidise eventually. Hydroquinone can and will autoxidise in the absence of oxygen.